Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

religious families?

Options
  • 07-11-2007 1:17am
    #1
    still learning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭still learning


    just looking for some of your thoughts or experiences
    my girlfriend of years is currently broody due to one of our friends having a lovely little baby .The thing is any time we talk about it we end up arguing about christening the child - I want to let my kids decide for themselves what if any religion they choose and of course she wants to do the whole baptism thing
    anyone else any experience of this??


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    still learning wrote: »
    just looking for some of your thoughts or experiences
    my girlfriend of years is currently broody due to one of our friends having a lovely little baby .The thing is any time we talk about it we end up arguing about christening the child - I want to let my kids decide for themselves what if any religion they choose and of course she wants to do the whole baptism thing
    anyone else any experience of this??

    A few of my friends and family have been through this one. It's generally agreed that, if you're an atheist, you're really just talking about a splash of water and a family get-together. It's not like we're Satanists, after all. And the child is free to choose whatever religion they prefer when they're old enough - in the interim the more pressing issue will actually be whether he/she has to go to a religious school. If you want to get into one of the properly secular ones like Educate Together, I would suggest getting the child's name down at birth, or ideally before. Otherwise, you may in any case find that your local school's enrollment policy depends on baptism. 98% of the schools are Catholic-run, if there's a choice.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #3
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    A few of my friends and family have been through this one. It's generally agreed that, if you're an atheist, you're really just talking about a splash of water and a family get-together. It's not like we're Satanists, after all. And the child is free to choose whatever religion they prefer when they're old enough - in the interim the more pressing issue will actually be whether he/she has to go to a religious school. If you want to get into one of the properly secular ones like Educate Together, I would suggest getting the child's name down at birth, or ideally before. Otherwise, you may in any case find that your local school's enrollment policy depends on baptism. 98% of the schools are Catholic-run, if there's a choice.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Scofflaw ... will you lay off the satanists please? They don't believe in god after all ;)


  • Options
    #4
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    challenge her on her beliefs and don't accept 'its the done thing' as an answer


  • Options
    #5
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    How does she know the child will be catholic? :p
    lostexpectation wrote: »
    challenge her on her beliefs and don't accept 'its the done thing' as an answer
    Challenge her on her beliefs and then get any child baptised, because otherwise there will be no winners.

    It doesn't have to be a big family affair with you sulking in the corner. You just need a couple of godparents there. If she's serious about the religion thing then that shouldn't matter. And as scofflaw says - at least then you won't have completely restricted your choice of schools, too.


  • Options
    #6
    John Wine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭John Wine


    still learning wrote: »
    just looking for some of your thoughts or experiences
    my girlfriend of years is currently broody due to one of our friends having a lovely little baby .The thing is any time we talk about it we end up arguing about christening the child - I want to let my kids decide for themselves what if any religion they choose and of course she wants to do the whole baptism thing
    anyone else any experience of this??
    People rarely agree exactly on this stuff. It's usually one has an opinion and the other doesn't mind. If you clash on it, nothing wrong with that. You can work through it or compromise.

    Child comes first surely, so what's best for the child in both of your opinions?

    Thing about this way:
    1. Education - baptism can affect where you go to school. This is not the way it should be, but it's not going to change for at least another 10 years.

    2. Being like everyone else - kids may not like being the only one not making communion, or may they revel in it.

    Either way, I would imagine the child will make up their own mind when they hit teenage years if not before that.

    After there's loads more for couples to disagree on:
    1. Pocket money.
    2. Public or Private schools
    3. What sports they play
    4. Eat meat or be a Veggie
    5. How much TV they are allowed watch?
    7. How much Santa should bring?

    Enjoy :-)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    If and when I have kids, they better get into an educate together school!

    Just reading these posts reminds me of how absurd it is that people actually have to baptise their child in order to ensure they get into a school, and in order to fit in they have to make their communion, confirmation, confession. It's a bit mad.


  • Options
    #8
    John Wine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭John Wine


    DaveMcG wrote: »
    If and when I have kids, they better get into an educate together school!

    Just reading these posts reminds me of how absurd it is that people actually have to baptise their child in order to ensure they get into a school, and in order to fit in they have to make their communion, confirmation, confession. It's a bit mad.
    What would happen if they were angry with you for hiding faith / religion from you?

    Is it not better to expose them to it and of course question it with them rather than to effectively ban it or exclude it from experience / analysis?


  • Options
    #9
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Who says I'm hiding them from it? I'm all for religious education, but the child's right to education should not be predicated on their being a member of a certain religion.

    Besides, why should I choose to send them to a Catholic school to expose them to religion? If I do that then they could grow up and decide that Islam is for them, and be angry at me for sending them to school with hell-bound Jesus freaks.


  • Options
    #10
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Is baptism the only issue or does your girlfriend want to bring the child up Christian? I don't think there is any harm in having the child baptised, I wouldn't really object to it myself. It is more of a family day out than anything and if your girlfriend wants it then I don't think it is an issue worthy of having an argument about. However if she wants to bring the child up religious then that is another story altogether...


  • Options
    #11
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    When all is said and done it's just splashing a bit of water over the child. It's not like it actually means anything.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    rofl


  • Options
    #13
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    PDN wrote: »
    When all is said and done it's just splashing a bit of water over the child. It's not like it actually means anything.

    Thats a pretty bold statement from a Christian. Or were you being ironic.


  • Options
    #14
    Asiaprod
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    Thats a pretty bold statement from a Christian. Or were you being ironic.
    Factual imo, it will only ever actually mean what you make it to mean. Or even the other way around, you make it actually mean anything.


  • Options
    #15
    Beruthiel
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    PDN wrote: »
    When all is said and done it's just splashing a bit of water over the child. It's not like it actually means anything.

    I've just reported you to God for that one, he's fairly pissed off.


  • Options
    #16
    John Wine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭John Wine


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    Thats a pretty bold statement from a Christian. Or were you being ironic.
    I thnk where PDN is coming from in his Church they don't baptize kids. Most Evangelical Churches are like this.


  • Options
    #17
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    PDN wrote:
    When all is said and done it's just splashing a bit of water over the child. It's not like it actually means anything.
    Finding it difficult to shake off the entrails of atheism, eh, PDN? :)


  • Options
    #18
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    OP,

    I didn't & wouldn't get my children Christened or baptised - I don't care what people are trying to say it is "just" - to me it is a religious ceremony (clue's in the title) & I don't follow a religion, so getting my children Christened just so the rellies can have a knees up never entered my head - if that's all it's about, why not just have the party?! :confused:

    We got a few comments from my husbands family, none from mine (I think it's more of an issue here) but when all is said & done, they are our kids & we raise them the way we want, not for the benefit of anyone else or because of the horrendously old fashioned Irish school system.

    It really depends on your GF & her beliefs...my DH isn't religious either so I didn't have to have to go through the whole church wedding/Christening debacle, thankfully. There has to be some compromise if she feels strongly about it. I second the school choice, we had to put the kids names down at birth for our local ET school & they weren't first on the list! :eek:


  • Options
    #19
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    Thats a pretty bold statement from a Christian. Or were you being ironic.

    Not ironic at all. I don't think that splashing water over a child, or indeed an adult, without their consent means anything at all. Even where an adult willingly undergoes baptism it's only an external symbol of a decision they are making inside. You can baptise a cat if you wish, or train a parrot to recite Bible verses, but it doesn't mean anything.


  • Options
    #20
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    OP,

    I didn't & wouldn't get my children Christened or baptised - I don't care what people are trying to say it is "just" - to me it is a religious ceremony (clue's in the title) & I don't follow a religion, so getting my children Christened just so the rellies can have a knees up never entered my head - if that's all it's about, why not just have the party?! :confused:

    We got a few comments from my husbands family, none from mine (I think it's more of an issue here) but when all is said & done, they are our kids & we raise them the way we want, not for the benefit of anyone else or because of the horrendously old fashioned Irish school system.

    It really depends on your GF & her beliefs...my DH isn't religious either so I didn't have to have to go through the whole church wedding/Christening debacle, thankfully. There has to be some compromise if she feels strongly about it. I second the school choice, we had to put the kids names down at birth for our local ET school & they weren't first on the list! :eek:

    I think you've unintentionally outlined the most likely resolution of this question. The poster is male, so whatever his GF wants is what will happen.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #21
    Splendour
    Registered Users Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    challenge her on her beliefs and don't accept 'its the done thing' as an answer

    Very good point.
    I had my kids baptised as at the time I was a practising Catholic and really took on board what was going on during the ceremony.

    I have been to many Christenings were I want to scream at the priest and the parents of the baby involved because everone present at the ceremony knows what's being said is bull. They are doing simply because 'it's the done thing', or worse, for superstitious reasons.

    Now that I am no longer a Catholic, I don't believe in baptising babies at all.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    still learning
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭still learning


    thanks for all your replys
    ye know the main reason I think she would get them baptised is she's worried "what people would think"
    and when I start to think about it the thing that pisses me of the most is the bull**** the church fed to the last couple of generations about babies that wern't christened not going to heaven - I mean I'm pretty sure my granmother believes that the baby she miscarried is stuck in some terrible place
    its a shame


  • Options
    #23
    Wacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭Wacker


    still learning wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure my granmother believes that the baby she miscarried is stuck in some terrible place
    its a shame

    The Catholic Church changed their teaching on that subject a while ago. Now, unbaptised babies go to Heaven, rather than Limbo. No one goes to Limbo any more. I always thought that was quite an accomplishment - they removed a whole plane of reality!

    I'm not sure if I'll ever have kids, so I'd have to subsequently re-evaluate the education problem, but I would really be against getting children baptised. I think the ceremony of Baptism would actually mean something if people chose to get baptised themselves.


  • Options
    #24
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Wacker wrote: »
    The Catholic Church changed their teaching on that subject a while ago. Now, unbaptised babies go to Heaven, rather than Limbo. No one goes to Limbo any more. I always thought that was quite an accomplishment - they removed a whole plane of reality!

    I'm not sure if I'll ever have kids, so I'd have to subsequently re-evaluate the education problem, but I would really be against getting children baptised. I think the ceremony of Baptism would actually mean something if people chose to get baptised themselves.

    Limbo ... the Majorca of the theological world.


  • Options
    #25
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Wacker wrote: »
    The Catholic Church changed their teaching on that subject a while ago. Now, unbaptised babies go to Heaven, rather than Limbo. No one goes to Limbo any more. I always thought that was quite an accomplishment - they removed a whole plane of reality!

    Better than that - apparently research theologians determined that it didn't exist and never had.

    I love the idea of "research theologians" - perhaps in some Vatican laboratory, building the Metatron Supernatural Collider to study high-energy holy ghostleons and determine once and for all whether there is sufficient evidence that Limbo fits into the Catholic Standard Model. Finally announcing their results to a shocked Holy Father, who asks them whether they're sure they simply haven't set the bar too low?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #26
    Hivemind187
    Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭Hivemind187


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Better than that - apparently research theologians determined that it didn't exist and never had.

    I love the idea of "research theologians" - perhaps in some Vatican laboratory, building the Metatron Supernatural Collider to study high-energy holy ghostleons and determine once and for all whether Limbo fits into the Catholic Standard Model.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    +1 mental picture of the week. "Holy boffin's"


  • Options
    #27
    DerKaiser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 505 ✭✭✭DerKaiser


    Ok, I as an Athiest wouldn't like to baptise my child, but think of the childs future, when other kids in his/her class at school are making communion/confirmation and getting money and pressies the unbaptised child will be left out, it sounds like I'm saying conform for the sake of a quiet life, but you have to think of the kid too, I'd say if it means that much to your girlfriend do it and let the child make up their own when they make their confirmation


  • Options
    #28
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Hivemind187 wrote: »
    +1 mental picture of the week. "Holy boffin's"
    The "Limbo" Lab; sandwiched between "Vampires" and "Exorcisms"...


  • Options
    #29
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Ok, I as an Athiest wouldn't like to baptise my child, but think of the childs future, when other kids in his/her class at school are making communion/confirmation and getting money and pressies the unbaptised child will be left out, it sounds like I'm saying conform for the sake of a quiet life, but you have to think of the kid too, I'd say if it means that much to your girlfriend do it and let the child make up their own when they make their confirmation

    I hope my child would roll their eyes at such silliness and come to a restaurant for a nice dinner while all those other saps are stuck performing their ancient rituals.


  • Options
    #30
    Natalia Mysterious Palate
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Natalia Mysterious Palate


    DerKaiser wrote: »
    Ok, I as an Athiest wouldn't like to baptise my child, but think of the childs future, when other kids in his/her class at school are making communion/confirmation and getting money and pressies the unbaptised child will be left out

    You know, I don't think the religion is supposed to be about getting pressies :rolleyes:
    Leave them out and let them have a nice day out with a dinner and so on with the family instead.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Dades wrote: »
    The "Limbo" Lab; sandwiched between "Vampires" and "Exorcisms"...

    Hmm. I guess it would be OK to torture demons for information about Hell - updating Dante. Perhaps holy-waterboarding?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


Advertisement