Do your dogs fight often?

Alfasudcrazy

My two Dobies normally live with each other in peaceful bliss but now and again all hell breaks loose and I have to rush in to separate them. :eek:

I don't mean play fighting either - this is total war type situations. My collie goes scurrying for cover when it happens as it did today.

It starts just like a brawl outside a nightclub - all seems dandy and then its snarls and two dobies rolling around on the ground. What frightened me a bit about today's fight was that for the first time they did not stop for me for a while despite my best efforts.:eek:

I am just afraid they could start when I am out. The female dobie is to blame for most of it. She is such a highly strung dog compared to the easy going and placid male. :rolleyes:

It is sweet to see them make up to each other after though and usually they are best friends again a half an hour later.

peasant

Ours don't fight often or very hard ..usually just little spats between the two girls, but once or twice it got serious (and they both carried "a grudge" for several days after)

So, the fact that yours make up afterwards is good ...that you couldn't interrupt them ...not so good.

I certainly wouldn't dare to physically separate two fighting Dobermans ... I might come out the loser.

I'd suggest you do some good, solitary disciplinary lessons over the next few weeks with each of them, before they get out of hand.

macshadow

What is it with females one time i tried to stop my two fighting collie shepherdX and a red setter. I approached the collie from behind (big mistake) and she lashed out at my hand reflex action style and cut me to the bone. I would advise you to keep a stick handy to put between them instead of an arm or leg.
It's always my collie i pet or feed first and there is never a problem now and she is only half the size of my red setter.

arybvtcw0eolkf

peasant wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't dare to physically separate two fighting Dobermans ... I might come out the loser.

Good advice. My father stepped in between two GSD's and was lucky to escape with his life.

This is also a consideration for me at the moment as I'm thinking of getting another Staffie or pitbull and don't fancy either me or my wife going in after a couple of those start fighting.

Gillie

My GSD annoys my Mutt but its only being playful.

They've never fallen out really!

Dyr

meh..we've an akita and a shiba so fights arent really a good idea with that size differential, the little fella is constantly picking on the big guy because he's the newbie, Im always worried the big guy will loose it one day, you can see he's not too impressed at times. i just keep and eye on them and if it looks like it might get nasty I step in and nip them in the bud.

peasant

Other than having general good discipline with all dogs, the "trick" is to be vigilant. Watch your dogs, and at any sign of aggression let them know that you do not tolerate fighting or bullying.

There usually are signs that a fight might be on the cards ...a bit of pushing, aggressive stances, staring, growling etc.

In our house it's usually the little terrier that gets notions, but stepping in before the dogs get at each other is slowly getting the message across that ours is a peaceful house.

Luckily for us, the terrier is easy enough to just literally "chuck out" if she gets too pesky and doesn't heed our warnings.

myjugsarehuge

Our English Springer spaniel and Jack Russell X (both bitches) have their moments, usually over food so I feed them in seperate parts of the kitchen now and always feed the big dog first, making them sit so they know I'm the boss and I decide who gets what food not them.

I tried to seperate them once with my foot, didn't want to risk a hand, and the springer bit through my leather boot didn't half hurt Won't bother again, spats only lasts a minute and it sounds worse than it is usually.

iguana

I'm pretty lucky with my two, so far there hasn't been much beyond minor squabbles. They even sample each other's food peacefully. Long may it last.

Bettyboop

I have 3 shih-tzus and a lhaso apso and the lhaso always fights with the smallest shih-tzu.They are all rescue dogs but I have them years now.When they fight they are like pitbulls the lhaso gets the shih-tzu by the neck and another one grabs the back of him,you might think it is easy to seperate small dogs,but beleive me its not,on one occasion I tried to separate them only for the lhaso to get a grip of my hand and he wouldn't let go,he was swinging from it.I got them all neutered but despite this they still fight,not as much now as they are getting on in years,but I tried everything buckets of water,banged pot lids to no effect.It all starts over nothing, yet the small dog will guard his food and snarl at the lhaso who gets terrified and walks awaybut he wont stand up for himself when he is been attacked.He runs to the top of the stairs and wont come down.

Bettyboop

peasant wrote: »

Other than having general good discipline with all dogs, the "trick" is to be vigilant. Watch your dogs, and at any sign of aggression let them know that you do not tolerate fighting or bullying.

There usually are signs that a fight might be on the cards ...a bit of pushing, aggressive stances, staring, growling etc.

In our house it's usually the little terrier that gets notions, but stepping in before the dogs get at each other is slowly getting the message across that ours is a peaceful house.

Luckily for us, the terrier is easy enough to just literally "chuck out" if she gets too pesky and doesn't heed our warnings.

As soon as I hear them growling I let a roar,but they start fighting then its like as if I am telling them to fight
And when I stay quiet they growl and make all the macho moves until the small dog walks away then the other dog goes after him and all hell breaks loose.I usually have to stay as still as I can when the growling starts because if I make any sort of a move it gets them more aggressive for some reason.

peasant

Bettyboop wrote: »

As soon as I hear them growling I let a roar,but they start fighting then its like as if I am telling them to fight
And when I stay quiet they growl and make all the macho moves until the small dog walks away then the other dog goes after him and all hell breaks loose.I usually have to stay as still as I can when the growling starts because if I make any sort of a move it gets them more aggressive for some reason.

Have you tried to literally "step in" ?

Position yourself (or at least a leg or a hand ) between them (at this stage they would still be a distance apart) let out a growl yourself (Nooo! / Stop it!) and then just separate them (send them to different places / send one of them outside / to bed / wherever)

Another way to separate them is to just push them (not kick or hit ...push!) apart. This works slightly better with bigger dogs, though, as you can really "wade in" in and just diffuse the aggression.

You have to do this in an authoritative, self assured, no questions asked kind of way ..quick and determined ..in like a flash and then its over, no longwinded lectures afterwards.

(like another dog would do it)

Bettyboop

Thanks for the reply,I have stepped in on many occasions but it seems to make them a lot worse.I have pushed them (more like a nudge) but again it seems to aggravate them even more.When the fight ends the smallest one keeps circling the aggressive one for about 10 mins.This little dog lost his sight in one eye due to a fight and when a fight is over even when he may have come out the worst he wants to go back for more.I have had 3 of them at the vets on numerous occasions to get stitched up and get anti biotics and the vets solution was to put one to sleep.I would never dream of doing that as I love them too much:)
I have been to a behaviorist and followed her instructions,she said I had to pay more attention to the most dominant dog and ignore the other one, feed them separately which I always did and separate them into different rooms after a fight.Now the result is the more dominant dogs sits on my lap and if any of the other dogs come near me he growls at them.I ignore the bully of the pack after the row and wont let him near me,it does seem to have an affect:The total opposite of what the behaviorist said.And when he growls at the others when he is on my lap I get up and leave him.What I cant make out is why they sleep huddled up together and lick each others faceslike they are best buddies.

Dyr

Face licking is usually a sign of submission between dogs. Though our big one does something a bit weird to the little fella. if the little fella is getting attention and the big fella is frustated about it, then he starts grooming the little fella furiously, like nibbling on his coat as though hes trying to get matted hair off him. The little man doesnt seem to mind oddly enough.

peasant

Bettyboop

It is difficult to advise you, without having seen the situation. Also, what you're reporting is seen from your perspective ...the dogs might have a different slant on the situation.

While in principle the theory of supporting (or at least not undermining) the dog with the most status (note: I didn't say dominant!) in the group is correct, in practice it is difficult to determine which dog that is exactly.

Dogs do job sharing (not every dog has to be best at everything, even a "top dog" will leave the lead on certain tasks happily to an underling), dogs have mood swings too (what was ok yesterday might not be today) and most importantly, you yourself (as an emotional human) behave differently every day.

The main aim of every dog is to get the most of everything: food , cuddles, toys,attention, attention, attention ...especially your attention.

Now, assuming that your dogs actually do have a "pecking order", by trying to enforce the most "dominant" dog, you might actually have picked the wrong one. "Dominant" is a misleading word, often misunderstood or used wrongly. In a normal household group of dogs (not a wolf pack or pack of wild dogs) the "top dog" (if there even is one) is usually not the loudest, most agressive or most forward dog, but one of the quiter ones that ignores most of the goings on and only steps in when boundaries get crossed ...even then the "stepping in" is usually a quiet affair, done with a glance, a stance or a short bark.

My advice would be:
Over the next few weeks and months, forget about giving preferential treatment to any dog and re-establish yourself as a "just ruler" of ALL your dogs.
Feed them in separate rooms at the same time (that's the first and main reason for squabbles out of the way)
Only give them attention (cuddles , pets) when you want to and when you explicitely invited them to come and get cuddled/petted. Any dog that comes up to you and demands attention, gets ignored.

Set up a simple few unbreakable rules (mostly for yourself rather than the dogs) and stick to them. Very simple rules that are easy to remember and easy to enforce. Make your dogs "work" for what they want. For example: Every dog has to do a "sit" before it's given its food, a toy, a treat.
Every dog has to do a "sit" before any door is openend for it / the lead is put on, etc.
Establish one or two absolute taboos, for example: No dog is allowed on the sofa/in the kitchen/ in the bathroom (whatever suits) or chase the cat.

Once these things work (and they should within a few days) and you've established yourself as "the boss", then you can go into the finer details of "There is going to be NO fighting in this house!". Because by then your dogs will hopefully pay attention to your "NO" and "Stop it" ...which they don't seem to be doing at the moment.

Bettyboop

Thanks for the advice Peasant will try all the suggestions you kindly offered
and hope a bit of peace will be restored to my household.Will let you know the outcome in a few days.:)

peasant

It's going to take a bit longer than a few days

By setting up new rules, you'll probably see a few "results" quite quickly ...but don't be fooled.

Dogs are masters in getting what they want and even better at finding little loopholes/inconsequences in the rules which they then quickly expand and use for themselves.

The most important thing is that you make up a set of rules that are easy to implement and to follow for your particular situation.

If your dogs for example get extremely hyper as soon as a walk is on the cards, then the "sit before putting on the lead"-rule will just be totally impractical. You'll never get the little buggers to sit still and within a day or two you will have broken / bent your own rule.

This is exactly what MUST NOT happen.

Dogs actually need and like a clear structure, but at the same time they will always try and stretch the rules to their advantage.
So it is imperative that you keep the rules very simple and easy to implement/obey and then follow them to the letter ...always ...every time ...without fail.

As your mob seems to be a bit unruly at the moment, start with something really simple ("sit" for food is a classic).
Only when they have a few simple rules down to a tee and show a general capability and willingness for obedience is when you can introduce more complicated and demanding ones.

Bettyboop

Flossy a pitbull in a fur coat:DAnd Simba who comes out the worst.:)
Looks can be deceiving:D
Will let you know how it all goes.
Thanks again.

Alfasudcrazy

Another big fight between the two dobies last night - really frightened me. It only lasted about 15 seconds but again they paid no attention to my efforts to stop it.

Even more worryingly this time it was started by my always friendly male dobie. Can't decide what caused it. Either jealousy for my attention (the female dobie is always intolerant of the other's getting more attention than herself and pushes the others away etc) or if it was because she was trying to steal a roll of sticky tape the male dobie was chewing on but had dropped after seeming to loose interest in.

As usual today its all back to normal but I am still a bit shaken by it.

peasant

Alfasudcrazy wrote: »

...(the female dobie is always intolerant of the other's getting more attention than herself and pushes the others away etc) ...

That is something I wouldn't tolerate.

I (and nobody else) decide who gets what from me and when. If I'm giving attention to one dog and another barges in or gets narky ..the bully gets told off, sent away or thrown out, depending on the severity of the bullying.

(Of course you have to show some sense when giving out affection and not deliberately cause a row by plucking the most desinterested dog out of its corner for a cuddle while the others are already queuing )

Susannahmia

I used to have three dogs, the two small ones RIP absolutely loathed each other and fought over toys, food etc. We actually had to have one of them rehomed as they were making each others lives miserable and the third dog was starting to join in on picking on one dog in particular. Once they were seperated their quality of life improved so much it was worth the sadness of giving one away. They could actually play instead of watching their backs the whole time and guarding their favourite spots and stuff all day.

If they started fighting the only thing that you could do to stop them was to scream really loudly! They would stop right away and run over to me all concerned because they thought they were after hurting me or something!

sillymoo

Bettyboop wrote: »

Flossy a pitbull in a fur coat:DAnd Simba who comes out the worst.:)
Looks can be deceiving:D
Will let you know how it all goes.
Thanks again.

I have noticed that Shih Tzu's are particularly bad for dominence issues and agression as we have one ourselves and she would try and attack any big dog within the range of her lead! Also she would be jealous of children demanding attention off us and we could not tolerate that. However after months of training and teaching, she understood her place in the pack and the aggression and jealousy died down. Now she is at the ripe old age of 12 and is as placid and laid back as anything :rolleyes: Patience and a firm line are essential. Shih Tzu's are extreemly clever and will soon learn right and wrong.

Bettyboop

sillymoo wrote: »

I have noticed that Shih Tzu's are particularly bad for dominence issues and agression as we have one ourselves and she would try and attack any big dog within the range of her lead! Also she would be jealous of children demanding attention off us and we could not tolerate that. However after months of training and teaching, she understood her place in the pack and the aggression and jealousy died down. Now she is at the ripe old age of 12 and is as placid and laid back as anything :rolleyes: Patience and a firm line are essential. Shih Tzu's are extreemly clever and will soon learn right and wrong.

None of our shih-tzus were aggressive towards children in fact they are very protective of them,because Simba passed away in November there are no issues with food or dominance anymore, the house is too quiet now and I have another shih-tzu Toby who is heading for doggy heaven soon too, at the ripe old age of 15. Thats the worst of having 4 dogs near the same age.They do have a very strong will and it does take a lot of patience to train them

Bettyboop

Susannahmia wrote: »

I used to have three dogs, the two small ones RIP absolutely loathed each other and fought over toys, food etc. We actually had to have one of them rehomed as they were making each others lives miserable and the third dog was starting to join in on picking on one dog in particular. Once they were seperated their quality of life improved so much it was worth the sadness of giving one away. They could actually play instead of watching their backs the whole time and guarding their favourite spots and stuff all day.

If they started fighting the only thing that you could do to stop them was to scream really loudly! They would stop right away and run over to me all concerned because they thought they were after hurting me or something!

Sounds exactly the same as what went on here:D I did consider rehoming the trouble maker who was the last shih-tzu I got from Paws animal sanctuary but he went through such a lot I hadn't the heart to rehome him.:)

Princess J

We've got a female two year old Bassett Hound and in October we got a 2 month old male Beagle pup. Freya took to him immediately and totally mothered him, which of course he loved. Recently though, as he's grown he's fighting a bit for domination of the pack. Squabbles usually only break out when they both have a bone or rawhide chew and it is Freya's fault - she goes over and takes Odin's treat but also keeps her own. When he tries to retrieve his she goes for him, but it is really only growling and snapping. He's a bit of a wuss so runs off yelping, even though she hasn't touched him! We know that this may happen so only give them treats when we're around and if we see her going over we give her a warning and she backs off.

lurchin along

[.

This is also a consideration for me at the moment as I'm thinking of getting another Staffie or pitbull and don't fancy either me or my wife going in after a couple of those start fighting.[/quote]

DON'T DO IT!
Bull breeds are NOT famous for living harmoniously together-not same sex ones anyway.And don't forget the breed characteristic of 'locking on'Chances are high you wouldn't be able to separate them at all.

As for the dobes fighting - unless there's injuries resulting from these brawls I wouldn't worry too much.Dobes are vocal and in the case of a bitch going for a dog my guess would be that it's more bark than bite.
Is the bitch neutered?
It could be that her oestrogen levels are too low-common in speyed bitches-and she is now of the opinion that she's a he.
The vet can sort you out with HRT therapy for her.
Yes I'm serious!

Puddleduck

Bettyboop wrote: »

Thanks for the reply,I have stepped in on many occasions but it seems to make them a lot worse.I have pushed them (more like a nudge) but again it seems to aggravate them even more.When the fight ends the smallest one keeps circling the aggressive one for about 10 mins.This little dog lost his sight in one eye due to a fight and when a fight is over even when he may have come out the worst he wants to go back for more.I have had 3 of them at the vets on numerous occasions to get stitched up and get anti biotics and the vets solution was to put one to sleep.I would never dream of doing that as I love them too much:)
I have been to a behaviorist and followed her instructions,she said I had to pay more attention to the most dominant dog and ignore the other one, feed them separately which I always did and separate them into different rooms after a fight.Now the result is the more dominant dogs sits on my lap and if any of the other dogs come near me he growls at them.I ignore the bully of the pack after the row and wont let him near me,it does seem to have an affect:The total opposite of what the behaviorist said.And when he growls at the others when he is on my lap I get up and leave him.What I cant make out is why they sleep huddled up together and lick each others faceslike they are best buddies.

Hi bettyboop,

Just a quick note, the more dominant dog sounds as though hes dominating you too, in his/her eyes you may be a member of his pack. You need to start asserting yourself as the dominant one in the house, the alpha, and you need to make it clear that everyone else in the house (people) are more dominant than the dogs. You should go by what a proffesional says but I wouldnt leave food down after he has walked away, never mollycoddle when you come back into the room, he comes to you on your terms. Im not sure how well seperation after a fight would help, as its unnatural behaviour. Id advice maybe more excersise, like swimming, and regular walks. Knacker them out and they may not have the energy to fight anymore.

peasant

Puddleduck wrote: »

Im not sure how well seperation after a fight would help, as its unnatural behaviour.

It's not unnatural at all.
Separation from the pack/group is perfectly normal dog behaviour. Even a mother looking after her young pups will throw a pup out of the box when it gets too rumbunctious ...or at least push it to the far end, away from her and the others.

The Artist

i dont know what causes the fight but i presume its territorial thing.I used to breed staffys for 2 years i find that females arent that bad as i built two separate kennels (half brick half wired) it took two weeks before i could put them together without a fight! So i think to males are likely to be more agressive.I had 3 or 4 occasions when they do fight ive always have water handy and just chuck water at the 2 fighting and when they do start again i have my water it works wonders for me as they stop now.