Accountancy firms - which one?

commercegrad07

currently in my last year of a b.comm and specialising in accountancy.. recently went through the milk round and did all my interviews etc.. luckily enough got offered the big 4, each in dublin.. just wondering which do you think is best, or is there any difference at all?

chump

Hey,

are they all audit?

What you need to do is try their HR departments and find out exactly what section you'll be put in, or ideally select the section you will be in.

What I mean by this is what will you be auditing?
Financial services?
Health?
Construction?
IT?
Pharma?

Find out what section you'll be in. Find out what clients they have. And choose the most interesting one.

Most people choose a 'firm' - including me.
Some get lucky with their sections, some not so. Best bet is to find out exactly what you'll be working at - or even better, choose yourself.

dudara

I'll ditto Chump's advice, but also go for one where you will feel comfortable. You should get vibes from each throughout the interview process.

commercegrad07

thanks. i have requested financial services in them all. you spoke about the vibe i got in the interviews etc but essentially for me i felt they were all the same.. there was little or no differenciation. i think i might just draw a straw as they appear to be all the same.. salaries etc

Louth Man

commercegrad07 wrote: »

thanks. i have requested financial services in them all. you spoke about the vibe i got in the interviews etc but essentially for me i felt they were all the same.. there was little or no differenciation. i think i might just draw a straw as they appear to be all the same.. salaries etc

I was in your posistion last year, decided it would be between KPMG and PwC and just went with vibe. KPMG seemed slightly more down-to-earth than PwC

Newaglish

Yeah, I think most people would have their recommendations, mostly depending on whether they like where they work or not. At the end of the day, it is partially luck of the draw. To echo the advice of others, try to find out what kind of clients you'll be auditing and think about what the people you've met are like.

Take into account also the location of the company you'll be working for. KPMG (depending on your department) is either Stephen's Green or the IFSC, PwC is near enough to the IFSC as well and it has a fantastic building; EY and Deloitte again are near enough to the Stephen's Green / Harcourt area (I think!)

Ideo

commercegrad07 wrote: »

thanks. i have requested financial services in them all. you spoke about the vibe i got in the interviews etc but essentially for me i felt they were all the same.. there was little or no differenciation. i think i might just draw a straw as they appear to be all the same.. salaries etc

If you have requested FS in them all then I'd be 99% certain that you'll get FS.

Firm wise FS is located in KPMG's office in the IFSC ( harbourmaster place). The other 3 only have one office in Dublin so you'll be in that office

seanieclarke

commercegrad07 wrote: »

currently in my last year of a b.comm and specialising in accountancy.. recently went through the milk round and did all my interviews etc.. luckily enough got offered the big 4, each in dublin.. just wondering which do you think is best, or is there any difference at all?

well done on gettin all 4 to offer u a job!

irish.rugby.fan

Finding it a little hard to believe that you have been offered all 4 by Wednesday since most interviews didnt start till tuesday?

commercegrad07

galway had all interviews last week because of exams..

tywy

What sort of questions did you get asked? Any surprises or just the standard ones?

chump

my advice would be to read up on the companies

have preprepared answers for questions such as - in cases where examples may be required, have 2 EXAMPLES in each case that you can talk about that demonstrate the following

- team playing
- working to a deadline
- good business that you admire
- bad business that you dislike
- personal strengths, where were they displayed
- problem solving
- strong numeracy
- ambition
- why accounting (see above)
- dealing with a difficult person/client/colleague/college pal/situation

above all, be enthusiastic, pleasant, don't make a fool of yourself (ie. waffling with no point), don't appear cocky, try and ask good questions (this kills time and shows interest), show a good attitude

just thought i'd fire that out!

ircoha

irish.rugby.fan wrote: »

Finding it a little hard to believe that you have been offered all 4 by Wednesday since most interviews didnt start till tuesday?

Time to take the blatent insinuation back here
since
commercegrad07

galway had all interviews last week because of exams..
Yesterday 19:15

ircoha

chump wrote: »

my advice would be to read up on the companies

have preprepared answers for questions such as - in cases where examples may be required, have 2 EXAMPLES in each case that you can talk about that demonstrate the following

- team playing
- working to a deadline
- good business that you admire
- bad business that you dislike
- personal strengths, where were they displayed
- problem solving
- strong numeracy
- ambition
- why accounting (see above)
- dealing with a difficult person/client/colleague/college pal/situation

above all, be enthusiastic, pleasant, don't make a fool of yourself (ie. waffling with no point), don't appear cocky, try and ask good questions (this kills time and shows interest), show a good attitude

just thought i'd fire that out!

Good list of items here by Chump:

One topic now in focus is whistleblowing, particularly if the issue arises in a client company, say as part of audit. I think the different acc bodies have guidance there-on

irish.rugby.fan

ircoha wrote: »

Time to take the blatent insinuation back here
since
commercegrad07

Whoops sorry, forgot Galway was the exception.

Saw Commerce and jumped to the wrong conclusion.

irish.rugby.fan

commercegrad07 wrote: »

currently in my last year of a b.comm and specialising in accountancy.. recently went through the milk round and did all my interviews etc.. luckily enough got offered the big 4, each in dublin.. just wondering which do you think is best, or is there any difference at all?

I would advise against Ernest and Young. From what I hear, their pratice is all over the place at the moment, and they have lost a number of large plc clients over the last few years.

Cantoris

chump wrote: »

my advice would be to read up on the companies

have preprepared answers for questions such as - in cases where examples may be required, have 2 EXAMPLES in each case that you can talk about that demonstrate the following

- team playing
- working to a deadline
- good business that you admire
- bad business that you dislike
- personal strengths, where were they displayed
- problem solving
- strong numeracy
- ambition
- why accounting (see above)
- dealing with a difficult person/client/colleague/college pal/situation

above all, be enthusiastic, pleasant, don't make a fool of yourself (ie. waffling with no point), don't appear cocky, try and ask good questions (this kills time and shows interest), show a good attitude

just thought i'd fire that out!

That is a good list. As a previous interviewer, all I was looking for is someone with some personality who I could see asking some difficult questions of clients without getting overawed. Confidence is important. Shyness is fine as it can be worked on as long as you can prove that you can use your brain, be a detective and if you find something wrong, assess how wrong it is and take the approprriate course of action.

On the best firm to join, everyone has their own views. I believe E&Y have just been taken over by the UK firm due to some probs. It is an older partnership base with new blood being brought in now so might be going through a change process for a few years.

One of the key differences between PWC and KPMG is how the structure is set up. In KPMG you are put into a sub-group of say 20/30 under one or two partners with two or three managers. The sub-group becomes your home. In PWC I believe it is a central resourcing basis so that you do not have a sub-group home within FS and anyone can use you. As a result, the social scene in KPMG is perceived to be slightly better as you get to know you sub-group very well.

FS is most firms is quite a difficult unit to work in purely due to the amount of work they have on. Make sure you understand the sub sections within FS - insurance, banking, funds etc etc and which one you want to be in. Not having trained in FS I can't comment on which is better but some definately got some bad comments so ring them and say you are making your choice and would like to know if you will be working with the partner who interviewed you. If the partner liked you then they may ensure that you work for them. Trust me, if you got an offer from all four you ar in the driving seat. Ring them and say you are asking each firm the same question.

Good luck with it.

ircoha

Cantoris wrote: »

....Trust me, if you got an offer from all four you ar in the driving seat. Ring them and say you are asking each firm the same question.

Yes, 4 offers seems to indicate some inate talent.
However OP: once u start, let your performance AFTER u join be the measure of your progress and dont let your bcomm/ interview results tempt u to sit on ur laurels or tempt u to be an arrogant ...., particularly with ur peers.

tywy

Has anyone heard back from PwC after their interview in Dublin?

I've heard back from both KPMG and Deloitte but not PwC...

tywy

I have another question... I've heard if you ask before you sign your contract you can choose which division you go into within Audit.

I'm between choosing Financial Services and TMT/CHEC/TICE (different acronyms with the different firms), I'm coming from an Engineering degree, I'm going to go do the PDA in DIT (I hope) and then start as a trainee in Sept 2009.

Which section is better to work for? I would prefer the option to go out into industry once I've finished my training although I don't know whether I will choose to do that.

chump

tywy wrote: »

I have another question... I've heard if you ask before you sign your contract you can choose which division you go into within Audit.

I'm between choosing Financial Services and TMT/CHEC/TICE (different acronyms with the different firms), I'm coming from an Engineering degree, I'm going to go do the PDA in DIT (I hope) and then start as a trainee in Sept 2009.

Which section is better to work for? I would prefer the option to go out into industry once I've finished my training although I don't know whether I will choose to do that.

TMT/CHEC/TICE IMO
Particularly if industry means non financial service industry.

commercegrad07

thanks all for the various bits of advice.. still have not made a decision, have kinda narrowed it to deloitte and kpmg.. just heard much better reports from these, e y was never really a runner.. felt they were much less professional than the others. also didnt really warm to the people at the pwc presentation and interview, dunno why.. deloitte are offering free holiday for all gradutes who accept.. should i base my decision on a week of beer in mallorca?? ..also think im gonna go for the TMT/CHEC/TICE sector.. on recommendation of lads who have gone through it.. should i ring after i accept and make my preference known? they constantly state that no guarantees can be made..

chump

commercegrad07 wrote: »

thanks all for the various bits of advice.. still have not made a decision, have kinda narrowed it to deloitte and kpmg.. just heard much better reports from these, e y was never really a runner.. felt they were much less professional than the others. also didnt really warm to the people at the pwc presentation and interview, dunno why.. deloitte are offering free holiday for all gradutes who accept.. should i base my decision on a week of beer in mallorca?? ..also think im gonna go for the TMT/CHEC/TICE sector.. on recommendation of lads who have gone through it.. should i ring after i accept and make my preference known? they constantly state that no guarantees can be made..

if you've decided which section you wanna be in, put it to both of them that you want a guarantee for this section, otherwise you'll go elsewhere.

Then, if they both play ball, choose the one that is handiest for living arrangements, pays better, and has better perks (free holiday you say?)

Ultimately it's a coin toss situation unless you find out more info - clients, managers, team, etc.?

Running Bing

commercegrad07 wrote: »

thanks all for the various bits of advice.. still have not made a decision, have kinda narrowed it to deloitte and kpmg.. just heard much better reports from these, e y was never really a runner.. felt they were much less professional than the others. also didnt really warm to the people at the pwc presentation and interview, dunno why.. deloitte are offering free holiday for all gradutes who accept.. should i base my decision on a week of beer in mallorca?? ..also think im gonna go for the TMT/CHEC/TICE sector.. on recommendation of lads who have gone through it.. should i ring after i accept and make my preference known? they constantly state that no guarantees can be made..

I face the exact same choice commercegrad.

The way I have broken it down:


Location: Both the same
Salary:Identical
People: found people at both firms friendly and approachable
Clients:Both have an interesting client list


As you can see I am no further:mad:


Some differences are though KPMG give 22 holiday days a year where as Deloitte give 21. As for the free gift it is very nice but I am doing the masters and KPMG give a 2500 contribution to subsitence expenses which Deloitte dont so that cancels the free holiday out. Also Deloitte do the early finishes on Friday during the summer which kinda cancels the extra days holiday out:mad:

There really is nothing to choose.:rolleyes:

Fruiti

i just saw this as was randomly searching for something else. i work in deloitte and spent 8 months in kpmg on work experience a few years ago. i had the same decision and ultimately you should both base it on where you met the nicest ppl and those you feel you could fit in better with. i enjoyed kpmg but felt it was a little more formal (e.g. wearing suits every day which is not necessary in deloitte) than deloitte. im 100% happy with my decision and most ppl who work here feel the same. also, check with deloitte re: that 2500 for the masters year because i did the macc in smurfit and they paid 7500 towards fees, 2500 subsistence and 500 book voucher so i'd be surprised if they no longer offer it! good luck with your decisions!:)

Running Bing

Fruiti wrote: »

i just saw this as was randomly searching for something else. i work in deloitte and spent 8 months in kpmg on work experience a few years ago. i had the same decision and ultimately you should both base it on where you met the nicest ppl and those you feel you could fit in better with. i enjoyed kpmg but felt it was a little more formal (e.g. wearing suits every day which is not necessary in deloitte) than deloitte. im 100% happy with my decision and most ppl who work here feel the same. also, check with deloitte re: that 2500 for the masters year because i did the macc in smurfit and they paid 7500 towards fees, 2500 subsistence and 500 book voucher so i'd be surprised if they no longer offer it! good luck with your decisions!:)

Im sure they do actually...I found it a bit strange KPMG would offer it and Deloitte wouldnt.

Question:Would I be out of place in Deloitte if I wore a suit everyday? Is it really casual clothes wise?

dudara

Babybing wrote: »

Im sure they do actually...I found it a bit strange KPMG would offer it and Deloitte wouldnt.

Question:Would I be out of place in Deloitte if I wore a suit everyday? Is it really casual clothes wise?

I don't work in Audit or Tax, but I do work for a big 4 and I would never not wear a suit (or at the very least, smart business casual). It's a professional services firm after all.

I have seen young trainees in our lifts that are dressed very casually - not doing themselves any favours.

Running Bing

dudara wrote: »

I don't work in Audit or Tax, but I do work for a big 4 and I would never not wear a suit (or at the very least, smart business casual). It's a professional services firm after all.

I have seen young trainees in our lifts that are dressed very casually - not doing themselves any favours.

Agree.I think in such an environment a suit should always be worn. Men are generally far too casual in the way they dress these days.


Plus I absolutely hate mixing my casual with smart....it always leads to disaster. Ill either wear a full suit or jeans and a Polo.

Fruiti

god no i wouldnt wear jeans and polo - just not essential to wear a full suit. I generally skirts/trousers with shirts/tops - i.e. normal business wear. obviously anytime i meet a client i would always wear a suit! impressions and all that! i havent seen any trainees in casual wear - it is a professional firm after all! btw if you're concerned as to what dept you'll be placed in - there are generally 2 things to know - 1. if you do express a preference i.e. tmt/cb/fs you will almost certainly be placed in that dept. deloitte are good about facilitating ppl. 2. if you do not, you will prob be placed in the same dept as your interviewer, it generally works that way.

dudara

Babybing wrote: »

jeans and a Polo.

I'd never wear jeans or anything casual. A relaxed day for me is smart business for most people.

I just find it easy to wear a certain type of clothing to work. It helps put me in the mood for work and makes me feel professional. It also helps clients develop a good view of our professionalism.

BTW I'm female, in case this is affecting anyone's interpretations of my answers.

Running Bing

I meant in general for casualwear I wear Jeans and a polo but if it is work I like to wear suit.


Im not gonna wear Jeans into work.lol.:p

Fruiti

im sure you wont!:D anyway if you want to know anything further about deloitte, my dept, the people, the atmostphere etc, just pm me!! otherwise ppl will figure out who i am - argh! im sure you spoke to ppl at the morrison events or whatever event was on for your college but its easier to ask questions once you actually have a job not before the interview!!

The_Hustler

Babybing wrote: »

I face the exact same choice commercegrad.

The way I have broken it down:


Location: Both the same
Salary:Identical
People: found people at both firms friendly and approachable
Clients:Both have an interesting client list


As you can see I am no further:mad:


Some differences are though KPMG give 22 holiday days a year where as Deloitte give 21. As for the free gift it is very nice but I am doing the masters and KPMG give a 2500 contribution to subsitence expenses which Deloitte dont so that cancels the free holiday out. Also Deloitte do the early finishes on Friday during the summer which kinda cancels the extra days holiday out:mad:

There really is nothing to choose.:rolleyes:

Deloitte definitely give some form of payment as well as a laptop. KPMG only give a laptop if you go to Smurfit (which I thought was unfair). But I think this affects how much you receive.

KPMG finish early the friday before bank holidays, I don't know about the summer though.

I do think the toughest choice is between these two companies. I had to choose between PwC and KPMG so I had an easier decision imo

tywy

Yeah, PwC aren't as appealing as Deloitte and KPMG. They weren't as nice at the interview and they're pretty far away.

I was interviewed for FS in KPMG I think but I would prefer to go into CHEC. I'm leaning toward Deloitte TMT though. Better vibe from Deloitte. How much travelling would you have to do working in TMT?

irish.rugby.fan

Babybing wrote: »

I face the exact same choice commercegrad.

The way I have broken it down:


Location: Both the same
Salary:Identical
People: found people at both firms friendly and approachable
Clients:Both have an interesting client list


As you can see I am no further:mad:


Some differences are though KPMG give 22 holiday days a year where as Deloitte give 21. As for the free gift it is very nice but I am doing the masters and KPMG give a 2500 contribution to subsitence expenses which Deloitte dont so that cancels the free holiday out. Also Deloitte do the early finishes on Friday during the summer which kinda cancels the extra days holiday out:mad:

There really is nothing to choose.:rolleyes:

Pretty sure the KPMG working day is 15mins longer than Deloitte.

t_ucd

With KPMG you get the option to buy another 8 days' holidays, that is what swung it for me!

dudara

Deloitte also offer the option to buy holidays, not too sure about the amount of days purchasable.

People on training contracts can also build up Time Off In Lieu when they work overtime (ie 1 hours overtime equals one extra hour off that can be put towards study leave). I'm sure that the other big firms also offer something similar.

yevveh

Some good advice here. After this I think I've already decided which firm I'd like to go for.. hope I get the offer!