Over 1,100 firearms stolen since 2003

Keelan

This is one of the many reasons i gave up the shooting game.
I am not rich, i only have a part time job, have to look after my son aswell.
To fork out god knows how many thousands ect on security, is just not viable for me.
Im afraid, shooting will only be for the well off, gone are the days of going out for a shot with the naibour down the road, for a pheasent or a fox, its all money money and more money, the biggest rifle, the most expensive scope, binoculars ect ect!!!! How many deer you can shoot, how much you can spend!!!!! No fun anymore!!

Keelan

rrpc wrote: »

I got a contractor to do mine; 17 windows, 4 doors, 4 wireless PIR's, 2 dialers (hard wired and GSM), 2 panic buttons (1 fixed, 1 wireless) and monitoring cost €3300. :eek:

Worth the money

Yeah, if you can afford it????!!

rrpc

Keelan wrote: »

This is one of the many reasons i gave up the shooting game.
I am not rich, i only have a part time job, have to look after my son aswell.
To fork out god knows how many thousands ect on security, is just not viable for me.
Im afraid, shooting will only be for the well off, gone are the days of going out for a shot with the naibour down the road, for a pheasent or a fox, its all money money and more money, the biggest rifle, the most expensive scope, binoculars ect ect!!!! How many deer you can shoot, how much you can spend!!!!! No fun anymore!!

You don't need that kind of security for a shotgun or a .22 rifle. An Infac safe properly bolted to a concrete wall and the floor is quite sufficient. Preferrably sited in an area that isn't easy to find.

I had a particular reason for installing that level of security and it wasn't related to shooting.

sidneyreilly

I understand that the statistics of firearms theft don’t take into account whether or not the firearm was broken/disassembled at the time. Would be interesting to know.

Rovi

alan_simon wrote: »

To get back to the topic, I was chatting to a garda this morning. I won't name him, but he's in charge of Firearms in a significant area of South Dublin. He was saying that the vast majority of thefts are, firstly shotguns and large calibre rifles, and secondly that most thefts are opportunistic. Unless you have a big centrefire rifle or a pistol in your house, your unlikely to be targeted by robbers.

Anyone know what the thieves supposed to be doing with these high powered rifles?
Since the end of active hostilities up North and to the best of my recollection, I don't think I've heard of such a firearm being used in the commission of a crime.

cavan shooter

There is an excellent document which was prepared by the home office in the UK for firearm security. It offers advice on all types of firearms including the fixing of safes etc. I used this document when considering what I needed to do to secure the Firearms I have. Available on the BASC website

This document in the absence of any guidance in this jurisdiction can be sited as best practice. I read and know of guys that have Fort Knox style security and then there are guys who have basic set ups, yet both have center fire calibers the weakest link in the chain being a Superintendent that doesn't know what he needs or requires.

I have a modern alarm which is monitored (it rings me and my neighbour or whoever if I desire) This was put in because I have an office in the house not because of firearms

Any other bits I got from the above mentioned handbook.

I asked the guard to pay me avisit and advise on house security (because of my office) and he was well impressed even after the disclosure of the firearms etc.

I had demonstrated that I had secured my firearms to a reasonable standard. And f I remember rightly you have to take reasonable steps to secure your firearm, Thats all......

sidneyreilly

Rovi wrote: »

Anyone know what the thieves supposed to be doing with these high powered rifles?
Since the end of active hostilities up North and to the best of my recollection, I don't think I've heard of such a firearm being used in the commission of a crime.

Indeed. A sawn off .243 would be an odd tool! Was there not an incident in Limerick a few months back where some geebags fired on gards with a c/f rifle? Am open to correction

P.s. did you buy anything in the end last night Rovi?

Rovi

sidneyreilly wrote: »

Indeed. A sawn off .243 would be an odd tool! Was there not an incident in Limerick a few months back where some geebags fired on gards with a c/f rifle? Am open to correction

Wouldn't surprise me, but I don't recollect hearing about that.

sidneyreilly wrote: »

P.s. did you buy anything in the end last night Rovi?

Nah. One of the lads I was with bought an Ingram M11, with which we destroyed his new Golden Pages when we got back to his house later

In case anyone's wondering we're talking about airsoft at the Toys for Big Boys show, here's a thread on it over in Airsoft/Paintball:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055179266

bunny shooter

I paid and dealt with Eircom Phonewatch €1200 and a contractor/agent did the work

fishdog

RRPC:

My monitoring company will only ring the Gardai when both the perimeter and internal systems trigger. In other words they need a door/window activation and a PIR activation.

Correct a "dual activation" is required before they are allowed to call the Gardai. This reduces false alarms, but also means valuable time is lost before the Gardai are called. Also if the intruder manages to anly activate only one device the gardai will not be called, thus reducing security. This measure was brought in because the Gardai lost so much time responding to false alarms.

RRPC:

They are extremely quick to call me when there is an activation. I have yet only once been able to phone them before they phoned me about an activation and I had to run and speed dial their number.

Yet they will always be slower than if the alarm were to ring you directly!!

When a monitored alarm activates it is programed not to call the monitoring station for assistance immediately (it must sound for 30 seconds before attempting to call out), otherwise it would be against regulations.

Alarms not connected to monitoring stations do not have to comply with monitoring station regulations. This means that once they activate they can phone for assistance immediately, meaning you the owner know about it before a monitoring station could. Furthermore you need not wait for a second activation to call the Gardai!!

Quicker, more secure and cheaper.

The money saved could be spent on a GSM module that are now reduced to €200 (price I was quoted from Borsatec, Finglas Ind. Est.). This until enables an alarm to phone out without the need fo a phone line.

meathstevie

I might sound a bit of the mark but where I'm living a monitored alarm or no alarm at all isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. Let me explain : our local garda station is part time, assume that at the time of a break in there's no presence. So the alarm activates, at least 30 seconds go by, Eircom or whoever rings the house, they get a negative or no response to their call. At this stage 2 maybe 3 minits are gone while the burglar with a powerfull anglegrinder has been working away. The Garda 10 mile down the road get the call from the monitoring center. They're not exactly the biggest station in the country either so let's assume their patrol units are temporarily tied up with other stuff and need at least another 2 to 3 minits to respond and get rolling for an optimistic 10 minit drive. So realisticly speaking about 15 to 20 minits at least have gone by. More than plenty for an experienced burglar to open a gun cabinet and get away...And as for an ordinary alarm, no on gives a damn about them anymore anyway.

Basicly what I do is the following, the bulky parts of the firarms are in the safe and a good few bits and bobs are hidden all over the house. End result is that the guy who gets in the safe makes his way down the road with a few expensive bits of firewood, scrap metal and a lovely telescope for spying on the neighbours... . That's when they come through the front door that is, I wouldn't chance the slightly territorial collie out the back.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

Alarms not connected to monitoring stations do not have to comply with monitoring station regulations. This means that once they activate they can phone for assistance immediately, meaning you the owner know about it before a monitoring station could. Furthermore you need not wait for a second activation to call the Gardai!!

And if it's a false activation you won't know either. So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.

meathstevie wrote:

The Garda 10 mile down the road get the call from the monitoring center. They're not exactly the biggest station in the country either so let's assume their patrol units are temporarily tied up with other stuff and need at least another 2 to 3 minits to respond and get rolling for an optimistic 10 minit drive. So realisticly speaking about 15 to 20 minits at least have gone by. More than plenty for an experienced burglar to open a gun cabinet and get away...

That's if you have an ordinary gun cabinet

All the while your alarm is screaming and they don't know if the nearest patrol car is 20 minutes, 10 minutes or 1 minute away, or if a posse of neighbours is on the way, so I'd prefer to have the alarm rather than trust in a safe alone.

E. Fudd

rrpc wrote: »

And if it's a false activation you won't know either. So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.


But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

fishdog

rrpc wrote: »

And if it's a false activation you won't know either.

A properly installed alarm should not have false activations (in general). However dual activation is still an option in the program if you require it. The difference is you have a choice if you are not using a monitoring station!!

That's if you have an ordinary gun cabinet

Great idea installing a great gun cabinet, but nothing to do with the alarm system

I'd prefer to have the alarm rather than trust in a safe alone.

Very sensible. No one suggested alarms are not a good investment. They are. I am suggesting that being hooked to a monitoring station is not all it is cracked up to be.

So you could conceivably call the Gardai out for a false alarm.

Just as monitoring stations have done in the past and still do! this is why the Gardai insist on dual activation.

Rovi

E. Fudd wrote: »

But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

That's why they have to wait for a second activation before calling the Gardai, and why the Gardai won't respond to single activations called in by anyone other than the owner.

rrpc

E. Fudd wrote: »

But sure the monitoring company won't know if it's a false alarm either!

This is what happens when you quote . fishdog was saying that you didn't have to wait for a second activation to ring the Gardai. The point of a second activation is that you have a perimeter activation followed by an internal (PIR) activation. Very strong possibility of a break-in in those circumstances, and that's when the monitoring station rings the Gardai.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

A properly installed alarm should not have false activations (in general). However dual activation is still an option in the program if you require it. The difference is you have a choice if you are not using a monitoring station!!

False activations aren't all due to faulty alarms. The majority are faulty memories (can't remember the pin ), or forgetting to close a door properly and the wind catches it, etc. etc.

Great idea installing a great gun cabinet, but nothing to do with the alarm system

I was replying to meathstevie

Very sensible. No one suggested alarms are not a good investment. They are. I am suggesting that being hooked to a monitoring station is not all it is cracked up to be.

It's not, but it's what the Gardai are looking for.

fishdog

Remember the dual activation is an option if you are not connected to a monitoring station. It is not an option if you are. A fiearms owner's alarm goes off on a single activation and they ring the Gardai and explain what they have you can be sure they will turn up pronto!!

They also have the option of having the alarm programed to ring out immediatley, not 30 seconds after activation. This way they know before a monitoring station would. Bear in mind the monitoring station still has to phone the key holders.

fishdog

It's not, but it's what the Gardai are looking for.

That depends on where you live.

False activations aren't all due to faulty alarms. The majority are faulty memories (can't remember the pin ), or forgetting to close a door properly and the wind catches it, etc. etc.

You are correct. Forgeting the code will still cause the alarm to ring out either way. Just because an alarm is not connected to a monitoring station dose not mean that is more prone to false alarms. It means you have more options!

I was replying to meathstevie

Sorry!

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

Remember the dual activation is an option if you are not connected to a monitoring station. It is not an option if you are. A fiearms owner's alarm goes off on a single activation and they ring the Gardai and explain what they have you can be sure they will turn up pronto!!

I personally wouldn't phone the Gardai on a single activation. If it was false, I'd be afraid of the 'crying wolf' syndrome.

They also have the option of having the alarm programed to ring out immediatley, not 30 seconds after activation. This way they know before a monitoring station would. Bear in mind the monitoring station still has to phone the key holders.

I agree that it incorporates a delay in the system, in practice I seem to get the call very very quickly after an activation. I've never timed it, but it seems quicker than 30 seconds.

E. Fudd

rrpc wrote: »

This is what happens when you quote . fishdog was saying that you didn't have to wait for a second activation to ring the Gardai. The point of a second activation is that you have a perimeter activation followed by an internal (PIR) activation. Very strong possibility of a break-in in those circumstances, and that's when the monitoring station rings the Gardai.

Apologies! Silly me!!:D

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

That depends on where you live.

I don't believe anyone with a pistol licence hasn't had to have a monitored alarm. There may be some that do, but I've not heard of any.

You are correct. Forgeting the code will still cause the alarm to ring out either way. Just because an alarm is not connected to a monitoring station dose not mean that is more prone to false alarms. It means you have more options!

But they all come down to "Do I phone the Gardai or not?"

fishdog

I don't believe anyone with a pistol licence hasn't had to have a monitored alarm. There may be some that do, but I've not heard of any.

Off the top of my head I could name 6. If I asked around, even more I suspect.

But they all come down to "Do I phone the Gardai or not?"

True. But if two sensos go off I will ring them. If one goes off I will "call a friend" at the very least.

cantona

Had house that had a system but out of commission.
Got alarm refurbished with extra sensors and two safes alarmed with dialer to monitoring company COST €600

Monitoring Company (per year) was €125+VAT now€145+VAT €170

Applied for F/B pistol including photos, certs of alarm etc
Passed for pistol subject to inspection of alarm
Rang Crime Prevention Officer for inspection.
Told on phone, inspection not necessary due to paperwork and photos submitted.My specs were way above what was necessary(Inner city Dublin)

Next door house broken into and next day while at work my alarm goes off. Working 5 miles away from house so when I get text from alarm system and call from monitoring company, call garda station which is 1000 yds from my house and explain next door's break-in and my alarm activation, and that I am on the way and there are firearms in house.

RESULT: Give us a call when you get there and let us know if everything is ok

As it was it was a false alarm because next door was getting new front door(old one kicked in) and the Kango Hammer set off some of my sensors.

GARDA GUIDELINES FOR ALARMS.

Must have 2 zone system before Garda roll-out
Three false alarms in three months = Suspension from Garda reponse, and to be re-admitted, must prove system upgraded and that you have been re-educated.
Details on Garda website but cannot lay hands on link at moment. Will post when I find


My present system texts 5 people about alarm(4 of which work within 1 minute of house), rings alarm monitoring company. My company gives me the choice of what action to take on alarm activation (i.e. ring guards, fire-brigade etc and on what grounds (i.e 1 alarm or 2 zone activation etc)


Much cheaper than Eircom, which I believe is something like €40 per month.

PM me for name of company and contact details

cantona

http://www.garda.ie/angarda/pub/intruder_alarm_policy.doc

Kryten

Nice of you guys to educate any potential gun theifs reading this post to the ins an outs of the Phonewatch alarm systems and the expected Garda response.

Ideally I would like to see the Gardai take alarm activations more seriously when firearms are involved.

Secrecy is the best security. Not always possible when you have rifles or shotguns and live in a built up area with plenty of people around. Thats the beauty of pistols. You could be putting a sports bag in the car, going to the gym. Nobody is the wiser.

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

cantona

My reply was not to highlight or lowlight alarm systems but to highlight the discrepency/unjustness/unlawfullness/double dealing-standards of the present system.

They require you to have an up-to date/expensive alarm system that alerts them to a break-in, but they will not re-act to the alarm unless YOU arrive first and go in and check that all is o.k.

What have you paid for, not just in the alarm but also in your tax(which pays their wages).

Last year in the States, landmark Supreme Court decision, police not paid to prevent crime only to investigate it.

Is this the way we want to go?

E. Fudd

Kryten wrote: »

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

We never said we wouldn't tow the line with what the crime prevention officer wanted.:D We were only discussing the various requirements of various crime prevention officers and the merits of these requirements.
I agree with you though that secrecy is one of the best methods for prevention and I think all of us here have the common sense to have at least a good safe and security system installed, regardless of whether or not we've been told we need it or not.

fred funk }{

Some info for you guys.

When a monitored alarm is being set up, a URN form (unique reference number) is filled out. This form asks direction to premises, hazards that could impede garda, ANY FIRE ARMS, general info about the premises. This info is displayed to the guards when they are called out to the alarm. Basically, the Guards know that there's firearms present and what hazards they are likely to meet.

'Duel activation' is known as 'alarm verification' in the alarm business, any concerns regarding delays is easily fixed, we put two detectors on each window/door, each a different zone. So when the intruder enters there is an instant verified alarm (no 30 sec delay).

I would also question the fact that the guards are responding to peoples alarms on the basis that their DIY alarm has phoned them and they then phone the police. Maybe if you know a few guards in your locality then maybe but this certainly doesn't apply to everyone.

The monitoring company will contact the keyholders on the first activation
If there is a verified alarm the gaurds are called for and the keyholder must be on the way too. The idea is to let the gaurds into the premises to check it out.

fishdog

I would also question the fact that the guards are responding to peoples alarms on the basis that their DIY alarm

Not connected to monitoring station does not autmaticaly mean DIY

All of the main alarm makes can be connected to either a monitoring station or to phone and or text people.