Over 1,100 firearms stolen since 2003

fishdog

there is an instant verified alarm (no 30 sec delay).

When there is a verified alarm there is no delay in the alarm sounding, but there is a delay however there is a delay of 30 second before the panel looks for a dial tone to start ringing out. This is a condition for connecting to a monitoring station.

Best to toe the line with what your crime prevention officer wants. Good or Bad! If the worst happens and you are broken in to, rest assured that you have done your bit!

I agree 100%. I have personally demonstrated an alarm system I installed to a crime prevention officer that agreed to grant a FAC to the home owner if he was satisfied with the alarm system. He said the alarm system of a higher standard than he required. It has never been connected to a monitoring station. I programed it to phone my mobile for the demonstration.
(This was before the PSA made it an offence for me to install alarm systems).

BTW a potential intruder has no way of knowing if a premises is monitored by a monitoring station, or by phoning/texting people or monitored at all.

fred funk }{

fishdog wrote: »

Not connected to monitoring station does not autmaticaly mean DIY

All of the main alarm makes can be connected to either a monitoring station or to phone and or text people.

I think you missed my point Fishdog, of course an alarm isn't automatically a DIY if it's not monitored. I'm concerned with the fact that in order for us alarm company's to install monitored alarms we have to be licenced and we have to be certified. This is to in part ensure that customers are protected and the alarms are installed properly and wont false alarm.


If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

You may be competent at installing alarms but most people are not.

fishdog

If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

What did I do?? I have not encouraged anyone to install an alarm themselves. An alarm that is not connected to a monitoring center in not automaticaly less reliable. All of the parts are made by the same people.

You may be competent at installing alarms but most people are not.

I am, but I dont do it anymore.

I'm concerned with the fact that in order for us alarm company's to install monitored alarms we have to be licenced and we have to be certified

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

chem

fishdog wrote: »

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

It also means that the cost of a standard house alarm has jumped from €600-800 to over €1000

Do you need a phone line to get an alarm to text your phone? and what is the cost of the equipment for a text alert alarm?

chem

just thinking. 1,100 stole from 2003. Now in the greater picture that is not massive amount. I know that if it was used in a crime its one to many stolen! But how many firearms from 05 to presant has opperation anvil removed from the streets?

Id say its alot more then 1,100 and alot of what anvil have found are semi auto assault rifles and state of the art semi auto pistols, that have been givin as "sweetners" in drug shippments. Are there any stats on stolen weapons been used in crimes?

Also i note that there seems to be an EU wide crack down on legaly firearms. I looked up several european countries names followed by GUN LAWS on the net. Most if not all searchs come back with _______ tightens gun laws.

England has even gone as far as making replica firearms illegal to sell! The met police are also calling for the EU wide ban on blank fire weapons as they say they can be converted to live fire. Same old same old but I feel like it might be a push by the EU to restrict weapons held by the average EU population.

fred funk }{

I'm posting to try give some info regarding monitored alarms. I'm not here to argue with anyone.

This means paying a fee to PSA & (NSAI or similar) and passing a background check. I does not require a qualification. There is no official qualification that makes someone an "alarm engineer".

All alarms that I install are to a certain standard, the NSAI randomly inspect my installation annually. They have to meet a certain criteria. I have been vetted by the guards, tax cleared. We have huge criteria we must abide to.

What did I do?? I have not encouraged anyone to install an alarm themselves. An alarm that is not connected to a monitoring center in not automaticaly less reliable. All of the parts are made by the same people.

Not the equipment, the people installing.

It also means that the cost of a standard house alarm has jumped from €600-800 to over €1000

Yes, unfortunately it has increased but not to that extent.

fishdog

If everybody decided to do what you did the guards would be getting called out for a lot of false alarms.

Please explain. What did I do?

All alarms that I install are to a certain standard, the NSAI randomly inspect my installation annually

I am sure your alarms are. Some are not. How many members have the NSAI thown out for breaking regulations? Last time I checked it was less than one! What qualifications do the NSAI look for other? When I asked, none!

Not the equipment, the people installing.

There are many qualified electricians who have spent 4 years training to get an internationally regognised qualification. They would have no problem installing alarm systems, but for most it is now an offence unless they pay vast sums of money to the NSAI (or similar) and the PSA. On the other hand you have people who have done a 1 day course on installing alarms that have the neck to tell electricians how they are the only ones "qualified" to install alarms. The same people often call themselves "alarm engineers".

Engineer = huge hourly rate + large call out charge

Making it illegal for people that refuse to pay the PSA to install alarm systems there is less competition and more overheads for alarm companies driving prices up and standards down. Eddie Hobbs wrote about this in the Cork Examiner.

Very few alarm installers are electricians. Having a non electrician connecting anything (including an alarm panel) to your distribution board (fuse board) makes the electrical completion certificate for your house null and void (ask RECI). I have seen some very dangerous connections made to connect alarm panels carried out by "alarm engineers" making the premises far less secure!!

Do you need a phone line to get an alarm to text your phone? and what is the cost of the equipment for a text alert alarm?

No you dont. It takes a SIM card (pay as you go is perfect IE no rent). Very easy to connect (comes with instructions). As far as I remember €200 from Borsatec, Finglas Ind Est. This will make an alarm system using only a phone line far more secure.

rrpc

fishdog wrote: »

There are many qualified electricians who have spent 4 years training to get an internationally regognised qualification. They would have no problem installing alarm systems, but for most it is now an offence unless they pay vast sums of money to the NSAI (or similar) and the PSA. On the other hand you have people who have done a 1 day course on installing alarms that have the neck to tell electricians how they are the only ones "qualified" to install alarms. The same people often call themselves "alarm engineers".

I can't speak for alarms Fishdog, but I do a lot of work with network installations, and in over ten years I have yet to see a CAT5 installation by an electrician that was done correctly.

A few of the errors were relatively minor, many of them required hours of work to rectify and some were completely useless as in the entire building had to be rewired.

This was all work done by RECI or ECSSA registered electricians. As a result I have absolutely no faith in an electrician carrying out this kind of work and yet they continue to do it and maintain they are qualified to do so.

I have also seen alarm systems installed by electricians (before the change in the law) that just do not work. Not meaning faulting or partially working, but completely inoperative. My belief is that where there is no responsibility to finalise the work and test to ensure proper operation, then invariably it is not done correctly.

That's my experience. Not a generalisation or an extrapolation of something people have told me, but direct experience through my own work.

fishdog

I can't speak for alarms Fishdog, but I do a lot of work with network installations, and in over ten years I have yet to see a CAT5 installation by an electrician that was done correctly.

I would agree. It takes a different type of training than most electricians get. I have been working in the industry for over 15 years.

This was all work done by RECI or ECSSA registered electricians.

I know, you have a point. However to be a RECI or ECSSA electrician you must have completed & passed a full time 4 year FAS approved apprenticeship. You could not fail to learn something! Whereas the PSA and NSAI require no formal qualification at all. Yet the customer is charged a similar rate.

As a result I have absolutely no faith in an electrician carrying out this kind of work

I agree they should get special training for this type of work. Just as alarm installers should have real and recognised qualifications to alarm houses containing firearms!!
However I am sure you agree that only an electrician should work on mains voltage and connect an alarm panel to a distribution board. I dont think it is good enough to have people alarming houses that contain firearms having no formal qualifications. I think the PSA and NSAI should insist on it. I feel that customers are being charged as if they were employing trained, and qualified experts. Being a member of the PSA does not ensure this. You are trusting these people to protect you firearms!! Based on what??

My belief is that where there is no responsibility to finalise the work and test to ensure proper operation, then invariably it is not done correctly.

I agree. I dont think that we have a proper system in place at present. All of the information I have posted so far is easily obtained by potential intruders on the internet etc. There are many things that I will not say here that concern me about the installation methods of alarm systems that meet current standards.

That's my experience

Similar to mine.