Controversial wrestling opinions

flahavaj

rossie1977 wrote: »

Why didn't i see this thread earlier All of these guys better technical wrestlers than angle :eek: if you had gone and told them that yourself, they would have laughed in your face. That is the same as saying wesley snipes is technically a better basketballer than mj because of their respective movies

you also compared lashley and Shelton Benjamin's amateur careers to angles, wtf, let me add big bad brock lesnar to this list. College wrestlers being compared to a world champion and olympic gold medalist

I don't see how your rather silly basketball comparison bears any relevance to be honest. I was challenged by another poster to name some wrestlers whom in my OPINION are better in a technical sense (note purely technical wrestlers, not more entertaining, not all round better, not capable ofr better matches, but better purely technical professional wrestlers). My opinion is that Angle has gained an unjustified reputation as a technical wrestler when in reality he is one of the spottiest guys around.

As for the Lashley/Angle comparison i was merely trying to illustrate that a good amateur grounding does not in any way guarantee or indeed earn a wrestler the right to be called the greatest technical wrestler of all time, as had been previously claimed. Professional wrestling is a completely different ball game. That's all. I am perfectly aware of their respective achievements as amateur wrestlers, but its really quite irrelevant to the point I was making.

rossie1977

thats of course assuming the wrestlers themselves will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth

OR

Vince could sign up a few guys who don't look like batista, cena et al and push them to the high heavens based on their wrestling skills not on their look, i dunno people like samoa joe spring to mind....

AND/OR

Vince could lighten the schedule he puts his wrestlers through year after year

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

Vince could sign up a few guys who don't look like batista, cena et al and push them to the high heavens based on their wrestling skills not on their look, i dunno people like samoa joe spring to mind....

Unfortunately for Joe, the role of brainless, fat Samoan is already gone.

Vince could lighten the schedule he puts his wrestlers through year after year

He did that in 2002 with the brand extension, Had he not done so, they'd have been working twice the amount of dates (like they were prior to it)

VR!

Bubs101

Part of wrestling is how big people are. Samoa Joe does look the part because he's fast for a big guy though I'm not his biggest fan and it's not always about how big you are, it's about charisma. I don't think Vince has ever had a problem pushing anyone who has charisma but lacks the physique (HBK springs to mind)

flahavaj

validreasoning! wrote: »

Unfortunately for Joe, the role of brainless, fat Samoan is already gone.




VR!

They could bring him in as Umaga's more cerebral younger brother. Dress him up like the genius. Have him cut promos in an English accent reading obscure 12th Century love sonnets and working out unfeasibly complicated feats of multiplication in his head like the Rainman.

Gold.

rossie1977

i blame the likes of superstar billy graham and hogan for being some of the pioneers of roid use in pro-wrestling as much as i blame vince for encouraging its use

very rare vince will push a guy based on charisma alone though

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

I don't think Vince has ever had a problem pushing anyone who has charisma but lacks the physique (HBK springs to mind)

I don't really agree. He'd much sooner push a guy without charisma who has size. Despite his undeniable charisma, I don't see Santino ever getting a serious push. He's made to look a like a nobody whenever he wrestles anyone. And they've got a guy like CM Punk, who is one of the most charismatic wrestlers around, and they've managed to stifle his charisma so much that there's no way he'll be getting pushed because of it

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

I don't really agree. He'd much sooner push a guy without charisma who has size. Despite his undeniable charisma, I don't see Santino ever getting a serious push. He's made to look a like a nobody whenever he wrestles anyone. And they've got a guy like CM Punk, who is one of the most charismatic wrestlers around, and they've managed to stifle his charisma so much that there's no way he'll be getting pushed because of it

In fairness in the case of Santino, his push is purely on the basis of his incredible charisma alone. He's WOEFULLY green in the ring at the moment and needs a long long time working house shows and honing his skills before he gets to work a proper in ring program. Until then I think he's doing well to be given a spot as Lawler's bitch at the moment to be honest. Anyone who disagrees about his appalling in ring skills obviously didn't witness his utter snoozefest at the last RAW houseshow. I can't even remember his opponent it was so horrible!

As for Punk he's playing the role of vanilla babyface at the moment. I'd like to think that if and when he turns heel he'll get to show some more of thatnatural charisma. He's always been a natural heel for me and if he gets some mic time i have no doubt he'll be gold.

Fozzy

flahavaj wrote: »

In fairness in the case of Santino, his push is purely on the basis of his incredible charisma alone. He's WOEFULLY green in the ring at the moment and needs a long long time working house shows and honing his skills before he gets to work a proper in ring program. Until then I think he's doing well to be given a spot as Lawler's bitch at the moment to be honest. Anyone who disagrees about his appalling in ring skills obviously didn't witness his utter snoozefest at the last RAW houseshow. I can't even remember his opponent it was so horrible!

My point is that a guy who's crap in the ring but has size will be pushed ahead of a guy who's crap in the ring and has charisma. Size comes first and foremost for Vince

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Part of wrestling is how big people are. Samoa Joe does look the part because he's fast for a big guy though I'm not his biggest fan and it's not always about how big you are, it's about charisma. I don't think Vince has ever had a problem pushing anyone who has charisma but lacks the physique (HBK springs to mind)

Oh i was waiting for someone to say that!
Wrong... so wrong. Vince had a huge problem with pushing Shawn initially. Vince wanted Shawn a midcarder for so long and the year of 95 showed. Shawn was uber-over from the end of 94 when he and Nash were split as a tag team. He was second from main event at Wrestlemania XI where it seemed he was inches away from getting the belt, that the crowd were less than pleased when Nash went over. They wanted Shawn v Diesel again. Vince couldn't handle the smaller guy getting more over.

Welcome to decline of the main event scene in 95. Vince being as stubborn as he was refused to allow that to happen and gave the IC title back to Shawn to keep him at midcard. They had Sid turn on Shawn, to give Diesel more face heat when he came to the rescue, but it only made Shawn more over. Then they pushed Diesel v Sid, Diesel v Mabel for most of 95, killing not only the PPV scene but the house show circuit. It was only when Vince decided to pull the plug on Nash's reign at the 95 Survivor Series (See what i did there D-FENS?), that Vince decided he'd give Shawn a crack at the whip. And he did so, but reluctantly, and near the point of financial bankrupcy.

VR!

Bubs101

Fair enough but what about Randy, wouldn't consider him big for a wrestler

ShawnRaven

Orton or Savage?
Gah! On overtime here... will respond when i get home

VR!

rossie1977

Bubs101 wrote: »

Fair enough but what about Randy, wouldn't consider him big for a wrestler

Orton??? big, tall guy

savage on the short side but still wide as house.

Kid Nothing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge8FQiBN_MM

Can anyone seriously say that Orton hasn't been on the juice since this video and look where he is now. Would he have gotten to where he is now looking like he did then? No way!!!

And on the topic of Vince pushing "charisma guys" over "size guys".....Christian enough said.

Bubs101

Christian was getting a push but didn't sign a new contract, he wasn't released

mendoza88

alot of ppl going on about hbk being entertaining he made ladder matches work and so on everytime ive seen him in one he never goes to the top of the ladder even his elbow of the top rope looks mediocre,no way is he entertaining

and amull87 you are so right i didnt think he got that big jesus he must of juiced

flahavaj

mendoza88 wrote: »

alot of ppl going on about hbk being entertaining he made ladder matches work and so on everytime ive seen him in one he never goes to the top of the ladder even his elbow of the top rope looks mediocre,no way is he entertaining

and amull87 you are so right i didnt think he got that big jesus he must of juiced

I guess someone's ability to climb high things is as good a criterion as any whereby to judge a wrestlers entertainment value.:rolleyes:

Fozzy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Christian was getting a push but didn't sign a new contract, he wasn't released

Christian was one of the most over guys on Raw, then he got moved to SD and got barely any attention. Then he left because WWE hadn't taken advantage of his popularity

Jmac24128

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Okay....here's a few more.

Santino Marella has the potential to be as good on the mic as The Rock. He is that funny.

HHH would not be an 11 times world champion if he wasn't married to Steph.

Val Venis is criminally under-pushed. He deserves to be in the IC division.

I can honestly say I have never enjoyed any of Lashley's work.

Candice Michelle is the most improved wrestler in 2007.

TNA is a complete joke right now, and needs to be sorted out now, or it will never compete.

John Cena has been the WWE's best performer this year.

Kennedy is rubbish on the mic.

Chris Benoit should never be inducted into the HOF.

HHH IS AN 11 TIME CHAMP BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS!!! HANDS DOWN!!!!!!! ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WRESTLING..... HE HAS BEEN THE MOST CONSISTANT WRESTLER IN THE PAST 10 YEAR!!! BEATING EVERYONE...... EVERYONE

Jmac24128

Christian was brilliant!! totally agree with that

krudler

Jmac24128 wrote: »

HHH IS AN 11 TIME CHAMP BECAUSE HE IS THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS!!! HANDS DOWN!!!!!!! ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT WRESTLING..... HE HAS BEEN THE MOST CONSISTANT WRESTLER IN THE PAST 10 YEAR!!! BEATING EVERYONE...... EVERYONE

because his missus said he could:D and he didnt "beat" anyone

Jmac24128

do u watch wrestling????? austin, rock, jericho, goldberg, steiner, taker, kane, beat them all!

krudler

Jmac24128 wrote: »

do u watch wrestling????? austin, rock, jericho, goldberg, steiner, taker, kane, beat them all!

no Vince decided they'd lose to him, you do realise the endings are scripted right?

Jmac24128

i know but u still need to be a good wrestler!!!

rossie1977

Jmac24128 wrote: »

i know but u still need to be a good wrestler!!!

no you don't. Ultimate warrior beat every top guy who ever laced up a pair of boots and he couldn't wrestle to save his life, warrior also beat your boy trips rather easily

Kid Nothing

Jmac24128 wrote: »

i know but u still need to be a good wrestler!!!

VR! seriously stop training these kids on how to annoy us!

Jmac24128

times have changed since the Ultimate warrior he was a complete *ool... and when did he pin trips!!!

pingu_girl

Shawn Michaels is riding Lillian Garcia.

Just listen closely the next time she announces his name, its with so much enthusiasm and watch her dance to his theme music as he enters the ring! You heard it here first folks!

Kid Nothing

Jmac24128 wrote: »

times have changed since the Ultimate warrior he was a complete *ool... and when did he pin trips!!!

Wrestlemania XII

ShawnRaven

amull87 wrote: »

VR! seriously stop training these kids on how to annoy us!

That joke is wearing thin at this stage.
VR!

ShawnRaven

Fozzy wrote: »

Christian was one of the most over guys on Raw, then he got moved to SD and got barely any attention. Then he left because WWE hadn't taken advantage of his popularity

I'm pretty sure i read that the reason he didn't sign another contract because he was lowballed and Christian didn't sign the lower paying contract.

VR!

Jmac24128

Christian didnt sign a new contract because he was tired of travelling and tna is always on in miami!

Fozzy

Jmac24128 wrote: »

times have changed since the Ultimate warrior he was a complete *ool... and when did he pin trips!!!

At Wrestlemania 12 I think it was. Beat him in about a minute if I'm right

EDIT: Ah, in before me

validreasoning! wrote: »

I'm pretty sure i read that the reason he didn't sign another contract because he was lowballed and Christian didn't sign the lower paying contract.

Same sort of reason. Getting offered a lower contract obviously proved to him that they wouldn't capitalise on his popularity and push him

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

Orton??? big, tall guy

savage on the short side but still wide as house.

People forget how insanely over Savage was at the time he'd turned face. For those who weren't watching at the time. Savage lost the IC title to Steamboat at Mania III and then went on a chase for the title. Steamboat then lost the title to Honky and Savage was the first to congratulate him and Honky gave him a title shot (heel v heel matches weren't uncommon mid 80s). Crowd instantly turned on Savage's side so much as they hated Honky that much. Honky got himself DQ'd to keep the title. And the Harts and Honky beat Savage to a pulp. Liz went to the back and came back with Hogan and the megapowers were born.

Real life however says Hogan wanted to go back to Hollywood to start shooting cinematic stinkbomb, No Holds Barred. So they pulled the twin referee thing on The Main Event to vacate the title. With Hogan gone, Savage was the next popular face. He wasn't as big as Hogan, but he was ripped, he had charisma, and he had wrestling talent. He also had the drawing power as Savage and DiBiase sold out house shows to beat the band over the course of 1988. Vince knew Savage would be the next big face after Hogan, hence why he put the belt on him. Despite the fact that it was promised to DiBiase initially, but put it on Savage to shut Honky up because Honky threatened to jump to NWA with the IC belt when he was meant to drop it to Savage, but Savage then threaten to shoot on Honky on live TV.

VR!

pingu_girl

Heres another one I always found odd in a wwf silvervison video called smack em wack em. From either 92 or 93 the bushwackers host the video but there faces are not real! There like wearing masks or something its very odd but check it out if you have the video.

rossie1977

Fozzy wrote: »

At Wrestlemania 12 I think it was. Beat him in about a minute if I'm right

1 minute 40 seconds but who is counting

krudler

rossie1977 wrote: »

no you don't. Ultimate warrior beat every top guy who ever laced up a pair of boots and he couldn't wrestle to save his life, warrior also beat your boy trips rather easily

well ****ing said!

krudler

Jmac24128 wrote: »

times have changed since the Ultimate warrior he was a complete *ool... and when did he pin trips!!!

what about Batista? cant wrestle worth a lick and has beaten most of the roster at some point (including Mr Helsmley:D) John Cena, hardly a technically gifted wrestler, (made Mr Helmsley tap out:D) hell even Vince holds a victory for the title over your precious HHH

Fozzy

In fairness now, HHH did manage to beat both the tag champs without breaking a sweat and was able to destroy the only other decent tag team on the show, along with Carlito, all at the same time recently, so there aren't many that can come close to him in terms of burying beating other guys