UK Admit Immigration Figures are wrong are we wrong to?

zexstream

Today the Uk admitted immigration figures it had been throwing at oposition parties to justify the benefits of immigration are wrong.

In a amazing stance the Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has apologised after it emerged that government figures on foreign workers were underestimated by 300,000.

This creates all sorts of issues such as not being correctlly able to judge the amount of houses needed to be built, School places, Hospital places and Employment for everyone.

Even more so that If the UK Government have got the origional figure wrong how do we know thet have got the revised figure wrong.

The extra 300,000 was found after analysis of the Labour Force Survey, which is compiled by the Office for National Statistics, showed 8% of the UK's 29.1m workforce was foreign.

The Labour Goverment had been known in the Past to boast about Job creation since it came to power in 1997. It questions on how many of the 2.7m jobs created since Labour came to power in 1997 have gone to British workers.

It had been said 2m had gone to British workers, but the government has admitted that was now "not technically accurate".

Home Secretary Ms Smith told the BBC: "Of course it is bad that these figures are wrong and ministers have apologised for that, I am sorry about that.

"But the important point is that actually there are 2.7 million more jobs in this country than there were in 1997. However figures now show that out of these new 2.7 millions jobs only 1.7 million have gone to British workers leaving 1 million jobs to non national. In that time the unemployment figure for young adults between 16-24 has risen to 1.2 million.



Now considering the CSO compile figures in a similar way could Ireland also be under counting the True figures of immigration in Ireland.

If we dont know how many people we have we can never have a decent health, education employment and housing policy for this nation, leaving Ireland always failing in these areas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7068291.stm

gandalf

Lets be honest here as long as developers are allowed to build estates on the outskirts of satellite towns without any infrastructure being put in place we will always be playing catch up with regard to health, employment & education irrespective of immigration or not.

The basic fact is our government and local government services are incapable of planning in an integrated fashion to any degree of success.

Hobbes

zexstream wrote: »

This creates all sorts of issues such as not being correctlly able to judge the amount of houses needed to be built, School places, Hospital places

Don't worry, the Irish government fuk'ed this up long before immigration was an issue.

As for employment for everyone. Don't know any country in the world that plans for employment for everyone.

silverharp

zexstream wrote: »

Now considering the CSO compile figures in a similar way could Ireland also be under counting the True figures of immigration in Ireland.

If we dont know how many people we have we can never have a decent health, education employment and housing policy for this nation, leaving Ireland always failing in these areas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7068291.stm

The Irish gov and authorities have never set a precedent for anticipating change regardless of the quality of information to hand. The ESRI in the late 80's issued reports stating how many houses needed to be completed in the 90's to deal with demographics etc. No plans were put in place, the system was/is corrupt or designed to fail take your pick however it was not a lack of proper numbers

lostexpectation

carrying out those instructions I see zexstream, posting the same post on here and politics.ie

wonder if you posted them on SF too?

oscarBravo

Don't know about Stormfront, but certainly on the INP message boards.

Why is this a problem?

marcsignal

oscarBravo wrote: »

Don't know about Stormfront........

From what I hear, posting anything like the OP in stormfront is a pointless exercise, if you want a proper discussion that is.
If someone is gonna register with stormfront in the first place, and post things like the OP, anybody with half a brain would know they are after reassurances of their misguided beliefs, by preaching to the already converted.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Why is this a problem?

I dunno oscarBravo ? I wouldn't consider posting the OP on the INP discussion as bad, per say, as stormfront, but I don't see any problem with the OP being posted here, provided the moderators monitor the thread and boot any poster off, if they post anything that is clearly Racist or deliberately offensive to another poster.
Isn't that what discussion forums are for ?
Perhaps I'm wrong ? Mabye making things Taboo, driving them completely underground, and patronising people who post Taboo subjects is the way forward ??

oscarBravo

I have no problem with anything being posted here, as long as it's on-topic and in accordance with the rules. I don't understand why there would be an issue with the same thing being posted on multiple message boards. If nothing else, it can be entertaining and instructive to see how different audiences treat the same subject matter.

Back on topic now, thanks.

marcsignal

Back on topic:

What concerns me about the OP subject matter is that the issue concerned will become a political football in the UK, and IMO that could just as easily happen here. When that occurs, the focus diverts from managing the issue properly and decends into scaremongering from the extreme right wingers, and hysterical overtures of racism from the PC brigade.

If there is any truth in the figures issue in the UK, or here, then I think it should be addressed pragmatically, for the benefit of everybody living in the country at the time, Immigrants and Nationals alike.

In the case of Ireland, if it is shown and proved beyond any reasonable doubt that current levels of immigration will be unsustainable in the future, then pragmatic decisions will need to be made, and frankly I believe there is no room from PC nonsense, or bigoted racism, in the debate.
Ireland cannot nanny or mother the world any better than the Americans can police it.

If immigration is kept to a level (whatever the EXPERTS determine that level to be) where ALL residents of the country can expect a life and lifestyle that protects and preserves their dignity, and the respect entitled to them, then I have no problem with people coming to Ireland.

djpbarry

marcsignal wrote: »

What concerns me about the OP subject matter is that the issue concerned will become a political football in the UK, and IMO that could just as easily happen here. When that occurs, the focus diverts from managing the issue properly and decends into scaremongering from the extreme right wingers, and hysterical overtures of racism from the PC brigade.

Very true. It would be a concern of mine also. I would say that the racist and xenophobic elements are on the rise already in Ireland.

marcsignal wrote: »

If immigration is kept to a level (whatever the EXPERTS determine that level to be) where ALL residents of the country can expect a life and lifestyle that protects and preserves their dignity, and the respect entitled to them, then I have no problem with people coming to Ireland.

Migration is largely self-regulating - setting it to a "level" is not practical as such. If jobs are available, migrants will come to the country. If jobs are unavailable, they will not.

marcsignal

djpbarry wrote: »

I would say that the racist and xenophobic elements are on the rise already in Ireland.

I would say, more possibly, that ligimate concerns some people may have about immigration, have the potential to be exploited by extreme right wing elements, either in Ireland, or further afield, via the internet, for example.
Thankfully, up to now, the Irish seem to have had little time for extreme right wing politics, but I think that will only be determined by straightforward managment of the immigration issue in the future, generally.

djpbarry wrote: »

Migration is largely self-regulating - setting it to a "level" is not practical as such. If jobs are available, migrants will come to the country. If jobs are unavailable, they will not.

Economic forecasts can not always be accurately predicted. However the powers that be should know what is currently sustainable, and combine that with a programme to get as many people off welfare as possible, Irish and Immigrant alike. However I am of the belief, that any immigrant who has proved himself/herself to be 'unemployable' in Ireland, should have their residency status reviewed accordingly.