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Overzealous Ban for trying to help

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    #32
    togster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭togster


    flibz wrote: »
    I do appreciate the leeway I was shown. I thought I made it obvious enough thaty I was connected without giving away too much, which was my aim.

    I'm certainly not expecting context to be debated, but the post for which the user was banned was nothing more than attempting to provide clarification of an issue. I was hoping there could effectively be "an appeal".

    The user in question is not a technical person, so almost certainly wouldn't know about deleting cookies, forum rules, etc. They just wanted to help users...

    Also, thanks for taking the time to clarify the position on this and apologies for going on a bit - I'm just trying to dlear up what is essentially a misunderstanding...


    TBH i think you have been very polite unlike some others:rolleyes: and i agree with you.


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    #33
    flibz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭flibz


    Well, a decision has been made by Vexorg not to reinstate the user in question.

    I've sent a last ditch apologetic PM to Vexorg, but if that doesn't help then I'm just going to shut up. I've done what I can but I've no wish to continue flogging this particular dead horse.

    Thanks for your patience, tolerance and support of my opinion (if/where applicable).

    That just leaves me to try and help any MyMeteor users who have any technical issues. But I don't have any power above the power to suggest changes - so I'm going to be much less effective.

    Anyways, cheers...

    F


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    #34
    flibz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭flibz


    Sorry guys,
    Can I get a definitive answer on exactly what steps must be taken to ensure that future users don't get banned for shilling (when not shilling).

    A sig template would be good. Or some profile tag...

    Cheers,
    F


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    #35
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Well, I can't give you anything definitive because many cases are different.

    Basic rule: Declare any interests up front. A sure sign of a shill is someone who pretends to be a satisfied customer of a company or pretends to be someone who "stumbled" on the company's website via a search.

    If you have an interest in what's being discussed (i.e. it's about your company, your family's company or your friend's company), then declare that to avoid confusion.

    Try not to post many/any links in your first few posts. Always a warning flag.


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    #36
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Its a shame that both Beruthiel and tom dunne clearly couldn't be arsed to actually read the thread in question. If they have read and understood it, that would worry me more.

    The user was not banned for shilling (contrary to the OP's sugguestion). They were banned for "attempted deception and not disclosing commercial associations". I hope I don't need to explain the difference between this situation and a shill. Ye're both around long enough - ye should know.

    For the record, I agree with a sanction for gidget, but I feel a perm ban with a suggestion to sign up again is just plain stupid.


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    #37
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    manatee2.jpg

    Sorry, couldn't help it...

    Seriously though, I don't think a ban is really called for under these circumstances. The user definitely sent up warning lights, and I think it was a prudent ban, but now that we can look at the situation, maybe it's worth unbanning the user and call it lesson learned?


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    #38
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    cast_iron wrote: »
    The user was not banned for shilling (contrary to the OP's sugguestion). They were banned for "attempted deception and not disclosing commercial associations".
    Finally someone who reads.
    For the record, I agree with a sanction for gidget, but I feel a perm ban with a suggestion to sign up again is just plain stupid.
    Well, while I would have banned the user in question from the forum, Beruthiel perm banned him and I suggested the latter. So you make a fair point in that that is not terribly consistent.


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    #39
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    The user was pretending to not be from the company but was.

    I understand that they were trying to help and there was no malice in what they were doing. Ok, but that isn't really my worry. If Meteor want a representative on these forums, all they need do is ask and be upfront about that. We have reps from UTV and other operators who have been here for years, clearly labeled as an agent of the company so that their comments can be taken in context and coloured by their tied-agency (to use a life-assurance/banking term). If they arent willing to do that, then I dont want them to send their "boy" over to do it by the sly. If you feel you want to help users, then go to your boss and suggest they have a rep. If they refuse, then become a shill at your own peril.

    If you're company will fire you for helping people on a forum, you might want to consider getting a new job.

    Full disclosure is a BASIC RULE of the site or we will be swimming in shills. No exceptions, no bending the rules, no tolerance and no mercy. All you have to do is say "I work for that site" because it affords people the basic courtesy of knowing that you are being paid to say and recommend what you say/recommend. With that said, and in light of the circumstances I think the user should be banned from the forum due to the lack of malice and corporate instruction to be involved.

    DeV.


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    #40
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    DeVore wrote: »
    Full disclosure is a BASIC RULE of the site or we will be swimming in shills.
    In fairness full disclosure isn't necessary, IMHO.

    If someone is willing to point out that "I work for a mobile operator" (without naming which one) and only when relevant (who cares if you work for a mobile operator if it's a thread about, say, the Carphone Warehouse) then that would probably be fine by me as it's ultimately about being open on potential conflicts of interest.

    But telling porkies is a no-no.


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    #41
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    one thing stands out in this discourse,

    is it now OK to re register after a Permanant SiteBan?

    I was fairly sure that was one of the Absolute rules. hang on a mo..........


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    #42
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    DeVore wrote: »
    With that said, and in light of the circumstances I think the user should be banned from the forum due to the lack of malice and corporate instruction to be involved.

    DeV.
    Do you mean banned from that particular forum or all of boards?
    That sentence is hard to follow, banned for lack of malice nd corpoate instruction? :p


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    #43
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    This user was brought to my attention by the Mod of that forum.
    She was a shill.
    I site banned her.
    It was approved by an Admin.
    Get over it.

    Agreed, the user lied about who they were, they were clearly a Meteor employee but yet said there friend was,

    Either the user makes it clear who they are or the don't post about it at all.


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    #44
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Agreed, the user lied about who they were, they were clearly a Meteor employee but yet said there friend was,

    Either the user makes it clear who they are or the don't post about it at all.

    The rules of that forum are a little grey as it says employees "may wish" to disclose who they work for, it does not say "has to"

    As far as I can see they were not actually in violation of any rules


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    #45
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Agreed, the user lied about who they were, they were clearly a Meteor employee but yet said there friend was,

    Either the user makes it clear who they are or the don't post about it at all.

    How do you know that they did not ask a friend to explain it to them.

    If someone asked me about something to do with my company, that i did not know the answer to, I could ask a friend to give me the answer


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    #46
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    There is no question they are an employee, from IP and email address.


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    #47
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    There is no question they are an employee, from IP and email address.

    Cool no bother.

    Just an aside if IP addresses are used.
    Untill recently, I was not employed by the company whose IP I use. I was a contractor. IP will give a good indication but are not cast iron


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    #48
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,632 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    norrie rugger wrote: »
    Cool no bother.

    Just an aside if IP addresses are used.
    Untill recently, I was not employed by the company whose IP I use. I was a contractor. IP will give a good indication but are not cast iron

    true but it would probably still be considered conflict of interest.


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    #49
    ecksor
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭ecksor


    Mahatma coat wrote: »
    one thing stands out in this discourse,

    is it now OK to re register after a Permanant SiteBan?

    I was fairly sure that was one of the Absolute rules. hang on a mo..........

    That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that someone who doesn't set these rules made a comment and you've made a bit of a leap in reasoning.


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    #50
    David Michael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 677 ✭✭✭David Michael


    ecksor wrote: »
    That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that someone who doesn't set these rules made a comment and you've made a bit of a leap in reasoning.

    I thinks you need to re install your Zero post script..... it broken since upgrade?


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