Does anyone else feel that Mary Harney should resign immediately?

Akrasia

ateam wrote: »

In answer to the thread headline..NO, Mary Harney should not resign. We don't need resignation calls from ineffective opposition. I feel the media has a part to play in hyping up her position.

The newstalk morning programme has completely biased presenters. They seem to think Ms Harney should and can solve everything with a magic wand. Will not be listening to their inherent bias anymore.

I listened to this story on 3 different radio stations, one of which was anti hearney, the other two were anti resignation, but in all 3 cases, the overwhelming majority of texts and phone calls were calling from changes at the top. That's Drum, Hearney and other senior HSE officials, not just for this (appalling) series of events, but for the overall performance (or lack thereof) of the health service/system despite the huge resources pumped into it.

moe_sizlak

machiavellianme wrote: »

If anyone should be removed, it should be Brian Cowen. Supposed representative for Laois/Offaly, former Minister for Health and current Tanaiste. He has done nothing for Laois. Ever! But he did manage to make sure every penny spent on Health in the constituency went to his beloved Tullamore. These problems arising are not from poor staff or services, they are from sub standard equipment, so old that they dont even use them to train on anymore. Is it any surprise this is what happens? I fully expect more people to be added to the growing list of having possible problems in the near future.
Harney is doing ok. Someone needs to reform the system and she seems to have the nerve to go through with it.

he sounds like the consumate irish politician to me , the man knows how incredibly parochial we irish are , you cant argue with 19000 votes regardless of how useless he was in laois , oh and the house price crisis right now , i believe its in many ways cowans fault , he refused to budge on stamp duty at last yrs budget just to spite the PD,s , mc dowell having called for the abolition of stamp duty 3 mths previous , hopefully he will be punished for his pettiness by never becoming taoiseach

Akrasia

moe_sizlak wrote: »

hardly surprising , the media in ireland for the most part hates the PD,s

I don't think that's true. Moore McDowell is a regular on all broadcast networks, Sam Smyth has his own prime time show on Sundays dedicated to the PDs, Constantine Gourdiev is as PD as they come, and he's everywhere in the broadcast media.

As regards the print media, the Irish times is edited by an ex pd and the independent group will do whatever makes Tony O Reilly more money.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

I listened to this story on 3 different radio stations, one of which was anti hearney, the other two were anti resignation, but in all 3 cases, the overwhelming majority of texts and phone calls were calling from changes at the top. That's Drum, Hearney and other senior HSE officials, not just for this (appalling) series of events, but for the overall performance (or lack thereof) of the health service/system despite the huge resources pumped into it.

I listened to the texts coming in to the last word the other evening,the majority of which were saying scrap the tribunals,€1billion and rising.
I don't think we should govern by text message.
I think we should be governed and then decide on the government every 4 or 5 years.
A poster made a point a few posts back that I genuinely agree with and that was to put it more succinctly , if someone else particularally an FF minister was in charge of this,the hatches would be battoned down and if all else failed,the Dail would vote for an early Xmas recess.

Akrasia

Akrasia wrote: »

I don't think that's true. Moore McDowell is a regular on all broadcast networks,

Moore McDowell is not a pd,he's FG and is on record as not sharing his brothers politics.

Sam Smyth has his own prime time show on Sundays dedicated to the PDs,

I dunno now,I know Smyth is a friend of the former Tánaiste but he has his bro moore on frequently.

As regards the print media, the Irish times is edited by an ex pd

The ex pd that chased the anti Ahern leaks..?

and the independent group will do whatever makes Tony O Reilly more money.

Perhaps-mind you they've been fairly mixed at times in terms of who has been getting the favourable press.
I don't think theres a cast iron case for media bias.

oscarBravo

Lil Kitten wrote: »

WTF does she know about the health service or health in general (fat fcuk)??

...

End rant.

That's not maybe. Banned for a month.

Mr.Micro

Mary Harney is not responsible for clinical diagnosis or mis diagnosis of cancer in the health service ,which is the forte of doctors ,radiologists ,ultrasound people and all related technicial staff .Why do many of the posters not blame these people equally .I am not a great fan of Ms.Harney but she has to be given time to reform the dinosaur of a health system , that is the old health board into something close to efficient and accurate .Just because it is now the HSE has not meant that it is better ,as the old baggage is still there ,money wastage ,too many badly trained or incompetent staff ,and whole committees taking fees for what ,its just a gravy train for many, a big pie etc .Much of this was borne out by the HSE running out of money by September of this year I wonder how many other areas of the HSE are are bad as the cancer diagnosis system ? I dread to think.

Boggle

oh and the house price crisis right now , i believe its in many ways cowans fault

Off topic, but what do you consider to be the house price crisis; the fact that house prices were much too high for teh general public to afford a decent home, or the fact that they are now starting to correct? All Cowen did was to promote the party line on national tv (Claim that there was no crisis when everyone knew there was...)
As far as Miss Harney is concerned, she should go. Not because of this rubbish though - she sould have resigned for not summarily dismissing anyone who would announce such an issue publicly before informing her! That and the general stategy she has appears to be going nowhere... (bring in a canadian idealist into a completely alien culture (public//private etc)

That being said, the main reason she should go is because the person in charge of what is arguably the most urgent position should be a representative of the government. The way things are is too comfortable for the present government and allows them to distance themselves far too easily - ie they really dont have to worry about it too much as their party will not be tarnished!

While we are at it; Ahearne should also be forced out due to his cowardice in dodging the job and the HSE should be dissolved and restarted from scratch as it is clear that they are suffering from the typical public service condition of being too comfortable in their seats. (I'm not demanding at all am I?:o)

ateam

Akrasia wrote: »

I listened to this story on 3 different radio stations, one of which was anti hearney, the other two were anti resignation, but in all 3 cases, the overwhelming majority of texts and phone calls were calling from changes at the top. That's Drum, Hearney and other senior HSE officials, not just for this (appalling) series of events, but for the overall performance (or lack thereof) of the health service/system despite the huge resources pumped into it.

You naive person, the presenter can read out the texts which suits his or her bias.

Mr.Micro

The thing is that the Health issue was an item before the election and Ahern did duck the issue like a lot of other problems.They were still re elected .its the economy people were worried about .So they voted FF .Now both the Economy and health have both gone south .So its get on with it for 5 years unless the Greens and money grabbing Independents grow a conscience and do not support the current administration.

Akrasia

why would a presenter support mary hearney with his/her own comments, and then choose to select anti hearney comments to read out on air?

oscarBravo

ateam wrote: »

You naive person, the presenter can read out the texts which suits his or her bias.

Don't get personal, ta.

moe_sizlak

just a comment in relation to how people voted on the economy at the last election and not on the health service
while the health service is a in a terrible state and is of course a hugely important issue , it does get way too much media coverage , the majority of people in this country are not affected by it , you would think from liveline and rte in general that people were on the streets akin to the protests in burma some months back

ateam

Akrasia wrote: »

why would a presenter support mary hearney with his/her own comments, and then choose to select anti hearney comments to read out on air?

I'm just saying that it isn't uncommon for presenters/journalists to take a biased point of view. I can sort of understand it in papers, but not on radio programmes. I felt Claire Byrne in particular was biased in relation to several matters this week. Plus she's a rude interviewer.

moe_sizlak

ateam wrote: »

I'm just saying that it isn't uncommon for presenters/journalists to take a biased point of view. I can sort of understand it in papers, but not on radio programmes. I felt Claire Byrne in particular was biased in relation to several matters this week. Plus she's a rude interviewer.

are you serious , claire byrne became briefly interesting enough to be rude to someone , ive always thought of that bland country cailin as a broadcaster who missed her calling in life as a primary school teacher who married the local garda called liam

Akrasia

moe_sizlak wrote: »

just a comment in relation to how people voted on the economy at the last election and not on the health service
while the health service is a in a terrible state and is of course a hugely important issue , it does get way too much media coverage , the majority of people in this country are not affected by it , you would think from liveline and rte in general that people were on the streets akin to the protests in burma some months back

Everybody is affected by the health service. People might not get sick every year, but eventually everybody does, and we don't just worry about our own health, we have families and friends who are directly affected on a daily basis.

And people have been out on the streets, by tens of thousands. I marched in support of Ennis hospital a couple of months ago, and since then, there have been other protests in other towns around the country.

gandalf

Anyone got any comments on the new relevations on the cancer crisis?

.....A MASSIVE new cancer crisis erupted last night after it emerged that hundreds more patients from two hospitals are to have their tests reviewed.

The alarming revelation will heap more pressure on Health Minister Mary Harney as she prepares to face a motion of no-confidence in the Dail on Wednesday. There were fears that up to 15 patients in one of the hospitals could have been misdiagnosed and falsely given the all-clear for cancer.

Two separate inquiries are being conducted in Cork University Hospital (CUH) and University College Hospital Galway after concerns arose about the work of a pathologist who has since left the country......

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/agony-for-more-patients-in-fresh-blunder-1230419.html

Its obvious at this stage that no one is really in control or managing this service properly, yet they still give themselves huge bonuses for doing a slipshod job that is costing people pain, anguish in the worst cases their lives!

People should be fired from the top downwards. How Harney can think she is doing a good job is beyond me. There is no option with the complete and utter shambles that is unravelling before us she has to go.

Yes I heard that this morning.
That pathologist worked for 7 weeks and managed to do all that damage.

People should be fired from the top downwards.

I don't know what you'd do with a situation where a pathologist working for only 7 weeks does that much bad work.
Again and being frank,I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in firing a minister on account of that.
Even the officials or doctors that hired that pathologist wouldn't be able to determine in 7 weeks that he/she was doing wrong given the time period is way too short for to see cancer symptoms suddenly develop or for people to realise that an all clear was not the correct blood anaylsis.

How Harney can think she is doing a good job is beyond me.

I don't think it's a question of that,It's a question of how she copes with these problems as they arise.
As was said this morning on morning Ireland she's not at the peoples bedsides taking their temperature.

People should be fired from the top downwards.

Yes and I'd start at the top of the hiring chain if it can be proven that the interview boards were not thorough in their examination of doctors and in this case pathologists CV's.

How people can even believe that a government minister is responsible for the day to day diagnosis in a hospital is beyond me.
What you should in my opinion judge them on is how they deal with a crisis such as this one.You don't go fire them and have the rest of the HSE and those close to the misdiagnosis go hurrah.
They'd only be laughing at that and it's the patients that would continue to suffer from what I can see.

John_C

gandalf wrote: »

Anyone got any comments on the new relevations on the cancer crisis?

If you don't mind me quoting from that link:

He resigned from his job on July 2 at the request of management in Cork. He had previously worked in the Galway laboratory.

...

the review, which got under way in September, has led to a number of patients being recalled for further screening to find out if their disease was missed.

This strikes me as a case of good management. A problem was spotted by internal checks in July and by September they began double checking the person's work. That's a big improvement on what happened in Portlaoise were the problem was allowed to fester for years.

Agreed JohnC
Thanks for pointing that out.
I am busy here and hadn't time to read the full article-just what Gandalf posted of it.

Mr.Micro

John_C wrote: »

If you don't mind me quoting from that link:



This strikes me as a case of good management. A problem was spotted by internal checks in July and by September they began double checking the person's work. That's a big improvement on what happened in Portlaoise were the problem was allowed to fester for years.

How do these people get the job in the first place though? If competent qualified
people were appointed then some of to days problems might have been avoided.The standards need to be tightened .Too many chancers .

John_C

I don't know if you're asking me or just making a point but I certainly don't know. I would guess that the answer probably lies in the difference between competent and qualified.

Akrasia

Ned O Keefe (FF TD) has just called for Harney's resignation on Newstalk. This is two days before a motion of no confidence is set to go before the dail

Mr.Micro

Akrasia wrote: »

Ned O Keefe (FF TD) has just called for Harney's resignation on Newstalk. This is two days before a motion of no confidence is set to go before the dail

O Keefe is seen as a maverick .I dont think Bertie is too endeared to him or vice versa.Anything for a headline. MH will survive the drop.

John_C

Akrasia wrote: »

Ned O Keefe (FF TD) has just called for Harney's resignation on Newstalk. This is two days before a motion of no confidence is set to go before the dail

If I were Bertie I'd offer the job to this fella, let him put his competence where his mouth is.

I can't really think of anyone more capable than her to run the health service.

Akrasia

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't really think of anyone more capable than her to run the health service.

Based on what? Her track record so far?

Her husbands ties to the for profit healthcare sector and her own ideological love affair with privatisation?

We live in a country that supposedly has free universal healthcare, yet 53% of us feel compelled to buy expensive health insurance (that's set to increase by up to 18% next year)

CerebralCortex

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't really think of anyone more capable than her to run the health service.

A sad but good point

Mr.Micro

John_C wrote: »

If I were Bertie I'd offer the job to this fella, let him put his competence where his mouth is.

Unfortunately he is not competent ,thats why Bertie gave him the push in the past.Now he is out to stir it .He failed to support Ahern in the last vote of no confidence .

Hagar

Should the vote of confidence be a democratic secret ballot or should the whole country just do what what one man, Bertie, says?