Rememberance Poppy

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Jigsaw

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

where were you born?

I was born in a hospital in NI and have lived my whole life in NI apart from 3.5 yrs in Manchester. I consider myself an Irish Citizen. I know that "legally speaking" I am a UK citizen but I do not consider myself as such.

Anyway, I am thread hijacking here and that is not on. Although I might start another thread on this topic I have on my mind as it is bugging me recently.

Jigsaw

ziggy wrote: »

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Sorry Ziggy, sort of didn't mean to quote you there or at least did quote you but inaccurately. I'll say no more and perhaps start another thread another time as I am being off topic in a big way.

Voipjunkie

deadprez wrote: »

Jesus,I can't believe the ignorance of some people here. You would actually refuse to wear one on the grounds of our history with the UK? That's absurd and uneducated to say the least. over 100 men from cork and surrounding counties jumped from planes in Holland in a bid to assist the struggle against occupied Europe. Had the Nazi war machine been successful then Ireland would have been decimated and forced into death camps as the rest of Europe was. We are not of Arian origin, at least we don't look it, and would surely have suffered gravely as a result. The German government had a 1000 year plan to be the worlds dominating race, look what they did in 5 years. It makes me sick to think that people can actually have bitter thoughts about British rule in Ireland and thus attribute that to the war effort. It's a very sorry state of affairs and does not make me very proud to be Irish with such low life opinions. If there were poppies available in Ireland then I would be donning one for the heroes who fought and fell for our freedoms. This was not a "war on terror" it was a World War and could have led to dominance of Europe and possibly the world.Go read a book or two.

If the poppy was only about commemorating those that died defeating Nazism then I would have no problem wearing one.

But it is not it commemorates all those who died fighting for the British not just in the 2 world wars but in their various colonial endeavors as such I have not interest in commemorating those involved in terrorist actions in Ireland, Aden, Palestine the Suez ,Iraq,India, Afghanistan, Kenya , Malaya, Vietnam , Korea, and on and on nor the people who invented the concentration camp for that matter.

So for those reasons I would never wear a Poppy

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starn

Peared wrote: »

Yeah deadprez we're simple and ignorant. Sure jaysus we are a simple folk. Someone comes along and invades starves and murders us and destroys our culture and steals our country.

Now lets all have a moment of silence and wear a poppy for the self same armies of murderers cos someone else happened to kill them.

Live by it, die by it.

Simple and Ignorant. What you are is a Kn0bjockey. Ya tool

deadprez

gurramok wrote: »

Pot, kettle, black?

You say read a book, how about read a book on what happened here under British rule for a start before blabbing on about something you cherish.


How do you know Hitler wanted to send the Irish to the death camps, first i heard of it. In case you'd forgotten, we were neutral in WWII and that was respected by the big powers back then.

Your not serious with this right? Your not actually suggesting that due to our "neutrality" we would not be harmed by the Nazi war machine?I can't believe I'm reading this

I dunno about you on the Aryan thing , but i look German as much as Spanish or Italian for that matter, makes no difference to the situation.

Ok your REALLY need to take a history lesson. You do know why the jews and all other races were being lumped into death camps right? You do know about Lebensborn and what the ultimate goal of Himmlers SS was? The cranial measurements,the super race,the blonde haired and blue eyed future of the world?You do know about all these things don't you?I'm going to take a wild guess and say no.I suppose you deny the holocaust too then.Or should we forget all about that because we had no Irish in there either.

My own grandad fought in WW1 on Redmonds con job, then fought in war of independence here after WW1, then fought for pro-treaty side in civil war and then fought in WWII as it was better pay than in poverty sticken Ireland at the time.
Yes he was lucky to have survived all those conflicts, it was alcoholism that got him in the end.

No disrespect to your grandad,or to my great grandad for that matter,a man that spends his whole life fighting,will forget what he is fighting for,and if buying a 2 pound ****ing poppy from someone giving up some free time to sell them ensures that their memory doesn't fade away then I will ****ing do it.

My suggestion to you is research a little more than watching Saving Private Ryan or Michael Collins. Tell you what,ask your teacher history when your back to little old school on monday morning,dont forget your packed lunch and to clean behind your ears!

Voipjunkie

Jigsaw wrote: »

I was born in a hospital in NI and have lived my whole life in NI apart from 3.5 yrs in Manchester. I consider myself an Irish Citizen. I know that "legally speaking" I am a UK citizen but I do not consider myself as such.

Anyway, I am thread hijacking here and that is not on. Although I might start another thread on this topic I have on my mind as it is bugging me recently.

If you were born in NI prior to the citizenship referendum then you are entitled to Irish citizenship as a birth right and even after that given that your Father was from Donegal and your Mother from NI you would still be entitled to Irish citizenship.

You are only legally speaking a UK citizen if you want to be one if you do not want UK citizenship you are quite entitled to claim your Irish citizenship.

deadprez

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

Id wear one.

I see it as a symbol of peace and rememberence.

perfect post!good man!

Voipjunkie

deadprez wrote: »

Ok your REALLY need to take a history lesson. You do know why the jews and all other races were being lumped into death camps right? You do know about Lebensborn and what the ultimate goal of Himmlers SS was? The cranial measurements,the super race,the blonde haired and blue eyed future of the world?You do know about all these things don't you?I'm going to take a wild guess and say no.I suppose you deny the holocaust too then.Or should we forget all about that because we had no Irish in there either.



!

Tell you what come back and tell us how many people were murdered by the British in establishing and defending their empire.
Germans were not the only ones with a superiority complex.

As I have said if it was a symbol commemorating those that fought and died defeating the Nazis then no problem unfortunately the British legion says the 2 world wars and OTHER wars and its those OTHER wars that I have a huge problem with.

I have no intention of commemorating German Soldiers who carried out mass murder and I equally have no intention of commemorating British Soldiers who carried out mass murder.

deadprez

yeah,ya know what,I'm done here.The poppies purpose seems to have escaped the majority of this thread. We're supposed to learn from history,not emulate it.go **** yourselves.

gyppo

deadprez wrote: »

yeah,ya know what,I'm done here.The poppies purpose seems to have escaped the majority of this thread. We're supposed to learn from history,not emulate it.go **** yourselves.

Your coat ............

arybvtcw0eolkf

I'd wear one if it was generally accepted here, but its not.

Both my great-grandfather's fought in WWI and grandfather in WWII. My father served in the military and so am I.

So there's a long history of military involvment in my family, for Ireland and the English crown and I'd like to show my support of the British legion by buying and wearing a poppy. Because I believe when I was a child and times were tough the British Legion (here in Dublin) looked after us.

The poppy can be bought from the British Legion here in Ireland, and through the British Embassessy in Dublin.

doolox

Just finished reading Galway in the Great War by local historian William Henry whose grandfather,along with several hundred Galwaymen, fought in the Great war in 1914-18.
It goes into great detail on how these men fought for what was considered right and decent at the time and the enormous social pressure put on people to join up.
The seismic political changes of 1921 changed all that and they are forgotten now.
I'd imagine one would get a lot of flack and criticism in "republican" circles for wearing the poppy in Ireland.
What it would need would be for our leaders to take up the example and start the trend. I dont see that happening any time soon.As to the question of "joining up" for any future war, based on their treatment in the past I would decline.........

cc

delta_bravo wrote: »

But during WWI we would have been part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

During WWII we were the Free State during the "the emergency", but we still had huge numbers in the British Army, so can still wear one with an easter lilly in my opinion.

_blank_

Did they beat the drum slowly, did they play the fife lowly,
did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down?
Did the bands play the last post and chorus?
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest?

Now see how the sun shines o’er the green field of France
There’s a warm summer breeze makes the red poppies dance,
And see how the sun shines from under the clouds
There’s no gas or barbed wire, there’s no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard it’s still no-man’s land
The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
To man’s blind difference to his fellow man
To a whole generation who were butchered and damned.

Did they beat the drum slowly, did they play the fife lowly,
did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down?
Did the bands play the last post and chorus?
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest?

Now young Willie McBride, I can’t help wonder why
Do all those who lie here know why did they die.
And did they believe when they answered the call
Did they really believe that this war would end wars.
Well the sorrow, the suffering, the glory the pain,
The killing, the dying they were all done in vain
For young Willie McBride it all happened again
And again and again and again and again.

ibh

Mairt wrote: »

I'd wear one if it was generally accepted here, but its not.

Does it really matter if it's not generally accecpted here?? I have no problem wearing one and i don't do it to rub it in anyones face who disagrees, but i feel if you think it's a noble / worthwhile gesture you shouldn't let other peoples opinions influence you.

Perhaps your situation is different with being in the Defence Forces? I don't know what the general opinion in our Defence Forces is regarding the Irish people who fought in WW1.

Dinxminx

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

My boyfriend's father was in London around the time of an IRA bombing, and one day when he was stopping at a routine traffic check the police looked at his licence, saw he was irish, dragged him and his friend out of the car, beat them and then kept them in jail for the night.

For no other reason than that they were irish and their car was green (the bombers' car had been green also - not the same make though).

Board-in-work

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

The poppy is a symbol of the war dead, it is not only a symbol of the British war dead, but of the many nationalities who fought for the British. Ireland was a part of the empire at one time, and many Irish men died on Flanders Fields. We owe these Irish a debt of honour, and if that means buying a poppy, then sign me up.

- it is not a commemoration of acts of war.

gyppo

Mairt wrote: »

So there's a long history of military involvment in my family, for Ireland and the English crown and I'd like to show my support of the British legion by buying and wearing a poppy. Because I believe when I was a child and times were tough the British Legion (here in Dublin) looked after us.

Each to his own. Be assured though that other British "legions" certainly looked after people in this country after WW1. Based on these atrocities, I would never consider wearing an emblem which is inherently british in tradition.

phasers

I was in London this week and a lady in the tube station asked if I wanted to contribute to the poppy fund, she said any amount is fine.
when I informed her I had no money she looked at me like I was some kind of monster and walked away.

anyway, on topic I see no problem with Irish people wearing them but I don't buy any of that charity badge stuff

Terry

starn wrote: »

Simple and Ignorant. What you are is a Kn0bjockey. Ya tool

Banned for personal abuse.

deadprez wrote: »

yeah,ya know what,I'm done here.The poppies purpose seems to have escaped the majority of this thread. We're supposed to learn from history,not emulate it.go **** yourselves.

Warning given.

gyppo wrote: »

Your coat ............

STFU.


Mairt, my father was a member of the defence forces and always wore a poppy.
He didn't care whether or not it was socially acceptable.

He was given the poppy every year by some guy up the road.
I've no idea where he gets them, but he leaves one of my fathers grave every year.

Hrududu

The poppy is a symbol of the war dead, it is not only a symbol of the British war dead, but of the many nationalities who fought for the British. Ireland was a part of the empire at one time, and many Irish men died on Flanders Fields. We owe these Irish a debt of honour, and if that means buying a poppy, then sign me up.

Like others have said it doesnt just commemerate the dead of WWI, or WWII, if it did then attitudes might be different. The Irish that fought in both wars should be remembered. But the poppy represents other wars. We were once the enemy.

gurramok

deadprez wrote: »

Your not serious with this right? Your not actually suggesting that due to our "neutrality" we would not be harmed by the Nazi war machine?I can't believe I'm reading this

Your gone now as you had said, so those that disagree with wearing a poppy is equal to being a holocaust deniar plus need history lessons, absurd.

As said in other posts, a poppy commemorates all British war dead from the concentration camps perpertuated by the British in the Boer War to the Black and Tans who persecuted the Irish and up to the recent Gulf wars.

That alone is enough reasons not to wear one. As i said before, we need an Irish idea to remember our own Irish dead.

latenia

Nobody here seems to realise what the poppies are really about-they're part of the apparatus of blind patriotism and archaic pageantry the British establishment uses to control its underclass and poison their minds into believing that getting your brains blown out in a foreign land is a noble pursuit.

Think of those ceremonies at the cenotaph with flags, medals, marching, fanfares and so on-they'd almost have you think that war is good and necessary. What filthy little chav from Peckham wouldn't like to be honoured like this?
"Cos Engurland's the best innit?"

The Somme has already been discussed here without stating what it really was-the use of commoners as cannon fodder in an experimental war. Instead we get empty phrases such as "remembering" or "commemorating" the Somme as if it was some accidental tragedy.

Nevyn

MYOB wrote: »

Whats the lily at easter for? Excuse my non-christianness for not knowing....

You can get poppies here, at least in Dublin theres usually a few sellers.

The easter lilly contains the colours of the irish flag, my grandfather wore a lilly pin and he had them on his grave when he was buried. He was as a lad a runner during 1916 carrying notes between the positions. It is symbol for those who fought for this countries independence and I hate to see it hijacked and solely associated with terrorists.

As for the poppy I see no harm in them what so ever.

Many people for get the numbers of irish men who went and fought in the irish guards and brigades and then came home and were put in army houses and given pensions and to this day they look after the families of soldiers.

On the other side of my family my great grandfather had his kneecaps blow off and replaced with sliver ones in WWI and he was put in the army cottages in Irish town, the entire cul de sac was built for returning soilders but my great grandparents were the only Catholics.


The poppy is to remind us of those that have died and that they were misses and mourned and that war is a horrible thing.

WWI and WWII wiped out nearly a generation of young men and changed how our society is in many ways. Both wars showed how horrible and futile such wars are and I think the fact the poppy remind us of that and the fact that people are being told history and reminded how many sons of Eireann went and died in those wars is a good thing.

As for all those full of piss and vingear go and stand at the 'traitors' arch, the fuilers arch at St Stephens green and take the time to read all the names and have a think about how the death of each one gutted a family who needed the money that was sent home in order to live.

stovelid

Peared wrote: »

Yeah deadprez we're simple and ignorant. Sure jaysus we are a simple folk.

Well, just some of us.

Many Irish people died in the great war, and while I wouldn't necessarily wear a poppy myself, I have no problem with people that do.

Fratton Fred

latenia wrote: »

Nobody here seems to realise what the poppies are really about-they're part of the apparatus of blind patriotism and archaic pageantry the British establishment uses to control its underclass and poison their minds into believing that getting your brains blown out in a foreign land is a noble pursuit. .

errr, ok.:rolleyes:

Viva la revolution comrade:D

lisbon_lions

Over the years {here} it has become intrinsically linked with the British Army in the North, who in turn are a symbol of occupation / opression.

Personally I would not wear one.

Esel

Tone it down there, lads! and try to keep it civil in the back. And DesF, stop that caterwauling you call singing. I'll lose me licence if the Sergeant sticks his head in. Now who's the smart-aleck who ordered six pints of Guinness and two Black and Tans?

And Jaysus lads, this fuggin' poll is asking "Would you wear a remeberance Lilly". Bad spellin' an' all, that's the question before the house. Have yez all voted? Good. Now stay on topic or the lot of yez is barred! Six pints of Guinness and two Black and Tans?

Cunny-Funt

latenia wrote: »

Nobody here seems to realise what the poppies are really about-they're part of the apparatus of blind patriotism and archaic pageantry the British establishment uses to control its underclass and poison their minds into believing that getting your brains blown out in a foreign land is a noble pursuit.

Think of those ceremonies at the cenotaph with flags, medals, marching, fanfares and so on-they'd almost have you think that war is good and necessary. What filthy little chav from Peckham wouldn't like to be honoured like this?
"Cos Engurland's the best innit?"

The Somme has already been discussed here without stating what it really was-the use of commoners as cannon fodder in an experimental war. Instead we get empty phrases such as "remembering" or "commemorating" the Somme as if it was some accidental tragedy.

QFT.

WW1 was all about countries playing with their new toys and not about stopping some evil madman. Theres a massive difference between the wars and ww1 is good example of how retarded humanity was/is.

Archeron

I dont like to exclude anyone, so instead of all the different flowers and what not, I just push around a 5 foot high venus fly trap in a wheelbarrow everywhere I go.

*Page*

I wouldn't not because of the british link, but because i dont buy into those things...

But I wouldnt have a problem if someone wore one..

arybvtcw0eolkf

gyppo wrote: »

Each to his own. Be assured though that other British "legions" certainly looked after people in this country after WW1. Based on these atrocities, I would never consider wearing an emblem which is inherently british in tradition.

To each his own so.

LordSutch

I wear a PoppY with pride every year in Dublin (on or around) the 11th, & have done so ever since moving back home ten years ago from England.

Admittedly its not so easy to contribute or receive a PoppY here in the Republic , but you do see PoppY sellers from time to time in Dublin at this time of year, and ususlly when you least expect it on a street corner in the City Centre, or Dun Laoghaire or Bray!

Tens of thousands, yes (Tens of thousands) of Irish men from North & South perished in the Great War (flanders PoppY fields) and tens of thousands of irish men also died in World War II, and I see no reason whatsoever not to remember them, along with our English, Scottish, & Welsh cousins! (I did say tens of thousands, didnt I.)

So I will always wear my PoppY with pride

On the 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month, we will remember them.

lynnlegend

the poppy is to raise funds for those who fought in the british army i think..

invading countrys rape pillage shipping all the food out of a country thats in the middle of a famine attacking middle east countrys for there oil resverses is not as profitable as it was please give genoursley:rolleyes:

EamonnKeane

WW1 was all about countries playing with their new toys and not about stopping some evil madman. Theres a massive difference between the wars and ww1 is good example of how retarded humanity was/is.

WW2 was not like Lord of the Rings, like all wars its causes were complex. It was as much an imperial war as WW1, despite the propaganda.

Sonnenblumen

ArthurF wrote: »

I wear a PoppY with pride every year in Dublin (on or around) the 11th, & have done so ever since moving back home ten years ago from England.

Admittedly its not so easy to contribute or receive a PoppY here in the Republic , but you do see PoppY sellers from time to time in Dublin at this time of year, and ususlly when you least expect it on a street corner in the City Centre, or Dun Laoghaire or Bray!

Tens of thousands, yes (Tens of thousands) of Irish men from North & South perished in the Great War (flanders PoppY fields) and tens of thousands of irish men also died in World War II, and I see no reason whatsoever not to remember them, along with our English, Scottish, & Welsh cousins! (I did say tens of thousands, didnt I.)

So I will always wear my PoppY with pride

On the 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month, we will remember them.

ArthurF - well said with pride and passion. We will never forget the great fallen, who made the ultimate sacrifice so that many could live in peace. It's shameful to encounter so much ignorance and prejudice about the poppy.

To walk the Normandy beaches and visit the nearby war cemeteries is one of life's most humbling but chilling experience.

Good luck ArthurF.

gurramok

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

ArthurF - well said with pride and passion. We will never forget the great fallen, who made the ultimate sacrifice so that many could live in peace. It's shameful to encounter so much ignorance and prejudice about the poppy.

To walk the Normandy beaches and visit the nearby war cemeteries is one of life's most humbling but chilling experience.

Good luck ArthurF.

ArthurF is a self proclaimed Unionist, he is expected to say that

Sonnenblumen wrote:

It's shameful to encounter so much ignorance and prejudice about the poppy.

Sounds like you don't understand what a poppy really means, it remembers all those who fought in every British war including the Boer war(ya know those first concentration camps) and the northern troubles and thats offensive.

Rovi

esel wrote: »

And Jaysus lads, this fuggin' poll is asking "Would you wear a remeberance Lilly".

Has the title of the poll been changed?
It's now entitled "Would you wear a remeberance Poppy" and I'm pretty sure that when I voted, it was "Would you wear a remeberance Lilly"
My vote (and I suspect, those of may other voters) is now counted on the diametrically opposite side of where I intended it.

*runs off to Conspiracy Theories

Blisterman

Were it not for the british army in world war 2, we'd all be speaking german now, neutrality or not.

AngryBadger

Why would I be wearing a remembrance poppy?

robinph

gurramok wrote: »

Sounds like you don't understand what a poppy really means, it remembers all those who fought in every British war including the Boer war(ya know those first concentration camps) and the northern troubles and thats offensive.

Correct, its for those who fought in the wars and nothing to do with the people who decided to send them to their death. It's the politicians who sent them to war that you have issues with, not those sent to do their dirty work.

Fratton Fred

http://www.doyle.com.au/irish_soldiers_of_the_british_ar.htm

my favourite quote:

The British Army had always used Irishmen, in fact it is has been said "the British Empire was won by the Irish, administered by the Scots and Welsh and the profits went to the English". In recent years the last line was amended to read "lost by the English."

Damn Irish and their imperialism:D

LordSutch

AngryBadger wrote: »

Why would I be wearing a remembrance poppy?

Maybe Post #87 will go some way to explaining why you should.

bill_ashmount

I'd wear one.

Watching Hislop's series recently on CH4 shows the sadness of it all.
I've a lot of respect for those who died fighting, I just don't think I could ever fight for any country/government.

A Dub in Glasgo

Wear a white one instead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Poppy

ateam

It's a British symbol and institution. You don't have Americans wearing poppies.

We wouldn't even know about poppies only for the BBC, Sky etc...

If you want to commemorate Irish people who fought in past wars, design a new distinctly Irish badge or flower, stop copying off the British.

Hagar

Blisterman wrote: »

Were it not for the british army in world war 2, we'd all be speaking german now, neutrality or not.

Were it not for the British we would all be speaking Irish, and so it goes on.