Delaying paying VRT until new year

nogoodnamesleft

Hi All,

I recently brought in a car from the UK about 2 weeks ago. However I would like to delay paying the VRT until Janurary 2008. Their is a catch though. I have the car insured with Hibernan and they want the irish registration cert before they renew my insurance in December. Any ideas about how I could manage this 1 as it could save me a bit of money on an illegal tax? Would another insurance company insure the car on the english plates even though I have been insured by hibernan for the last number of years.

Thanks.

Quinn will cover you indefinetly on uk plates they look on them the same as irish plates. Ive my car with them over 6months irish policy uk car and im living in the uk at the moment.

Matt Simis

XS Direct may does this for you over the phone too.

Skyuser

So not only are the goverment charging illegal tax but the insurance companies are refusing to insure a car because its not irish. Do you have more chance of crashing with UK plates?

what_car

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Hi All,

I recently brought in a car from the UK about 2 weeks ago. However I would like to delay paying the VRT until Janurary 2008. Their is a catch though. I have the car insured with Hibernan and they want the irish registration cert before they renew my insurance in December. Any ideas about how I could manage this 1 as it could save me a bit of money on an illegal tax? Would another insurance company insure the car on the english plates even though I have been insured by hibernan for the last number of years.

Thanks.

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

louie

The above statement is totally true. have seen it done.

Anan1

Skyuser wrote: »

So not only are the goverment charging illegal tax but the insurance companies are refusing to insure a car because its not irish. Do you have more chance of crashing with UK plates?

I would say yes, on a purely actuarial basis. People who have shown a willingness to break one law are more likely to break others. This is why they load for road traffic convictions.

Matt Simis

what_car wrote: »

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

Yes, its outrageous that someone might want to save EUR1k to EUR15k of a possibly illegal tax by delaying (not dodging it) paying it by a few weeks. We should all roll over and be told whats right and wrong and good for us. :eek:

Youre whats wrong with the voting public.

ambro25

what_car wrote:

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you)
<snip>
stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

How's the view from up there?

what_car wrote:

they can even take the car from your driveway...

No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

MercMad

.............and for some reason you think that warrants are hard to come by for the Revenue Commisioners ??

Besides the fact that I dont like tax dodgers the OP never said he was going to drive it until January. He may want to insure it in case of damage and keep it on his driveway.

I feel a lot of folk are unaware that it is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign reg'd car in Ireland, and I would expect and insurance Company to use that as an escape route in the event of an accident !

Esel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, its outrageous that someone might want to save EUR1k to EUR15k of a possibly illegal tax by delaying (not dodging it) paying it by a few weeks.

A few examples of how to save €15K by delaying a few weeks, please. Can't find any? Not surprised.

Re seizing car from private property:

ambro25 wrote: »

No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

Think you're wrong there!

delly

I really don't think there would be much saving in waiting for the new year. Surely they would go on a month by month basis?

alias no.9

It's up to you whether you want to take the risk. The potential consequences include the car being seized and having to pay a fine on top of the VRT, your insurance company refusing to pay out on anything other than a third party claim if you have a knock. They may ask you for proof of when you imported the car, but even if they don't, it's unlikely that there'll be a steped reduction in the VRO's valuation of your car between now and then.
People have this notion that cars magically fall in price straight after the new year, but they don't really. Second hand car sales are very busy early in the new year, this keeps prices up. Prices tend to fall later in the year when activity in the market slows down. Shopping around at this time of year and having a brass neck when dealing with salesmen can get you a better deal now than you'd get on the same car in january when they'll be busy with softer customers. The only car you're going to make a significant saving on is an expensive classic that was first registered in january 1978, which will change to a €50 flat rate of VRT, having become an official classic.

smash

what_car wrote: »

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

get off your soap box, everyone knows the law! He's asking a question about insurance and has admitted he's going to pay VRT in the new year.... stop whinging!

Matt Simis

esel wrote: »

A few examples of how to save €15K by delaying a few weeks, please. Can't find any? Not surprised.

Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

Its not that hard to guestimate.

Open up the VRT Calc.
Take any car, 2004 fill in the details. Note that the month seems to make no difference as the VRT system only tracks years (its not dynamically updated). Note the VRT amount due. Go back and change it to 2003, note the change. This (baring potential VRT process changes which really can happen anytime) is the amount that will drop on 1st Jan too (again, they track years on the VRT system). This is of course because the VRT duty is based on the presumed selling price, which is affected by the year of registration.

Simply put, buying a car now costs you more of this "tax" then it would for the same car, same year of initial registration than it would in January.

EUR15k was an arbitrary number, pick something expensive to replicate.

JHMEG

God I hate threads where a low to no-post poster asks a question and then fecks off, and.. leaves a whole pile of bickering in his/her wake!

If the OP is still reading (doubt it), if the V5 has been dated by the seller it won't matter when the VRT is paid... it'll be charged at the rate on the date of sale.

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

God I hate threads where a low to no-post poster asks a question and then fecks off, and.. leaves a whole pile of bickering in his/her wake!

If the OP is still reading (doubt it), if the V5 has been dated by the seller it won't matter when the VRT is paid... it'll be charged at the rate on the date of sale.

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

nogoodnamesleft

Yes JHMEG I am still reading!! And no the V5 wasnt to my knowledge dated ill have to check it when i get home. I was given to me directly as the DVLA cannot process it as I am not a UK resident. Im am going to pay the tax but im going to make it easier on my posket as possible. For those of ye cribbin about not paying VRT etc..etc. Go into the next halting site and spot how many nothern and Uk registered Transits are there and tell d boys there. C what input they would give ye

JohnCleary

Matt Simis wrote: »

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

Correct. Say I buy a car for export in the UK in Jan 2006, and store it in the UK until Jan 2007, then bring it in and go to VRT it, it doesn't make sense that i'd be paying VRT of Jan 2006 if it wasn't even in the country

Matt Simis

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Go into the next halting site and spot how many nothern and Uk registered Transits are there and tell d boys there. C what input they would give ye

Or see how eager Customs and Gardai are to go in there and attempt to take their vehicles. Much easier to bully soft targets into paying..

RobAMerc

I would pay it now - not because of the crap people above are giving you, but because the VRT will be going up in the budget and you'll end up paying more than you'll save by the car being one year older.

SIMI have adds on the radio stating its going up so I imagine theres some truth in the rumor.

ambro25

MercMad wrote:

.............and for some reason you think that warrants are hard to come by for the Revenue Commisioners ?

No, but then broad-brush point attracts broad-brush response, excuse me for not taking everything including the captains' age and today's barometric pressure into consideration before replying

esel wrote: »

Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

:Think you want to substantiate somewhat there!

Del2005

I would pay it now - not because of the crap people above are giving you, but because the VRT will be going up in the budget and you'll end up paying more than you'll save by the car being one year older.

SIMI have adds on the radio stating its going up so I imagine theres some truth in the rumor.

Yes they are going to still have similar bands for VRT, but they will load dirty cars and discount green cars. See link below, this is only a disscusion document but can't see them changing it much

http:]
//www.budget.gov.ie/2007/downloads/AnnexD.pdf

JHMEG

Matt Simis wrote: »

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

ambro25

JHMEG wrote: »

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

The VRO will have no choice but to "go with your story" if it is factually documented.

E.g. buy the car in January in the UK, put it on the ferry (for whatever reasons) in July = VRT from July, not January.

Ownership is distinct from importing, and from registration. All three have respective, different definitions (semantically and legally).

VRT is payable on registration, registration is mandatory for a resident to drive on public roads: don't drive on public road (e.g. store, or track use exclusively and carted about on trailer) or driven by non-resident = no need to register.

VRO says/acts different = actionable in Court.

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

How did you get a V5 to an Irish address? (I presume that's what you mean...)

OTH, if they just hand you the V5 when you collect the car, you're not on it at all, and the only dates refer to the person YOU'RE buying it from, and when THEY bought it from the previous owners.

JHMEG

galwaytt wrote: »

How did you get a V5 to an Irish address? (I presume that's what you mean...)

OTH, if they just hand you the V5 when you collect the car, you're not on it at all, and the only dates refer to the person YOU'RE buying it from, and when THEY bought it from the previous owners.

Seller filled in V5 and handed it to me. It's not a great idea for a seller *not* to put on the new owner's details and date.. ie seller has no protection then.

I had told him in advance that it was a waste of time sending it to the DVLA, as they'd just send it on to me, albeit 6 weeks later. So either way the V5 ends up at an Irish address, the only difference being whether or not it goes thru the DVLA or not.

@ambro25. If the story is backed up with documentary evidence, then yes. If you appear in the VRO 3 months after the sale date as the the V5 without any such evidence, then they don't have to believe you.

Owen

JHMEG wrote: »

Seller filled in V5 and handed it to me. It's not a great idea for a seller *not* to put on the new owner's details and date.. ie seller has no protection then

Than the seller made a big boo boo, didn't he? There's a perforated section of the V5 that the seller tears out and posts to the DVLA in Swansea, it's an export stub - it covers the seller's liability, the rest of the document does not need to be filled out. The VRO does that when returning the remainder of the V5 to Swansea.

Senna

in 2006 the vrt on my car dropped in August, luckily a few weeks before i bought it. so they may adjust vrt at any stage of the year.
Not long before that, the vrt on a UK mr2 went up, nearly €100 on a 1995.
so i would just pay it now, it could go up.

Gatster

Sorry JHMEG, but I don't think your suspicion is the norm. I registered both cars that I 'imported' at my UK address and drove them around In Ireland on UK plates for reasonably lengthy periods (>6 months) before going near the VRT office.
Walked in with the V5 (in my name) X amount of months later, paid the amount quoted on the web and walked out, the dates they came into my ownership never came into it.

You pay the VRT price as it is on the day you walk in, I really don't think they could be arsed to work out what the VRT could have been a 3/6/9/12 months ago while you are sat there.

Elara: Kin

Dont think the change in the VRT is coming in till the year after next.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1005/breaking63.htm