New Golden Compass film- Nobody is happy

pH

As the movie version Phillip Pullman's Northern Lights - "The Golden Compass" is about to hit the screen it appears than nobody - atheists or theists is happy with the film.

The anti-religion message seems to have been toned down, but this seems to have annoyed the US Christian right even more - now viewing the toned down film as some kind of gateway to trick their little ones into reading the books.

Critics fear that the film, due out in December, will encourage children to read the anti-Church series.

Some atheists and fans of the books aren't happy, either. They say the studio has caved to pressure from the Christian right by sanitizing the tale for the big screen.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305487,00.html

I read and enjoyed all 3 books, but found book 3 confusing, and the strong anti-religious message was lost on me.

http://www.calendarlive.com/tv/radio/cl-ca-golden28oct28,0,5769364.story

robindch

Now that Harry Potter's been burnt, I suppose they must be looking around for a new moral threat to the nation!

I listened to most of the three books on mp3, but I can't say they had me glued to the seat. Some very good ideas, but a lot of dull tosh to get through too. The anti-religious stuff was there, but wasn't very consistently presented. Still and all, it was nice to see a amoral she-devil named 'Coulter'

Zillah

Its a total storm in a teacup. There are three novels in the series. The second and third are strong in their anti-church message, the first much less so. They've only made a movie about the first one so far, so this will only really be an issue once they make the second and third films.

Dave!

I see.

Did everyone hear about Bill Maher's new documentary coming out, Religulous?

Sounds good Bill Maher is great.

Dades

Have been following this as HDM are my fav books ever.

From what I've read they've tread carefully with the first film as they want the other two greenlit. As Zillah says the real meat is in the later parts of the series. Forget the badmouthing of the "Majesterium" (read: church) - what happens with "God" in The Amber Spyglass is the real crunch!

It is cynical they way Pullman has tried to sneak his beliefs on the young and innocent however. Imagine trying to indoctrinate children before they're old enough to think for themselves.

Scofflaw

Interesting Christian review.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zillah

Scofflaw wrote: »

Interesting Christian review.

I can smell his fear...

stevejazzx

The man who brought us pie fu**ing brings us Pullmans multiple universe fantasy...hmmm...there would seem to be bigger issues here rather than reliogus ones..
I loved the books...Pullmans anti establishment ideas were excellently put over the 3 volumes...I can't believe even for a minute that he would allow that to be omitted - however he did allow the damn thing (book) to be called 'the golden compass' becasue some idiot publisher in the states decided that the aliethiometer (sorry for spelling?) was a compass and not only that but refused to back down even after Pullman explained to him that is was nothing of the sort...I mean Pullman rings him up and tells him he's mistaken and he still believes he's right...quite clearly a religous man!!
Christians having a probelm with this is just madness, I mean it's getting to a stage where anything involving the slightest anti-reliogus sentiment is lambasted and tagged as satanic. What do they want? Complete immunity against every critique, isn't that Fascim, totalitarianism?

Hivemind187

Scofflaw wrote: »

Interesting Christian review.

cordially,
Scofflaw

... and they wonder why we lose it and start making fun of them. Yeesh!

PDN

The title of this thread is misleading. I'm perfectly happy.

qwertplaywert

stevejazzx wrote: »

isn't that Fascim, totalitarianism?

No, just organized religion.

condra

robindch wrote: »

Now that Harry Potter's been burnt, I suppose they must be looking around for a new moral threat to the nation!

Did anyone see that Rowling admitted in some press event that (despite it not being explicitly written in the books), one of the characters in Harry Potter is gay?

I thought this was hilarious, as was the reaction from American theists.

Dades

womoma wrote: »

Did anyone see that Rowling admitted in some press event that (despite it not being explicitly written in the books), one of the characters in Harry Potter is gay?

FYI - older mention of this here!

MrB

According to an article in the Sunday Times Culture Section this week, HBO are thinking of optioning the Preacher series of Graphic novels for a TV show. That should get the religious right good and foaming mad :eek:

pH

womoma wrote: »

Did anyone see that Rowling admitted in some press event that (despite it not being explicitly written in the books), one of the characters in Harry Potter is gay?

I thought this was hilarious, as was the reaction from American theists.

Yes the reaction was almost "what would she know?" or "how dare she!"

Which brings us on neatly to this, apparently Pullman's books aren't atheistic after all, so a Theologian tells us:

"But this is a sad misreading of the trilogy. These books are deeply theological, and deeply Christian in their theology."

"This emerging controversy, then, is deeply unusual. It features an artist who claims atheism, but whose work is unabashedly theistic. And it features a series of books that are at once charming and thrilling children's literature, and a story that explores some of the most divisive and fascinating issues in Catholic theology today."

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_dust/

Zombrex

pH wrote: »

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_dust/

The Catholic League, a conservative religious organization, launched a campaign on Oct. 9 calling on all Catholics to boycott the film. ... urged parents to keep kids out of theaters showing the film

LOL .. that is up there with "Behead those who say Islam is violent" (yes I know it was a fake) for irony.

You are all individuals

Yes, we are all individuals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQqq3e03EBQ

robindch

Pullman appeared briefly on the BBC news at ten last night and he fumbled through sound-bites worse than Dawkins does, and that's saying something...

Anyhow, this catholic guy Donohue who's making all the running over in the USA about the book "peddling atheism" and what-have-you. Well, it's a strange atheistic book which has god as a major character. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but perhaps Donohue hasn't actually read them?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ummm

i dunno about that robindch ...

god does get killed towards the end...

robindch

Yep, that's true. But it still doesn't make much sense if you say that a film is atheistic, if god's a character in it? I mean, if Lyra arrives in heaven and finds the place empty, then Donohue's got a point. Or maybe he could accuse Pullman of supporting deicide or something like that. But atheism? Nah.

Anyhow, perhaps somebody who's made it to the end of the series could comment? I got fifty pages into the last book, then got bored and stopped.

It's a bit like all that whinging about Harry Potter selling witchcraft when it's the bible that says that witches exist and should be killed. The criticism becomes strangely pointless when you actually make the mistake of thinking about it.

Zombrex

The books, and to a less extend the film, aren't atheist, they are anti-religion

Of course a lot of people (including those who like to tout Stalin as example of persecution in the name of atheism ... yes PDN, looking at you ) don't understand the difference.

humanji

Mordeth wrote: »

ummm

i dunno about that robindch ...

god does get killed towards the end...

I thought at the end that

it's not actually god who is killed, but a false god who has taken god's place?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that's entirely possible, I don't really remember

actually... I am remembering... something similar to what you described, but I could just be trying to rationalise myself into not being wrong.

stevejazzx

Mordeth wrote: »

that's entirely possible, I don't really remember

actually... I am remembering... something similar to what you described, but I could just be trying to rationalise myself into not being wrong.

No, God is the authority, instead of bieing something other worldly he turns out to be a frail old man. He was made from dust which in his dark materials is matter that has realised consciousness, he just so happens to be the first person to have been made from dust and he tells everyone who comes after him that he made them

matrim

humanji wrote: »

I thought at the end that

it's not actually god who is killed, but a false god who has taken god's place?

The False God is Metatron (SP?), an angel who is ruling heaven because God is too frail. But as SteeveJaxx said God himself is a frail old man who does die too

Dades

robindch wrote: »

I got fifty pages into the last book, then got bored and stopped.

Doesn't that mean you can't honestly defend them from a zealous Christian who has read them?!

How are you going to respond in a letter to the Times when the complaints start rolling in?

robindch

Dades wrote:

Doesn't that mean you can't honestly defend them from a zealous Christian who has read them?!

I don't think there is such a person!

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote: »

I don't think there is such a person!

I think I know one.:)

Dades

BrianCalgary wrote: »

I think I know one.:)

And what are their thoughts on the subject?!

BrianCalgary

Dades wrote: »

And what are their thoughts on the subject?!

We didn't talk about it. He mentioned it in passing back in the summer when we were with our wives for a dinner and movie night. He just said that the movies were coming and that the writer was an atheist.

Never heard anything more about it until this thread.

robindch

Brian wrote:

Never heard anything more about it until this thread.

Sounds like it's amazingly lousy atheist propaganda then

Dades

robindch wrote: »

Sounds like it's amazingly lousy atheist propaganda then

I think insidious is the word you are looking for Robin.