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What does it mean (to you) to be irish?

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24

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    #32
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Britain happens to have the closest professional football league....
    Really? What about Cork City, Bohemians, Derry City, Galway Utd, Sligo Rovers, St Patrick's Ath, Drogheda Utd? All full-time, professional football clubs and, last time I checked, all based on this island.


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    #33
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Yeah, there is. It's called Northern Ireland. Didn't you get the memo? You can have a look at it here:

    Hello newsflash Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland make up Ireland there are no adjoining countries to Ireland which if you bothered to read ArthurFs post you would have spotted he was referring to Ireland not the 26 county state

    Honestly its about time you stepped outside of your 26 county mindset and realised that Ireland is 6 counties larger than you tought.



    djpbarry wrote: »
    Pray tell, what hardship have you suffered as a result of said "Union"?
    Thankfully I don't live in the Union

    But if you could not be arsed looking it up i am sure I can give you a brief list of some of the main hardships that the Union brought upon Irish people


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    #34
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Really? What about Cork City, Bohemians, Derry City, Galway Utd, Sligo Rovers, St Patrick's Ath, Drogheda Utd? All full-time, professional football clubs and, last time I checked, all based on this island.

    I think you are being pedantic to be honest.

    If you prefer Britain has the closest high standard professional league which is capable of attracting some of the best players in the world.

    That do you.


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    #35
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Hello newsflash Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland make up Ireland there are no adjoining countries to Ireland which if you bothered to read ArthurFs post you would have spotted he was referring to Ireland not the 26 county state
    Actually, it was you who made the reference to "Ireland".
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Honestly its about time you stepped outside of your 26 county mindset and realised that Ireland is 6 counties larger than you tought.
    In the political context, no, it is not.
    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Thankfully I don't live in the Union

    But if you could not be arsed looking it up i am sure I can give you a brief list of some of the main hardships that the Union brought upon Irish people
    But that is not what I asked. Neither I nor you suffered any hardship as a result of any Union. Neither did my parents nor my grandparents. I would imagine this is also true for many people living in the Republic. This would appear to contradict your statement that the Union "brought nothing but hardship for the vast majority of Irish people".


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    #36
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    I think you are being pedantic to be honest.

    If you prefer Britain has the closest high standard professional league which is capable of attracting some of the best players in the world.

    That do you.
    So you would support an English side ahead of an Irish side? A touch hypocritical, don't you think?

    I am by no means nationalist or particularly patriotic, but give me St Pats ahead of the The Premiership any day!


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    #37
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Union brings real hardship to the people of northern Ireland daily. Imagine imposing free medical care and heavily subsidised prescriptions on them!

    Anyone who thinks life was all rosey in the working class cities of england 150 years ago while we all lived in poverty needs their heads examined. The common man was poor in nearly every country in the world back then. It wasn't confined to Ireland and Scotland.


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    #38
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Thankfully I don't live in the Union

    But if you could not be arsed looking it up i am sure I can give you a brief list of some of the main hardships that the Union brought upon Irish people

    what we don't know of course, is what hardships Ireland would have gone through if it were not in the Union. Had the Irish kept their own kings, would they have treated the peasants any better? if they had they would have been about the only ruling classes in europe, if not the world, to do so.

    If Britain hadn't taken over, would france or Spain have moved in, they don't exactly have a great human rights record.


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    #39
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Actually there are no adjoining countries to Ireland. Scotland is adjoining to England and Wales is adjoining to England but Ireland is not adjoining to any of them.

    Your allegiance is to a Union that was foisted upon the majority of the people of Scotland and then Ireland against their wishes. A union which brought nothing but hardship for the vast majority of Irish people and Union which the majority of English people would apparently gladly like to see the back of now.


    Sadly, the Wall to understanding still exists in some peoples minds.


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    #40
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    ArthurF wrote: »
    Sadly, the Wall to understanding still exists in some peoples minds.
    Very true. Whether you like it or not Arthur, it would appear you have been claimed by the Republic ;)!


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    #41
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    A ginger wig, Ireland shirt and inflatable tricolor hammer. Brings a tear to my eye every time.


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    #42
    auggie2k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭auggie2k


    If you go to any country in this world... you WILL find an Irish pub.


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    #43
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    DrumSteve wrote: »
    I recently heard an talk about
    Im proud to be irish. I can hold my head high whenever i leave this country knowing that we've never invaded,enslaved,nuked,raped,gased,pillaged,exterminated or tried to commit genocide against any other country or race on this earth...

    there was murder ,mayhem ,robbery bombings etc done in our name for many years in NI and the UK .Many of these individuals still live in Ireland.

    A lot of the people that pushed indigenous people off their land in many parts of the world were actually Irish.


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    #44
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,367 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    what we don't know of course, is what hardships Ireland would have gone through if it were not in the Union. Had the Irish kept their own kings, would they have treated the peasants any better? if they had they would have been about the only ruling classes in europe, if not the world, to do so.

    If Britain hadn't taken over, would france or Spain have moved in, they don't exactly have a great human rights record.

    Maybe Ireland’s fate was sealed in the past as we would never have had enough critical mass to keep the big empires at bay however given that the French or Spanish would not have planted the country in big numbers, the effect on the culture would have been more limited. Whatever way you look at it was an apartheid setup and that was never going to be of net benefit to the host society. Graham Norton was on the TV programme “Who do you think you are” and his conclusion was that he had to believe his ancestors were good people, they just turned out to be on the wrong side! That sums it up for me.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #45
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    silverharp wrote: »
    Maybe Ireland’s fate was sealed in the past as we would never have had enough critical mass to keep the big empires at bay however given that the French or Spanish would not have planted the country in big numbers, the effect on the culture would have been more limited.

    I could tell you that food and beer would be better/cheaper if that were the case. :D


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    auggie2k wrote: »
    If you go to any country in this world... you WILL find an Irish pub.
    I don't think theres one in the Vatican ;)


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    #47
    ScottishDanny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭ScottishDanny


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ScottishDanny
    Shows what you know about football. Celtic fans are unlikely to support Chelsea, as Chelsea skinheads have an alliance with Rangers hooligans with the original name 'The Blues Brothers' with a common bond of BNP/Loyalist support.

    FTR I'm not saying this is true of ALL Rangers/Chelsea fans.

    em read my post again i never mentioned chelsea. and i do know a fair bit about football.
    also im speaking from an irish point of view.
    em I wasn't quoting you (other people have posted on this thread).

    SligoBrewer - I was at a Sligo Rovers v Celtic friendly game at the showgrounds back in 1993/4. The game was organised by former Celtic player and SRFC manager Willie McStay. You would have been a toddler I suppose. There was a great atmosphere between the two sets of fans, the majority of whom would have been aware of the close connections between the two clubs. I hope you learn something useful at college (only 22 months to go! ;))


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    #48
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    silverharp wrote: »
    Maybe Ireland’s fate was sealed in the past as we would never have had enough critical mass to keep the big empires at bay however given that the French or Spanish would not have planted the country in big numbers, the effect on the culture would have been more limited.

    the indigenous peoples of south america may beg to differ, but yes, it was an apartheid type regime.


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    #49
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    djpbarry wrote: »
    So you would support an English side ahead of an Irish side? A touch hypocritical, don't you think?

    I am by no means nationalist or particularly patriotic, but give me St Pats ahead of the The Premiership any day!


    That is not what I said I never suggested I support any English side


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    #50
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Tristrame wrote: »
    I don't think theres one in the Vatican ;)


    It probably hidden residents only


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    #51
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    That is not what I said I never suggested I support any English side
    No, but you were dismissive of the league here in Ireland. You implied that the English Premiership is more enjoyable as it "has the closest high standard professional league which is capable of attracting some of the best players in the world".


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    #52
    ScottishDanny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 288 ✭✭ScottishDanny


    Strewth lads dont forget the positives! Despite all the things that are easy to list - Ireland is a great place to live and work.


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    #53
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    ScottishDanny wrote: »
    Despite all the things that are easy to list - Ireland is a great place to live and work.
    In the global scheme of things, yes. In comparison to other developed countries, I would have to say, no.


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    #54
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    A Sligo person who does not know Brother Walfrid!

    I do know of Brother Walfrid but Hibernian FC are equally 'as irish' as Celtic but yet I don't see them being classed as 'Irish'.
    ScottishDanny wrote: »

    SligoBrewer - I was at a Sligo Rovers v Celtic friendly game at the showgrounds back in 1993/4. The game was organised by former Celtic player and SRFC manager Willie McStay. You would have been a toddler I suppose. There was a great atmosphere between the two sets of fans, the majority of whom would have been aware of the close connections between the two clubs. I hope you learn something useful at college (only 22 months to go! ;))

    I will!

    Them were the days when you didn't need Celtic to come to pack the Showgies, they would be packed every weekend. Lovely


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    #55
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    auggie2k wrote: »
    If you go to any country in this world... you WILL find an Irish pub.

    You will also find French Fries:p


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    #56
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Heinrich wrote: »
    You will also find French Fries:p

    the french are way cooler than us though.

    like they are the beholders of fine art, while we held peig in high esteem:rolleyes:


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    #57
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I'd like to point out that the soccer forum is that way, and politely request that the thread remain on-topic.


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    #58
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    murphaph wrote: »
    The Union brings real hardship to the people of northern Ireland daily. Imagine imposing free medical care and heavily subsidised prescriptions on them!


    Never mind the sectarianism discrimination and gerrymandering that they throw in for free as well.
    murphaph wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks life was all rosey in the working class cities of england 150 years ago while we all lived in poverty needs their heads examined. The common man was poor in nearly every country in the world back then. It wasn't confined to Ireland and Scotland.

    Well if you can name an area of England that had a famine on the scale of the one that occurred on this Island I would love to hear about it.


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    #59
    Voipjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭Voipjunkie


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    what we don't know of course, is what hardships Ireland would have gone through if it were not in the Union. Had the Irish kept their own kings, would they have treated the peasants any better? if they had they would have been about the only ruling classes in europe, if not the world, to do so.

    If Britain hadn't taken over, would france or Spain have moved in, they don't exactly have a great human rights record.

    Perhaps no one would have taken over.

    So what is your logic we should be grateful to the British on the off chance that someone else might possibly have been worse. I guess we could extend that logic and suggest that the Jews should be grateful to Hitler on the off chance that Stalin might have been worse.


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    #60
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Perhaps no one would have taken over.

    So what is your logic we should be grateful to the British on the off chance that someone else might possibly have been worse. I guess we could extend that logic and suggest that the Jews should be grateful to Hitler on the off chance that Stalin might have been worse.

    If Britain hadn't been the evil empire it was, someone else would have taken it's place. Who knows, maybe Ireland would have been off dishing it out to some other poor sod, rather than dishing it out as part of Britain. Ireland before British rule wasn't exactly a shrinking violet was it?


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    #61
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Voipjunkie wrote: »
    Well if you can name an area of England that had a famine on the scale of the one that occurred on this Island I would love to hear about it.
    The Irish famine was pretty unique and I don't think the British can be fully to blame for that. The way the British government dealt with it was shocking, but Ireland's massive population explosion and over dependance of the potato were also factors. (Yes I know there were land factors that contributed to the potato dependance as well)

    Take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre and substitute the word Manchester for Cork. This is hardly spoken about, but if it happened in Ireland McArmalite et al would be talking about it on a daily basis as another sign of British oppression in Ireland.

    I would suggest that Britain treated the catholic working class in Ireland no worse than catholics or the working class in Britain. Ireland had the advantage of nationalism, the British had to rely on trade unionism.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_Martyrs it wasn't just peasants from Athenry that ended up in oz.


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