religious families?

DerKaiser

bluewolf wrote: »

You know, I don't think the religion is supposed to be about getting pressies :rolleyes:

Course it is, why else do Christians get together every 25th of december to celebrate the birth of Santa?

lostexpectation

still learning wrote: »

thanks for all your replys
ye know the main reason I think she would get them baptised is she's worried "what people would think"
and when I start to think about it the thing that pisses me of the most is the bull**** the church fed to the last couple of generations about babies that wern't christened not going to heaven - I mean I'm pretty sure my granmother believes that the baby she miscarried is stuck in some terrible place
its a shame

well thats not a good enough reason you are in position to refuse.

Kernunos

I was actually having this conversation with a friend the other day, wondering what would i do when,god forbid, i actually have children that could be baptised. I think that the whole baptism thing is just an excuse to kind of introduce the baby to the extended family and i know in my family at least, it is often the first time the many of them get to see the baby. So perhaps hold off on the actual Christian ceremony, and just through a family gettogether. You could still have Godparent (perhaps just call them a different name) but just not involve the Church. That way traditions like silver spoons and grandmothers shawls would not have to die

Nevyn

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Scofflaw ... will you lay off the satanists please? They don't believe in god after all

That depends on the type of satanist.

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, I as an Athiest wouldn't like to baptise my child, but think of the childs future, when other kids in his/her class at school are making communion/confirmation and getting money and pressies the unbaptised child will be left out, it sounds like I'm saying conform for the sake of a quiet life, but you have to think of the kid too, I'd say if it means that much to your girlfriend do it and let the child make up their own when they make their confirmation

So you won't inform and parent you child but let it just follow along with everyone else cos they are doing it.

Hivemind187

Thaedydal wrote: »

That depends on the type of satanist.

Difference being "satanist" generally referring to the LaVey Church of Satan system which believes in no such nonsense as deities yet embraces dogma and ritual as useful psychological tools for various thing from self realisation (whatever that is) to cleansing your mind of the desire to hurt an enemy.

A Satan Worshipper, which is the thing you were intending to refer to I believe, does believe in God and Satan as actual entities and tries to channel their influences and power etc for whatever purposes suit them.

One is a philosophical system that is fully aware of its own mild hyporcrisy whereas the other is a religion with no specific or well known system of beliefs etc.

qwertplaywert

DerKaiser wrote: »

Ok, I as an Athiest wouldn't like to baptise my child, but think of the childs future, when other kids in his/her class at school are making communion/confirmation and getting money and pressies the unbaptised child will be left out, it sounds like I'm saying conform for the sake of a quiet life, but you have to think of the kid too, I'd say if it means that much to your girlfriend do it and let the child make up their own when they make their confirmation

So if a bunch of your sons classmates were raping someone, its okay for him to join in, just for he can fit in?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if he didn't, they might kill him in case he ratted them out.

beans

I wouldn't be happy making vows before a Catholic priest and shrugging it off as meaningless or inconsequential. to me that would be quite disrespectful of their beliefs. Similarly people taking communion to keep up appearances, when they hold no Catholic beliefs other than those imposed on them as a child.

Something as important as accepting Christ is not something a child can physically do, certainly not something I would do for my child. If someone chooses this later, that's their perogative and best of luck with it.

So for me, this would be a no-no. But having said that, when the lady I wish to marry turns to me and springs such a situation on me, I don't know how I'd react. I know how i'd like to react, but...

Dades

beans wrote: »

But having said that, when the lady I wish to marry turns to me and springs such a situation on me, I don't know how I'd react. I know how i'd like to react, but...

Therein lies the rub.

Myksyk

Isn't it a bitch when we have to actually make a decision in real life as opposed to board life!! I think I'm a pragmatist at heart and I would be willing to have a child baptised if it meant that I had a better choice of schools etc. At the end of the day the kid will make up their own mind. I got baptised and genuine attempts were made to inculcate the catholic faith into my little being ... look what good it did!

beans

I gather from conversations here that this has been done to death elsewhere on the forum, but in a nutshell, can you be refused from a Catholic school if you're not baptised? Apologies, I remember a million-page thread but don't remember the nub of the argument

stereoroid

Basically, if the school is over-subscribed, and the Catholic school administrators have to choose between two kids, one baptised, one unbaptised... Independent article here.

Scofflaw

stereoroid wrote: »

Basically, if the school is over-subscribed, and the Catholic school administrators have to choose between two kids, one baptised, one unbaptised... Independent article here.

It's slightly more insidious, in that they can put a Catholic child on the waiting list before a non-Catholic - and in general, they will also put a Protestant above an unbaptised child. The increase in uncertainty for the atheist parent is quite large, because almost every school is notionally over-subscribed, a result of parents putting their child's name down at three of four schools.

cordially,
Scofflaw

beans

Aye, with that in mind I would probably opt for baptism. Ideally I'd choose to raise any children in a society where this wouldn't be an issue, but failing an exodus I wouldn't want to do anything that would restrict my kids' choices down the line.

Ridiculous that this is even an issue tbh...

Eglinton

Can you not just say your child is Catholic on the application form? Scanners/Printers/Photoshop are all great for bastismal certs if needs be. It's not a legal document so it's fair game. You'd just be forging a fictional document for a fictional religion.

I cannot see how a primary school can legally re-arrange a waiting list based on water splashing. The day will come that a serious legal mind who's athiest will try to enrol their child in one of these schools and I think a new precedent will then be set in the courtrooms of Ireland.

There is also the option of the state taking over the Catholic schools altogether. They already pay the wages etc.

The price should be somewhere in the region of 'Free'.
Simple choice - Hand over the schools or the State stops paying the Clerical Abuse Victims compensation.




A bit of a rant I know!

robindch

Eglinton wrote:

]I cannot see how a primary school can legally re-arrange a waiting list based on water splashing

This should be put into the forum FAQ

Yes, it's perfectly legal for a school to do this. It's there in black and white in the current (slightly inaccurately named) Equal Status Act:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1195687272

See subsection 3(c). It's religious discrimination, at the taxpayer's expense.

Eglinton

Thanks for the link. That's rather dubious legal language. It could surely be challenged particularly with reference to international laws concerning a right to an education.

I'm surprised it's such a recent Act. Although perhaps that particular section is a legacy from previous Acts.



p.s. Could a Mod please correct the title on this thread? It's really irritating.

Dades

Eglinton wrote: »

p.s. Could a Mod please correct the title on this thread? It's really irritating.

Done! No longer "family's" for those who didn't even notice.

PDN

Myksyk wrote: »

Isn't it a bitch when we have to actually make a decision in real life as opposed to board life!!

No, I think it applies to male children just as much as females.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

No, I think it applies to male children just as much as females.

Needs more salt.

cordially,
Scofflaw