Atheists using phrases with God in them

Hellm0

tech77 wrote: »

Well yeah I know it sounds funny but i'm guessing there are degrees of atheistic devoutedness (devotion sounds a bit misplaced) which i'm guessing are characterised by use of language among other things.

Better atheist = atheist more assured in their confirmation of the non-existence of God = Someone who would have greater difficulty incorporating religious terms into speech (especially if they used language judiciously which i'm sure a lot of atheists would and in the case of phrases which carry a lot of sentiment).

Dude, the use of "religious language" is in fact just a cultural register, it has nothing to do with faith. Its similar in a way to the use of Phatic Language in that people barely know their using it.

I think your anylising athiesm through the goggles of a dogmatic religion. There is no need for "confirmation" of the non existance of god in athiesm, it is the default assumption and not something to be thought about overly. There is no "Dogma" to adhere to, aside from a shared lack of beleif, the degree's of which are a personal matter.

The Chessplayer

Jesus Christ what a load of old sh!te this thread is.

The Chessplayer

I'd probably be an agnost myself.

What religion were Luke Skywalker and OB1 Kanobi? What did OB1 mean when he said: "the force is strong in you young Skywalker."

Hellm0

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I'd probably be an agnost myself.

What religion were Luke Skywalker and OB1 Kanobi? What did OB1 mean when he said: "the force is strong in you young Skywalker."

Clearly they were Rastafarian

tech77

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

tech77

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

Hellm0

tech77 wrote: »

Do Christians adopt uniquely Muslim phrases with religious terms in them if they are brought up in Muslim culture or vice versa .

Or Jews adopt uniquely Christian phrases etc.
(if they do, well fair enough).

People use the dialect they are brought up in, however this changes depending upon the social context. I will use different language in professional situations than I will with my friends. Certain words, phrases and ritualistic uses of language are native to different situations.

tech77 wrote: »

But why do atheists adopt religious terms in their language (I concede the phrases are stripped as much as possible of original meaning but still..).

Read the above.

tech77 wrote: »

I hate this excuse of culture TBH.
Culture is nothing more than a reflection of attitudes/behaviours etc expressed through appropriate language.

Culture is much much more than this and you should read up on the subject of communication before making statements like that.

tech77 wrote: »

Why not have an ATHEISTIC CULTURE then with its own alternative phrases instead of borrowing them from a religious one.

Athiest's have a culture and a lexicon of terms to go with that, however people are social animals and hence interact with people of many other cultures and creeds. Also, just because you dont beleive in god does not mean you have to divorce yourself completely from every other linguistic culture just because it may be religious when taken in a different context. When I use "jesus christ" as an explative around my mates I'm not talking about the biblical JC, I'm saying "I'm suprised!"

tech77 wrote: »

I wonder does Richard Dawkins pepper his speech with many OMGs.

Who gives a damn, form your own opinions.

Dave!

tech77 wrote: »

Well yeah I know it sounds funny but i'm guessing there are degrees of atheistic devoutedness (devotion sounds a bit misplaced) which i'm guessing are characterised by use of language among other things.

Better atheist = atheist more assured in their confirmation of the non-existence of God = Someone who would have greater difficulty incorporating religious terms into speech (especially if they used language judiciously which i'm sure a lot of atheists would and in the case of phrases which carry a lot of sentiment).

No. Just no. Stop reading so much into this. There are CULTURAL and societal reasons why those kinds of phrases are prevalent in Irish society, and why people pick them up when they're young. It has nothing to do with how religious someone is. I'm sure some atheists make the effort not to say them, but the vast majority don't give a sh*t about it, because they don't believe it is of any importance whatsoever that they say "bless you" when someone sneezes.

rainbow kirby

Force of habit more than anything else.

Jack Sheehan

For f***s sake has kind of replaced for gods sake for me. Which is a little crude admittedly but at least I'm not saying 'Science damn you!

TheThing!

I think the world would be a far less annoying place if saying the phrase Oh my God was punishable by death. When something shocking happens its as if peoples brains shut down and the only words that can come out of their mouths is Oh my God. Not to mention all these brain dead D4 girls who probably say those three words more than any others. I want murder when I hear those words. Oh, and I am an atheist and I dont say any religious stuff just because it sounds stupid

tech77

Hellm0 wrote: »

People use the dialect they are brought up in, however this changes depending upon the social context. I will use different language in professional situations than I will with my friends. Certain words, phrases and ritualistic uses of language are native to different situations.


Read the above.


Culture is much much more than this and you should read up on the subject of communication before making statements like that.



Athiest's have a culture and a lexicon of terms to go with that, however people are social animals and hence interact with people of many other cultures and creeds. Also, just because you dont beleive in god does not mean you have to divorce yourself completely from every other linguistic culture just because it may be religious when taken in a different context. When I use "jesus christ" as an explative around my mates I'm not talking about the biblical JC, I'm saying "I'm suprised!"



Who gives a damn, form your own opinions.

Adopting a certain type of language for social and professional scenarios wouldn't be a major compromise of ones beliefs TBH.
Not really the same thing.

However adopting religious phraseology (albeit I accept in an idiomatic way) by an atheist/non-religious person is a bit different.

I'd assume Belief/Non-belief is very important to Believers/
Non-believers respectively.

So you'd think it might be a big ask to get a non-religious/atheistic group to conform linguistically when it comes to exprsssions with religious terms in them (however idiomatic).

Certainly more than say conforming linguistically in a social or professional context.

I concede i'm probably more cautious/exacting than most when it comes to use of language but still such phrases do carry some connotation.

And the Richard Dawkins thing was vaguely rhetorical TBH.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Zaph

I'll say stuff like "god only knows" even though I'm an atheist, but it's really just force of habit, I'm not referring to any god as such and whether he/she/it may actually be the only one that knows. God is a nice short word so it rolls off the tongue a lot easier than "Mickey Mouse only knows", for example.

Overheal

Its force of habit - television; parents; school; daily life... such examples are everywhere. godammit.

Dalfiatach

tech77 wrote: »

I'd assume Belief/Non-belief is very important to Believers/
Non-believers respectively.

And that's where you are going wrong.

Believers care, often to ridiculous degrees, about whether other people believe or not and just how strong their belief/unbelief is.

Non-believers just don't give a sh1t about any of it. Believe what you like, I really don't care - as long as you don't try and inflict it on me, and try to impose your religious views on the way I go about my daily life.

You do get a tiny, tiny minority of rabid loons that call themselves atheists. IMO, they aren't really Atheist, they are Anti-religion (and often, anti a particular religion). Your average atheist doesn't give a damn about any of it and really doesn't give it much thought, since belief in supernatural deities of any kind is simply silly.

Kipperhell

Tech77

Get over it! Your personal belief in a non cultural dialect where only a person with particular beliefs can speak a certain way doesn't exist and won't. You don't want accept it is a cultural thing doesn't make it so. Your belief only Christians should use Christian terms and atheists should find there own is ridiculous. Christians use non Christian terminology all the time such as the days of the week and months. Hell they stole the corner stone of the religion from the Jews.
There isn't a copyright on language or belief

Ninja_scrotum

It's funny the way Richard Dawkins mentions years "Before Christ".

For example...

"You are all deluded by religion. There is no such thing as God blah blah.... we all came from Africa in 100,000B.C."

I was watching one of his debates where he nearly said "Thank God", but stuttered after thank and ended up saying "Thank Goodness".

Dave!

It's certainly funny(sorta), but in no way significant.

Ninja_scrotum

DaveMcG wrote: »

It's certainly funny(sorta), but in no way significant.

Did I say it was significant? No. I said it was funny(sorta).

Your post was in no way significant.

Dave!

That's true, but your face is in no way significant, so..........
yore ma is also in no way significant... doesn't mean I don't roide her though

Conor108

I do but mainly from habit and whatnot

leninbenjamin

i've actually noticed something. the atheists use lowercase g, while the christians capitalize it.

Zaph

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i've actually noticed something. the atheists use lowercase g, while the christians capitalize it.

Well in my case it's because I'm not referring to God in a Christian sense, but more the notion of any sort of god.

Ninja_scrotum

Ninja_scrotum wrote: »

It's funny the way Richard Dawkins mentions years "Before Christ".

For example...

"You are all deluded by religion. There is no such thing as God blah blah.... we all came from Africa in 100,000B.C."

.

It's kinda difficult to refer to dates in the distant past without using a calendar based on a Christian event just over 2000 years ago.

There other calendars, but most people won't be able to relate to them.

FruitLover

Ninja_scrotum wrote: »

It's funny the way Richard Dawkins mentions years "Before Christ".

As Christ was not a god, I don't see the problem in an atheist believing he once roamed the earth.

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Better atheist? Lol!:p It's not like atheism is a movement or something-it's just a term used to describe someone who is lacking the religious memoplex.;)

Well, that would be more of an agnostic. I think of 'atheist' as meaning a specific, active belief that there is no god, rather than a mere lack of belief in god(s).

TheThing! wrote: »

I think the world would be a far less annoying place if saying the phrase Oh my God was punishable by death. When something shocking happens its as if peoples brains shut down and the only words that can come out of their mouths is Oh my God.

Ha, I hate that phrase as well. I don't use it at all - not because I'm an atheist, but because it's such a gormless, dopey expression used by mouth-breathers who haven't anything more intelligent to say.

Ickle Magoo

tech77 wrote: »

Just curious:
Do atheists use phrases like:
God only knows, Thank God, God love you (i'm guessing not that one)
Oh my God/OMG!!, Heaven-sent, Heaven's above etc etc.

Wouldn't a committed atheist have banished these from their lexicon altogether.

BTW i didn't put this in the Atheism forum because it's more a trivial musing than anything else.

I'm an atheist, I don't use any of them - why would I?

tech77

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm an atheist, I don't use any of them - why would I?

Kipperhell might think "why WOULDN'T you?"
Interesting that atleast some atheists have no recourse to such phrases.

Anyway the names of the week are a curious vestige alright.
From what I gather there was some resistance among christians to the pagan names at first but they stuck for some reason- the prevailing "culture" again? or maybe christians then were just dumb, i dunno.

Also simple names of the week would arguably carry less sentiment than e.g phrases that constitute benevolent greetings etc e.g "God bless" .

And just regarding phrases, just by their malleable nature they would also be more amenable to change than names of the week.

Anyway i suppose it's only CERTAIN phrases rather than ALL religious references etc that puzzle me when used by atheists.

Why for example might an atheist say "God only knows" or "Heaven knows":
No matter what way you cut it, habit or not, if an atheist used that phrase, apart from them meaning "dunno", they are also connoting that God or Heaven is omniscient in a way, something surely at odds with their thinking, no?

I suppose atheists do cut out the more sentiment-filled phrases such as "God bless you", "God help us" etc from their vocab so there is something in it.

Still even something as commonly used as "oh my God" still sounds "unatheistic" to my ears- and i'm not religious.
It atleast has a spiritual connotation.

l3LoWnA

tech77 wrote: »

Just curious:
Do atheists use phrases like:
God only knows, Thank God, God love you (i'm guessing not that one)
Oh my God/OMG!!, Heaven-sent, Heaven's above etc etc.

Wouldn't a committed atheist have banished these from their lexicon altogether.

BTW i didn't put this in the Atheism forum because it's more a trivial musing than anything else.

I use all those phrases. Force of habit! I don't believe in religion, but I do believe in some sort of a god or force somewhere (maybe?!?)

I'd also say "bless you" to someone if they sneeze. I kinda find it amusing!! :rolleyes: Most people around me are practising catholics - they believe in all that stuff! Holy Mary Mother of God!

Dave!

tech77 wrote: »

Kipperhell might think "why WOULDN'T you?"
Interesting that atleast some atheists have no recourse to such phrases.

Anyway the names of the week are a curious vestige alright.
From what I gather there was some resistance among christians to the pagan names at first but they stuck for some reason- the prevailing "culture" again? or maybe christians then were just dumb, i dunno.

Also simple names of the week would arguably carry less sentiment than e.g phrases that constitute benevolent greetings etc e.g "God bless" .

And just regarding phrases, just by their malleable nature they would also be more amenable to change than names of the week.

Anyway i suppose it's only CERTAIN phrases rather than ALL religious references etc that puzzle me when used by atheists.

Why for example might an atheist say "God only knows" or "Heaven knows":
No matter what way you cut it, habit or not, if an atheist used that phrase, apart from them meaning "dunno", they are also connoting that God or Heaven is omniscient in a way, something surely at odds with their thinking, no?

I suppose atheists do cut out the more sentiment-filled phrases such as "God bless you", "God help us" etc from their vocab so there is something in it.

Still even something as commonly used as "oh my God" still sounds "unatheistic" to my ears- and i'm not religious.
It atleast has a spiritual connotation.

Do you think that it makes someone LESS of an atheist because they use expressions like those? You think that if Christopher Hitchens said "...and if the Democrats get into power, then god help us all!" that he's in some way (subconsciously?) doubting his beliefs?

Some people are actively ANTI-theists, and want to see the eradication of religious belief, and perhaps they would make a special effort not to use the terms you mentioned, so that their prevalence in our parlance diminishes, but id say that most atheists don't necessarily care if religion exists or not, they just don't personally believe in it.

BTW, to whoever mentioned capitalisation -- I have no consistency in my capitalisation, so I wouldn't read too much into that... sometimes it's God, sometimes god...