Homebirths

aoife13/01/2008

Just thought i'd ask if anyone has had one or even if they exist in ireland.

silja

Haven't had one but they definitely exist; I know several people online who had one, and on one of the Irish parenting websites (Rollercoaster.ie), there is even a forum especially for discussion of homebirths. I believe you are only "allowed" one if it's looking like an easy birth, ie no previous cesarians, not twins, no pregnancy complications, baby with head down etc.

Lizzykins

My idea of hell! Give me a nice clean hospital any day of the week!

Kildrought

anyone has had one or even if they exist in ireland

Yes and yes - would also recommend rollercoaster.ie - there is also a Home Birth Association - http://www.homebirth.ie/

nice clean hospital

In regards to cleanliness/hygiene I'm willing to bet my home against any of the maternity hospitals any day of the week and would win hands down.

Nevyn

people please we know that a certain sponsored professional parenting site exists and I am sure if the op google home birth she would have see link for it there but she choose to ask the community here for thier experiences and views.

If posters want to link to info from there fine but if I start seening threads and post being answered with just that link to that website it will be considered shilling.

Ayla

OP - I really wanted to have a homebirth, and the more I read about it the more I wanted one. I looked on the homebirth.ie site, and it was the clearest informative site I found.

I wound up not having one b/c the nearest independent midwife (essential for a homebirth) was over 1.5 hours away. If I remember right, the homebirth site lists the registered midwives who do homebirths, and you'll need to contact one of them long before the birth to meet with them. From what I found, there are a short supply of them, and they are booked long in advance (to the point that people book with them before becoming pregnant).

All the best of luck to you. If you're interested in homebirths/natural deliveries, I read a fantastic and inspirational book...as soon as I can remember the title I'll pass it on. The entire book's written from women who had natural childbirths, and it really hit home that labour doesn't need to be a horrendous experience.

If I can plan early enough the next time around I'll have a homebirth.

Lizzykins

I know one girl who had her third child at home. She was a real earth mamma. She used a birthing pool and during the event the other kids came in to have a look.
What would happen if I tried to do that would be that the door bell would never stop with kids in and out. My older ones would have been bringing all and sundry in to see the action! Add to that the milkman calling for his money and the pools guy and hubby running around looking for cash. In the end I would probably have gotten out of the pool to sort them all out!
I think if you have a home birth that you don't get the rest you do in hospital. You will surely end up getting up to make dinners etc and sort out younger kids.
When I had my 4 I got great rest in hospital and the babies were taken to the nursery at night. In my grandmother's time there was always an auntie or older relative to give a hand with a newborn but much of that is gone now with people living miles from parents.

PS aoife 13/01/2008. I'm assuming that is your due date? I was due my first on the same date 1990 but he came early on St Stephen's Day so mind yourself! Dopey me thought I had food poisoning /kidney infection! My mother was dead so I couldn't ask her for advice.

Nevyn

I didnt' get any rest what so ever in hospital after having either of mine, first time around I was public second time around semi private, I could not wait to get home to get some real sleep.

Lizzykins

I had all 4 of mine in Mount Carmel and got nearly a full nights sleep most nights. It set me up for the next few weeks. I remember the gynae saying to me going home to prepare for the worst 6 weeks of my life! He knew what he was talking about!

aoife13/01/2008

Lizzykins wrote: »

I know one girl who had her third child at home. She was a real earth mamma. She used a birthing pool and during the event the other kids came in to have a look.
What would happen if I tried to do that would be that the door bell would never stop with kids in and out. My older ones would have been bringing all and sundry in to see the action! Add to that the milkman calling for his money and the pools guy and hubby running around looking for cash. In the end I would probably have gotten out of the pool to sort them all out!
I think if you have a home birth that you don't get the rest you do in hospital. You will surely end up getting up to make dinners etc and sort out younger kids.
When I had my 4 I got great rest in hospital and the babies were taken to the nursery at night. In my grandmother's time there was always an auntie or older relative to give a hand with a newborn but much of that is gone now with people living miles from parents.

PS aoife 13/01/2008. I'm assuming that is your due date? I was due my first on the same date 1990 but he came early on St Stephen's Day so mind yourself! Dopey me thought I had food poisoning /kidney infection! My mother was dead so I couldn't ask her for advice.

yeah that is my date,my partners birthday is the 5th of jan so he's hoping for that day. As long as the baby is healthy i'm not bothered what day,earlier the better as its getting heavy now.

Ayla

Lizzykins wrote: »

I remember the gynae saying to me going home to prepare for the worst 6 weeks of my life! He knew what he was talking about!

Now, I don't know about anyone else here, but I can't imagine comments like this will be helpful to the OP as she's approaching the birth of her child.

Of course newborns are challenging, but I found the early days/weeks/months of my daughter's life to be the most amazing and wonderful moments of mine.

I truly believe a lot of the childbirth and post-delivery experiences are determined by your own mindset, so if you go into the labour and first days thinking they'll be terrible/horrible/painful/etc then they will be. You don't even give yourself the chance to enjoy them.

When I was pregnant I read as much as I could about what was happening and what might happen during labour. But then when I realized all I was reading was preparing me for the worst, and not showing me the best, I scrapped it all. I started looking for stories told by women who enjoyed their childbirthing experiences (yes it can be enjoyable!), and I think that *really* helped me through mine.

I think it's popular to complain about labour and the early weeks, but I think it's a self-perpetuating cycle. If you go into something thinking it'll be alright, chances are it will be.

And before everyone jumps on me with their own experiences of horrendous birthing stories, let's remember we're here to support the OP and the time she's soon to go through. What good will it do her if all is said is the negative?

I *loved* being pregnant, and I laughed through my completely natural, drug free labour (as well as cried, bit my husband, and became scared). But I walked out of the delivery room and have enjoyed every precious moment since.

littlebug

I think a homebirth sounds lovely. Does anyone know the statistics on homebirths which end up being transferred to hospital? The two people I know who tried homebirths with their first ended up being transferred. I have one friend who had wonderful homebirth with her second (but interestingly opted for hospital for her third) and another who had an easy home birth for her third. If I was ever to have another (not likely ) I'd love a home birth but then I've already had 2 drug free births both of which were quick and easy(6 hours and 2 1/2 hours). If I'd had marathon 24 hour or longer sessions that some women have I'm not sure I could handle it.

Lizzykins

I think what the gynae meant ( in an amusing way I hasten to add) was that bringing home your first baby was an almighty culture shock and to go with the flow. It was not the worst 6 weeks of my life by any means and if I had been led to believe that it was all plain sailing then I would have wondered what I was doing wrong!
And what annoyed the hell out of me was women who had babies already keeping mum(no pun intended) about their own experiences with the result that when I did go into labour I had no idea that was what was wrong with me! Sounds stupid I know but I was 2 and a half weeks before my due date and it was my first. Now if other women had told me what to expect there might not have been the mad panic dash to the hospital. It's a conspiracy of silence!

And I wouldn't go drug free either. Would you have a tooth out without pain relief!! And another thing the ante natal tutor said and I always remember it. There is no one on the steps of the hospital giving out gold medals to the ones who did it drug free and bronze to those who had epidurals. I would go through ten births for the sheer excitement of it all and only stopped at 4 kids due to my age. I loved preganancy and childbirth.

Nevyn

There is a certain conspiracy of silence esp when it is a person's first.
People esp older women who are mother's don't to 'upset' the new mother to be.
Yes it is strenuous and yes it is painful and yes it seems to take over you body but you body prepared for this and between adreline and endorphins works with you to deliver the baby.

For me giving birth was one of the most intense things I have never done with my body and I would do it again but due to slight complications I was glad to have them in a hospital setting but I had a birthing plan and was able for good chats with the midwife assigned with me and was well informed enough to be aware of what was going on and to consent or not give consent for certain procedures.

Saying that all of my mother and all her siblings were born at home in the bed that they were conceived in all 8 of them and there weren't any complications.

Ayla

Lizzykins wrote: »

And I wouldn't go drug free either. Would you have a tooth out without pain relief!! And another thing the ante natal tutor said and I always remember it. There is no one on the steps of the hospital giving out gold medals to the ones who did it drug free and bronze to those who had epidurals.

There is a massive difference between giving birth and having a tooth out. Yes, they can both be painful, however as Thaedydal explained, childbirth is natural and your body works *with* you to push the child out, if you give it the chance. The effect most, if not all, the drugs have is to numb the senses and feelings so you can't use your body's natural strength and intuition.

That said, I had a relatively simple labour. A good friend was in labour for several days before her wee one came around and was so exhausted that she just couldn't push. I understand that, but I think it unfortunate that so many women opt for the drugs before even giving themselves the chance to prove they *can* do it.

As for the "conspiracy" of silence, I honestly think that's a bunch of rubbish. In this day and age, everyone has access to knowledge through the internet, library, GP, hospital, antenatal classes, etc. If someone doesn't know what's going on by now then they obviously haven't taken the initiative to teach themselves. Sorry for posters this may offend, but really...you're going through the most intense experience of your life and you don't educate yourselves? Were you expecting someone to take you by the hand and spoon-feed you the understanding of what your body was doing and how your baby would be born????

Ayla

OP - I mentioned yesterday I'd give you the name of the book I read that helped me have a positive and natural childbirth. The book is Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, by Ina May Gaskin. In it she explains that she and several other midwives assisted with over 1000 births in a natural-living community in the States. Several of the women she assisted contributed their stories to the book. I found this book through my local library (Letterkenny) and it truly changed my perspective on the birthing process.

Littlebug - I don't have stats, but in the book I mentioned above, the author states that in the 1000+ births she and her co-workers assisted, only a handful (i.e.: less then 10) had to be transferred to the hospital. I think that speaks loads for the fact that childbirth is, in fact, a natural process and most often doesn't need medical intervention.

littlebug

Ayla wrote: »

As for the "conspiracy" of silence, I honestly think that's a bunch of rubbish. In this day and age, everyone has access to knowledge through the internet, library, GP, hospital, antenatal classes, etc. If someone doesn't know what's going on by now then they obviously haven't taken the initiative to teach themselves. Sorry for posters this may offend, but really...you're going through the most intense experience of your life and you don't educate yourselves? Were you expecting someone to take you by the hand and spoon-feed you the understanding of what your body was doing and how your baby would be born????

People are just different. I've one friend who actively avoided hearing about or talking about labour and birth... she just didn't want to know and was delighted when she was told she'd have to have a c-sec. It wouldn't be my approach but sure our babies are all as lovely as each other so what harm.

Maybe we should have a birth stories thread so we can be part of that education process. I love telling pregnant women my birth stories so they know that quick and easy births can happen:).

Ayla

littlebug wrote: »

People are just different. I've one friend who actively avoided hearing about or talking about labour and birth... she just didn't want to know and was delighted when she was told she'd have to have a c-sec. It wouldn't be my approach but sure our babies are all as lovely as each other so what harm.

You know, I wouldn't have a problem with women burying their heads in the sand if they wouldn't contribute to the education of other women in the future. In other words, your friend has every right to ignore what is happening to her (and therefore possibly putting her baby at risk), but what about when her child later asks for her advice when she goes to have a baby? She will say how she dreaded the labour, hated the idea of giving birth and was happy that she had to have a c-sec. So what's her child going to think....labour's horrible? A thing to be avoided? That's where the self-perpetuating cycle happens.

Lizzykins

It's great to hear all the different views on this thread! There are as many views as posters. Someone said none of us should be in the dark in regard to childbirth since there is so much online and so many books. When I had my first nearly 18 years ago there was no internet. I did read some books but feel I missed out badly because my mother was dead and I had no one to relate to babywise.None of my friends had babies either. Things changed the minute I had the baby. Suddenly I was part of the club and heard all the experiences. They wouldn't have put me off at all.

Bethany

Having a home birth in Ireland is very difficult and expensive. To the best of my knowledge independent midwifes in Ireland are no longer covered by any professional indeminity insurance.HSE midwiifes do not do home births but in some areas there is a service that allocates you a midwife and you spend minimum time in hospital.
Reference a previous poster who says that home birth sounds lovely.....well it does if you have emergency flying squads that are available in the event of an emergency. Yes I trained as a midwife in a previous life and yes I support the idea of trying to deliver a service that is personal, safe and suits parents and babies.
In Ireland we actually have a very good service. Our infant and maternal mortality rates are amongst the lowest in the world, much lower than the U.S.
Yes it is hospital based but remember once you are safely delivered and baby has had the first check up all you have to do is discharge yourself. They will ensure that the Public Health Nurse follows up your care.
I would sooner have my baby in the sluice room of any of the publc hospitals than deliver at home.WHY ......Because 99per cent of births are straightforward but the 1 per cent that go wrong do so frighteningly fast. I want to be where they can section me within minutes and get out that baby alive and brain intact. In the unlikely event that I experience a post natal bleed , I want blood fast so that I don't die like my greatgrandmother did, leaving five children.
Yes I can hear all of you say 'don't be such a dramatist and don't frighten the woman'.......well actually people have to be told that having babies without the type of emergency services already mentioned when hospital care is available, is to expose yourself and more importantly your unborn to needless risk. The most important objective is to give birth to a live, healthy baby and if at the end of the day you don't get sleep in the ward and you have to share a bathroom does it matter?
People read articles about childbirth and read about these woman who have successful home births. They never hear about the ones that end up rushing to hospital and also the still births. They have forgotten that childbirth can be a hazardous business.
The more any woman reads and gets ready for the experience the better and its very good to ask questions and not be passive. This applies in my opinion to all patients not just public patients. People think by going privately its all plain sailing. Ask yourself......why is he telling me I need a section? Is it medically indicated or is it because he wants to get all his private patients delivered before he heads off racing?
In other words get the best out of the health service provided but please remember safety of baby and mother is the priority.
Not one of my medical or nursing colleagues would have a home delivery and male medical colleagues have told me they would under no circumstance allow home delivery for their wives!!!!

Lizzykins

Couldn't agree more!

Kildrought

certain sponsored professional parenting site

Rollercoaster is an excellent resource I have no difficulty with suggesting people look it up for parenting issues - there is an active thread on that site in regards to Home births, grants, midwives, local support groups, books, etc.,

op google home birth she would have see link for it .

Had she found it then she would hardly have been asking if homebirths 'exist' in Ireland. Alternatively posts could just be answered with a recommendation to go and google it?

it will be considered shilling.

I've no idea what that means. I have no affiliation with rollercoaster.

I had a home birth, but it was almost 15 years ago - things have changed since then.

Kildrought

Having a home birth in Ireland is very difficult and expensive.

Untrue

To the best of my knowledge independent midwifes in Ireland are no longer covered by any professional indeminity insurance.

Untrue

emergency flying squads that are available in the event of an emergency.

If you have a high risk pregnancy or other issues, you won't be having a home birth.

In Ireland we actually have a very good service. Our infant and maternal mortality rates are amongst the lowest in the world, much lower than the U.S.

If your measurement is purely mortality rates then yes I would agree in regards to mother/baby heath, but there is rather more to it than that as you must surely know. Comparison to the US is not really a like for like however.

They will ensure that the Public Health Nurse follows up your care.

I saw a PHN once only...not that I regretted that as frankly she had very little to offer.

1 per cent that go wrong do so frighteningly fast.

How much of this is caused by unneeded intervention and protocols?

The most important objective is to give birth to a live, healthy baby

And that can be, and is, achieved by home birth. That's not to say its for everyone, it isn't.

They never hear about the ones that end up rushing to hospital

On the contrary any independent midwife will discuss this with you on your first consultation.

and also the still births.

this or other accidents never happens in hospital either?

The more any woman reads and gets ready for the experience the better and its very good to ask questions and not be passive.

Agreed, however my experience (though it was 15 yrs ago) was that active participation in the process was not encouraged under any circumstances.

....male medical colleagues have told me they would under no circumstance allow home delivery for their wives!!!!

I thought we were in the 21st Century and wives were no longer chattels...but evidently many of our male medical profession still linger under the impression that we are not?

Bethany

I amend the phrase 'allow wives' in my post to read 'want their wives'. This was a mistake in English and doesn't warrant a rant about people of whom you have no knowledge. If you had read what I had written it was obvious that their reluctance re home births stems from their concerns for their wives and babies .I have to say that I'm lucky not to have come across men who think that way so therefore don't see any great significance in a slip of the pen. It's a long time since I burnt my bra and therefore I don't feel so defensive.
I THINK that home births are expensive, obviously not for some people but for some people several hundred euros is dear.

Fact: ANY birth, home or hospital , low or high risk can turn pearshaped
EMERGENCIES are called emergencies because they occur unexpectedly.Naturally only low risk pregnancies will be taken on by an independent midwife. Otherwise she would be reckless.But if something goes wrong UNEXPECTEDLY and it does happen ,I know where I'd rather be.

A lot has changed in Irish society in the past 15 years including the maternity services.There is far more patient involvement and patients are better informed. So comparisons of experiences from that time have only a certain validity.
Mortality rates are an important indicator: I never suggested they are the only ones.
My support of hospital birth does not mean that I support maternity services that rely heavily on medical intervention. Far from it, my ideal is hospital based with the availablitity of intervention if medically indicated .

Kildrought

reluctance re home births

Almost all medical professionals that I have come across have an issue w. home birth - you did not post anything I haven't heard before.

Hardly surprising when most (all?) of their experience is in regards to hospital birth...very few medical professionals I've met have attended a planned home birth.

Based on experiences others (both staff and patients) have told me about in Dublin Maternity Hospitals, many things - in particular the reliance on 'Active Management', inaccurate advice on b/feeding, poor quality hygiene, insufficent staff resources etc., have not changed and in fact have deteriorated over the last number of years.

Let me nail my colours to the mast here - if I had a high risk pregnancy I'd be checked into the best hospital I could find and be darn glad it was there. But pregnancy is not an illness and the majority are not high risk. Home birth is not for everyone - no doubt about that - but 'scare' stories and incorrect assertions re costs and insurance do no favours to anyone.

Lizzykins

I wouldn't encourage my daughters to have home births. I know all our grandmothers did but as someone( Bethany I think) said births can turn from progressing nicely to dangerous very quickly. I was glad to be in a hospital on my first-he went into distress and was a forceps delivery. I shudder to think what might have happened if I had opted for home birth. Mind you before I'm pulled up on it I believe first births,multiple births and maternal age will preclude a home delivery.

Nevyn

Midwives can use forceps.

Lizzykins

Well I've only been delivered by a midwife on my fourth child so I didn't know that. I think the doc thought as I had the second and third no bother he would leave me to it. There was only myself, midwife and hubby there and it made it a more intimate experience. Compare that to the first where there were a number of people in the room. I would go through the whole lot again if I was younger-45 now.

Ayla

I think in general a lot of people have the impression that midwives who assist with homebirths are completely incapable of handling situations that may arise during the birth. In other words, everything's going well, then suddenly the babe turns/stresses/etc and the midwife throws up her hands, says "oh well I can't do anything" and the situation becomes an emergency crisis only resolved by rushing madly into hospital where (thank god) there are *qualified* practitioners to help.

Midwives are trained to handle any situation that may arise, and they are also educated in how to prevent such situations. That said, of course there are the (extremely) rare occasions where an operating theatre is required. That is why, when I was looking into the idea of having a homebirth, I learned that the HSE will support it if you (1) have a qualified independent midwife present and (2) have an emergency team on call (if not sitting outside the house). As I mentioned in my first post, having the midwife present was my problem as the closest lived over 1.5 hrs away.

The birthing experience in this country, from what I've read and experienced, varies vastly depending on where you live and how much effort you contribute. I took the initiative to educate myself about the labour process, visited the delivery ward before my due date & spoke w/ a midwife, and decided what I did and did not want during my birthing experience. When the day came, I was comfortable, relaxed (as much as possible) and prepared. I had an extremely positive experience and have no problem with planning for a second delivery in the same way.

My point being, if you have (or want) to go to hospital, there is no reason it has to turn into a clinical experience. Tell the midwives exactly what you want (within reason) - for example mine automatically dimmed the lights so it didn't feel so hospital-like. Some also allow music, essential oils and personal items in the labour room. Ask what your local hospital allows and plan accordingly.

Kildrought

First baby or age will not be a factor in home birth. Some midwives (mainly UK as far as I know) will deliver twins - it depends on the midwife - they are not obliged to take on any and everyone.

Ayla

Oh, and I wanted to add, contrary to what Bethany claimed, that homebirths do not have to be any more expensive than any other option. I know my insurance (Vivas) offers up to €3,100 toward homebirth, and I believe other insurance companies do as well.