North Western Health Board Cutbacks = Bonus

John Doherty

Hi,

i've received information from a very reliable source working from inside the NWHB that the reason for some of the cutbacks in staff is due to players higher up the food chain receiving "bonuses" for spending less of the budget allocated to them. (next budget is near)

what do you think about this?

also, it would be important to discover how many days of the year these
supervisor/manager staff take off..because they are still being paid, but never available when you call.

i've had experience with this myself, have you noticed it?

You call, only to be re-directed to some other person, only to be re-directed again and again..
or the staff there don't know the answer to your question, or the person that does know isn't available - off sick or on holiday.

whats the problem?
seems like SERIOUSLY incompetent management in charge is the reason for failing health services.

so people will suffer/die as a result of greedy management getting their "bonus" - how sad.

EDIT:

found related story on sligo hospital from last month here

Senna

Does not surprise me in the least.
But receiving bonus for cutting expensive isn't anything new and it's openly said that the cutbacks are to slash the budget.

The problem is, the staff being cutback are the only staff that can be cutback, i.e agency and contract staff. Its not a case of 'these are the best staff to get rid of', these are the only staff they can get rid off, because as we all know, public employees would have to be paid huge redundancy if they were to be sacked.

The cutback should be admin and general services staff.
I read that the HSE is overstaffed by 14,000 administration staff and that is a cost of €850m per year. This may be an exaggeration, but i think it was looking at the amount of staff in 1997 compared to 2007, i.e 14,000 more now than 1997. and at the time the HSE was introduced, they said it would lead to a streamlining of staff.

As said before, if any public organization was a private business, it would have went belly-up years ago.
Managers have cussie jobs and aren't accountable of their actions, this bloated bureaucracy remains untouched while patients suffer.
these cutbacks are the desperate actions of an organization of headless fish.

donegalman1

The mamoth organisation this is, anyone who'd succeed in getting costs down will be rewarded. Its not only the public service that operates on this principal and one or two local companies are at this too.

Having said that, the blatant sacrifice of services to meet budgets is evident, though the customer, us, cannot it seems learn that these things should be addressed by politicians and when the politicians contracts are up for renewal, other matters seem more important. It beats me how politicians will never be forced to resign by their own even when its obvious the public are deeply unhappy at their performance. Imagine if politicians could be up for a performance review from a truely independant, knowlegable committee who had the power to fire mid term.

Having said that, next generl election, we will at best pick from a bad lot who have spin and publicity directors at their side and we have only the electorate to blame ie. ourselves.

il gatto

donegalman1 wrote: »

The mamoth organisation this is, anyone who'd succeed in getting costs down will be rewarded. Its not only the public service that operates on this principal and one or two local companies are at this too.

Having said that, the blatant sacrifice of services to meet budgets is evident, though the customer, us, cannot it seems learn that these things should be addressed by politicians and when the politicians contracts are up for renewal, other matters seem more important. It beats me how politicians will never be forced to resign by their own even when its obvious the public are deeply unhappy at their performance. Imagine if politicians could be up for a performance review from a truely independant, knowlegable committee who had the power to fire mid term.

Having said that, next generl election, we will at best pick from a bad lot who have spin and publicity directors at their side and we have only the electorate to blame ie. ourselves.

Here, here. The nation spendes 5 years on Live Line bitching about the government, only to go out and re-elect them at the end of their term.
Apparently 1 in 3 of the HSE staff don't know what their job is, and despite employing thousands of people to run the Health Service instead of the bloated, ineffectual health boards, not one redundency has been made in those health boards. Meanwhile, frontline staff are laid off in an attempt to keep spending under controll. And in the middle of this debacle, minister for Health, Mary Harney (she of the seemingly unelectable party) receives a substantial payrise. I really wonder if other countries would accept such flagrant disregard for the publics wishes from their political leaders. I doubt it. Resignations and early retirements would be the order of the day.

Gillie

John Doherty wrote: »

Hi,

i've received information from a very reliable source working from inside the NWHB that the reason for some of the cutbacks in staff is due to players higher up the food chain receiving "bonuses" for spending less of the budget allocated to them. (next budget is near)

what do you think about this?

also, it would be important to discover how many days of the year these
supervisor/manager staff take off..because they are still being paid, but never available when you call.

i've had experience with this myself, have you noticed it?

You call, only to be re-directed to some other person, only to be re-directed again and again..
or the staff there don't know the answer to your question, or the person that does know isn't available - off sick or on holiday.

whats the problem?
seems like SERIOUSLY incompetent management in charge is the reason for failing health services.

so people will suffer/die as a result of greedy management getting their "bonus" - how sad.

EDIT:

found related story on sligo hospital from last month here

Sorry to burst your bubble but that's absolute rubbish!
There is no incentive for managers in the HSE to spend less of their budget!
If a manager gets a certain amount to spend and he doesn't spend say 50K then that 50K is gone for next years budget.

Trust me. I worked in the HSE for years and every year from Novemeber to December they scramble to spend their budgets because if they don't they won't get it the following year. You can't blame them in that regard! We're not talking about huge amounts of money here either so they a wasting money elsewhere!

Having said all that I would agree with most of the other comments posted above.

John Doherty

Gillie wrote:

Sorry to burst your bubble but that's absolute rubbish!

burst bubble? rubbish?? what? says who? ..you?

maybe you should do less quoting in future, Gillie, and actually read the link to the story about sligo - is that rubbish too?

i could say alot more right now, but i don't want to go off the real important issue here.
my source has worked in the health board for nearly 20 years, whats your experience?
are you saying this person is a liar? a person you don't even know.

when was the last time you worked in health board - times/policies change, thats obvious.

muffler

Gillie wrote: »

If a manager gets a certain amount to spend and he doesn't spend say 50K then that 50K is gone for next years budget...............................and every year from Novemeber to December they scramble to spend their budgets because if they don't they won't get it the following year.

Same principles as the Councils work to but just bear one thing in mind - The HSE have been asked to curtail and indeed cut back entirely in their expenditure this year. I believe there were targets set in relation to savings so things nowadays may be completely different from when you worked with them

Gillie

John Doherty wrote: »

burst bubble? rubbish?? what? says who? ..you?

maybe you should do less quoting in future, Gillie, and actually read the link to the story about sligo - is that rubbish too?

i could say alot more right now, but i don't want to go off the real important issue here.
my source has worked in the health board for nearly 20 years, whats your experience?
are you saying this person is a liar? a person you don't even know.

when was the last time you worked in health board - times/policies change, thats obvious.

I withdraw my rubbish comment. That was unfair. Of course I am not going to suggest that someone I have never met is a liar.

I only left 2 years ago but I would still work with them closely.

I did not read the article until now and was only responding to what was visible in your post.

In my Limited experience I would say that the thing about bonuses being handed out in the circumstances mentioned is simply not true but I could be wrong I guess?

Is your source still with the HB? If so how are they affected/implicated?
Surely this would have to be all over the news if it were true?

Just my two cents...

muffler

Gillie wrote: »

In my Limited experience I would say that the thing about bonuses being handed out in the circumstances mentioned is simply not true but I could be wrong I guess?

Just following on from that comment I never knew until about 6 months ago that Donegal County Council are paying bonuses to their department managers. I dont know if this is the case with other local authorities but in light of this thread it seems to be the "in thing" in management now. God only knows why.

ednwireland

the bit that scares me is 6 grade a managers in 2000 600 + in 2007 i really beleive this is where most of the problems lie.
every organisation has a middle management build up especially in good years when they are trying to hold on to staff but the difference is private companies cull those people every few years, you have to to keep efficient.
i really beleive no gov. wil sort this out because the number of layoffs would probably lose them the next election
how many redundancies after the formation of the hse - none how can this organisation be more efficient ?

too many chiefs not enough Indians has never been truer in the case of the hse

jimmycrackcorm

John Doherty wrote: »

Hi,

i've received information from a very reliable source working from inside the NWHB that the reason for some of the cutbacks in staff is due to players higher up the food chain receiving "bonuses" for spending less of the budget allocated to them. (next budget is near)

what do you think about this?

I think it's a total load of crap. Unless your "Very reliable source" works iin accounts authorising bonuses then it's the grapevine talking.

also, it would be important to discover how many days of the year these
supervisor/manager staff take off..because they are still being paid, but never available when you call.

i've had experience with this myself, have you noticed it?

My experience is limited to wondering how so many public service staff sick days are taken compare dot the private sector.

You call, only to be re-directed to some other person, only to be re-directed again and again..
or the staff there don't know the answer to your question, or the person that does know isn't available - off sick or on holiday.

whats the problem?
seems like SERIOUSLY incompetent management in charge is the reason for failing health services.

so people will suffer/die as a result of greedy management getting their "bonus" - how sad.

Not greedy management. Totally ineffective management aided and abetted by greedy unions. Anyone want to change alight bulb?

found related story on sligo hospital from last month here

And this proves....?
The sooner we get more private healthcare , the sooner we get more efficient healthcare. And yet, isn't it funny how so many people complain about the cost of private health insurance yet can afford to pay much more for Drink and cigarettes.

il gatto

Hey, lay off the cigarettes. They've never hurt anyone.......Oh! Wait:D

tuppence

Should this not be in the north west as topical to all?

muffler

tuppence wrote: »

Should this not be in the north west as topical to all?

I was leaving this sit for a wee while to see if the topic would be popular or not but as theres quite a few replies I will move it to the NW

John Doherty

I think it's a total load of crap

Everything you said in your post was just that.

And judging from your other posts - this doesn't affect you in the slightest, and you're arrogant enough to believe your opinion counts - trust me, it doesn't.

If i say what position this person works in, or the reason for how they found out, then it gives away who that person is.

You can choose to ridicule it, or you can first try and do some research, then make a judgement based on that.

Have a valid arguement against what i've said, Jimmycrackcorm - you haven't done this.

I'm 100% sure that when you do your research, you'll find out that its all true.

Another story which i think is relevant is Professor Drumm taking a bonus of 80,000 euro not too long ago.

Yes Jimmy, its all crap, of course. :rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

John Doherty wrote: »

Everything you said in your post was just that.

Sorry, no it is not.

And judging from your other posts - this doesn't affect you in the slightest, and you're arrogant enough to believe your opinion counts - trust me, it doesn't.

Naughty, Naughty - not nice to be so arrogant as to say your opinion counts and not mine. Actually, it does affect me and I absolutely don't trust you which was the point of my post.

If i say what position this person works in, or the reason for how they found out, then it gives away who that person is.

You can choose to ridicule it, or you can first try and do some research, then make a judgement based on that.

Over the years I've heard enough from people in various workplaces speculating about pay rises, promotions and bonuses to know that there is more foundation in begrudgery than fact. All you are saying is that you know a man who knows a man who has a dog.

Have a valid arguement against what i've said, Jimmycrackcorm - you haven't done this.

I'm 100% sure that when you do your research, you'll find out that its all true.

I think you should be the one providing the valid argument after all you are the one making the accusation without solid grounds. Hearsay doesn't count.

Another story which i think is relevant is Professor Drumm taking a bonus of 80,000 euro not too long ago.

How is this relevant? Are you seriously going to suggest that for an 80k bonus we should expect Drumm to solve all the problems in the Health sector?
In my mind his bonus is justified for standing up the hospitals and saying that they can no longer be so wasteful of their budgets. What about him making a stand against the pharmaceutical profiteering, would the millions saved there not justify the bonus?

Wouldn't you be better arguing that the unions should insist on getting rid of the huge layer of bureaucracy that is the administrative staff? but then you probably wouldn't because it's likely that your friendly "reliable source" is not a front line care worker.

Yes Jimmy, its all crap, of course.

I'm glad that you agree with me :rolleyes:

Paddy20

As far as I am aware, The North Westrn Healh Board , no longer exists as it has been taken over by the HSE ?.. am I wrong.

I will comment further if I am correct.

P. :cool:

Gillie

Paddy20 wrote: »

As far as I am aware, The North Westrn Healh Board , no longer exists as it has been taken over by the HSE ?.. am I wrong.

I will comment further if I am correct.

P. :cool:

Your correct Paddy but in realilty for the staff on the ground (actually doing some work) all that's changed is the name!

Paddy20

Gillie wrote: »

Your correct Paddy but in realilty for the staff on the ground (actually doing some work) all that's changed is the name!

.

O.K. but at least give them a chance to establish themselves, believe me I will be the first in the queue if I do not see dramatic changes taking place for the benefit of all in the North-West, and in particular Cancer and Heart Attack victims who die , simply because of a lack of proper diagnostic facilities in the N.W..

P. :cool:

John Doherty

no, it is not? - IMHO it was, with exception for comment on cigarettes & alcohol - i don't smoke or drink FYI, but i guess anybody that does, should be banned from the hospital, right?

you don't trust me?, i care less.
there is no begrudgery, thats just another assumption of yours..yet again.

Are you seriously going to suggest that for an 80k bonus we should expect Drumm to solve all the problems in the Health sector?

who the hell said anything about him solving problems in the health sector?

Jimmycrackcorm, justify to me why front line staff are being cutback, while this man and others get a bonus? where are the priorties? its almost like the government don't want the health sector to work - just degrade it to the point where the is no other option, but to drop dead, or go privately.

standing up to pharmaceutical profiteering? you're hilarious..and how exactly has he done this?
the whole industry is corrupt, a man like David Healy is someone who truly stands up to this monster, not professor Drumm.

if i was to even start debating with you some of crimes these pharma guys get up to, you'd probably say that was all crap too.

you just love to disagree.

Gillie

John Doherty wrote: »

the whole industry is corrupt, a man like David Healy is someone who truly stands up to this monster, not professor Drumm.

Who's David Healy?

jimmycrackcorm

who the hell said anything about him solving problems in the health sector?

Jimmycrackcorm, justify to me why front line staff are being cutback, while this man and others get a bonus? where are the priorties? its almost like the government don't want the health sector to work - just degrade it to the point where the is no other option, but to drop dead, or go privately.

Because the money going into the health system is being squandered right left and centre and it's about time someone put a stop to it. You should explain to me why the massive layer of bureaucracy cannot be cut instead of front line staff? But of course it is better press it front line staff get cut instead. Who does that suit?

ithe whole industry is corrupt, a man like David Healy is someone who truly stands up to this monster, not professor Drumm.

f i was to even start debating with you some of crimes these pharma guys get up to, you'd probably say that was all crap too.

you just love to disagree.

Actually I don't disagree with you on David Healy or about that industry but that's only from a medical perspective whereas this topic is financial. If the HSE cut millions off their drugs bill then Drumm deserves his bonus.