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Marvel Civil War - what next ?
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07-11-2007 10:29am#1
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AngryBadger wrote: »I completely disagree on all points.
I think marvel are writing some great stories, and for the most part I've been immensely satisfied with any follow-ups or spin-off series I've read.
There is a continuity "issue" in that if, like me, you read several Marvel books, you can have stories taking place with overlapping cast members which can throw you a tad, like the current iron man arc is a bit of a headmelt given that he's also a major character in WWH.
Other than that though I love what marvel's doing. Of course there's a bit of gauging going on with some of the tie-ins, but for the most part I thought any tie-ins I read were excellent, and really added to the story without being essential to it.
The only thing I thought was a really bad call in the last while was the battle between Spidey and iron man in Civil War. It started in Amazing Spider-man and then continued in Civil War. This meant that, since I wasn't reading Amazing at the time, I picked up Civil War and all of a sudden SPidey and Iron Man, who up until now had been buxom buddies, were duking it out. That really pissy me off because they penalised the fans for not buying a tie-in book.
Bear in mind that Queseda's also adopted a very liberal stance on continuity i.e. he's only enforcing it s long as it doesn't ruin any good stories. And I have no problem with that.
hey AB, long time no see
i think youve taken me up wrong. its not so much the stories but the editorial direction. more and more marvel seem to be concentrating on their books as trades and not ongoing series anymore. take civil war, if you wanderd away from comics for say a decade your last experience of a cross over was probably one of the x ones like executioners song , you'd know you'd have to collect all the parts to get a whole story. while civil war was an improvement in that you could just buy the mini and didnt really need all the books if you just dropped back in you'd think you'd have to buy EVERY single marvel book pubished for EIGHT MONTHS to get the story. and thats just too intimidating for a returning fan. worse as a guy who actually has half an idea whats going on even I was lost in terms of what books to buy as they came out.
it was near a year later when i finally figured out what i wanted (basically the mini, the new avengers tie in which was really good particularly the cage story which amazed me cause im not a fan of his, and the spidey trade which was wrote very well by JMS . loved the bit where peters fighting cap and he thinks " then he does it, throws the symbol of the whole damn nation at me!" ). the problem is i'd no way of figuring out how the hell to do this when the books were originally released without reading the damn things in the shop and as such i didnt buy any.
then when i found out virtually the entire roster of new avengers changed i actually had a jumping off point as i could argue it wasnt the same trade ive been buying for ages. the whole direction in marvels editorial staff seems to be almost anti fan. i suppose it makes sense as the money is now in the trades but it pisses me off when like you said your buying a book and then suddenly out of the blue you realise you need another title youve no interest in to finish the story. ususally thats nothing new but at least the feckers would TELL you what book to pick up. now its a crap shoot.
the cardinel sin for me though is what was done to avengers. Queseda axed half the x books way back when because he thought it was diluting the concept and here he is cloning the fecking thing. i was really enjoying new avengers and was looking forward to learning more about characters like the sentry then they go and chuck him onto "mighty avengers" whos written by a guy i dont know and has sub standard art in my eyes.
the aftermath of civil war couldve been bloody brillant if it was kept in the core marvel titles. instead theyve spun at least half a dozen books out of it to do the job and im not arsed buying them. particularly when i can pick and choose a trade a few months down the line for half the price (kinda thinking about he omega flight book at the moment and have just bought fallen son)
argh. i dont mean to be so negative its just that the marvel universe used to be so accessible and now if a newbie asked me to point them in the direction of a good book i honestly couldnt tell them were to go where they'd have a long term enjoyment of a title. or hell even if the thing would exist a year down the line !
all this really makes me glad TRANSFORMERS is at IDW. the editorial staff there are practically like 80s marvel.0 -
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constitutionus wrote: »hey AB, long time no see
Yeah I have some downtime before my next big adventure You gonna be at this comicon ina few weks? Should get some proper face-time in (read:I'll drink your ass under the table :P)constitutionus wrote: »i think youve taken me up wrong. its not so much the stories but the editorial direction. more and more marvel seem to be concentrating on their books as trades and not ongoing series anymore.
I do agree that Marvel are definitely viewing each story with an eye to how it'll fit as a graphic novel, but I don't feel the stories are suffering as a result, in fact I feel they're stronger because everyone is forced to keep things tighter, and more streamlined which makes for a more cohesive story overall, and does lead to some pretty bitchin trades!
Like I pointed out before I agree that "lip service" tie-ins are wrong. Just plain wrong! And anyone who advocates splitting a single major plot development between two books that don't overlap should be sot (eg. Spidey vs. Iron Man). But I feel that the tie-ins that are essential to the main-mini's are kept to an absolute minimum. i'm inclined to buy a lot of tie-ins, (I love being a working man:D), and therefore I'm wel apraised of exactly how much impact on te main story all these tie-ins have. Now, I'm saying that with regard to exactly how much it will diminish your enjoyment of the tale if you DON'T READ the tie-ins, in other words I find most of the tie-ins enhance the story, but if you don't read them you're not osing out on the main event. So say keep 'em coming.constitutionus wrote: »i was really enjoying new avengers and was looking forward to learning more about characters like the sentry then they go and chuck him onto "mighty avengers" whos written by a guy i dont know and has sub standard art in my eyes.
Brian michael bendis (who was writing new Avengers when it launched and is still writing it) is also writing new Avengers, so you still get to elarn about The Sentry and so on. See for me, I agree that the cloning of the X-books was a disaster, and it's happening again, and is the reason i stopped reading Ultimate X-men, but with new Avengers vs Mighty Avengers, it made eprfect sense to me. With Mighty Avengers you have the LEAGL Avengers team, the flagship supergroup of the whole initiative set-up, while New Avengers is the resistance group, they've basically given a whole book over to the guys that are going to be spearheading whatever action coems along to oppose the consequences of Civil War (and you know THAT'S gonna happen!). This makes perfect sense to me, Bendis is now free to develop these two groups as perfect examples of the two sides of the Marvel U. New Avengers are are fronting for the heroes who resent registration. While Mighty Avengers are flying the flag of the establishment, what they feel registration is really about, getting legal and saving lives.
the aftermath of civil war couldve been bloody brillant if it was kept in the core marvel titles. instead theyve spun at least half a dozen books out of it to do the job and im not arsed buying them. particularly when i can pick and choose a trade a few months down the line for half the price (kinda thinking about he omega flight book at the moment and have just bought fallen son)
argh. i dont mean to be so negative its just that the marvel universe used to be so accessible and now if a newbie asked me to point them in the direction of a good book i honestly couldnt tell them were to go where they'd have a long term enjoyment of a title. or hell even if the thing would exist a year down the line!constitutionus wrote: »all this really makes me glad TRANSFORMERS is at IDW. the editorial staff there are practically like 80s marvel.
Yeah see this last line explains why I'm loving what marvel is doing and you're hating it. I've been reading some of the IDW stuff, as well as all my Marvel stuff, and while i'm enjoying the new IDW Transformers comics, they're massively over-simplified in comparison to what Marvel is going. Enjoyable, dont'g et me wrong, and the artowrk (or at least everything drawn by Figuero) is stunning. But the stories just don't compare man. I mean come on, robot-religion? Robot "clones"??? You don't have clones of robots, youight have a copy, or a duplicate or somethin, but in my view calling a robot a clone is just being lazy. If you're going to go in those kinds of directions thenat least try to make them look original, as in tailored to the characters you're writing for. For example if they'd described starscreams "clone" as a character who was constructed by the same people who made Starscream, or in the same place, or using some of Starscreams cerebral circuitry, or basicall ANYTHING other than a clone of him, I would have found it compeltely acceptable.
Anyway, there you go it's steak time.0 -
dont know if i can make it for the con as me work roster is all over the place but have to admit its a hell of a line up. never thought i'd see jim lee this side of the atlantic
bit confused about your comments on the transformers stuff. theyre not doing anything with clones at the moment. unless your confusing it with the human built reverse engineered sunstreakers that are knocking about in devastation at the moment which i thought was a nice take on the headmasters concept (the only one i think that can work considering it gives humans a hell of a weapon system. cant see how the target/powermaster process could be done without looking stupid) . and starscreams been stuck in a CR chamber since megatron blew a big whole in him at the end of infiltration. in regards to the religion thing i think that was bludgeon just being nuts. theyve pretty much avoided the whole primus/ unicron thing and indeed no ones seen the matrix since a cameo in stormbringer so it looks like theyre trying to stick to a more sci/fi military edge this time around and avoiding religon altogether
its not really fair to compare whats going on in avengers and TF at the moment as marvels still drawing on all the existing continuity and relationships between characters therefore negating the need to build back story whereas furmans restarting the TF one from scratch over at IDW re-establishing how each character relates to each other , the factions and their tech. case in point megatron and galvatron now being totally seperate unrelated characters and prime being a far more militaristic leader who has no problem writing off whole worlds.
personally i think furmans doing some of his best stuff in ages and the idea of the war being fought on multiple fronts all across the galaxy preventing them massing on one planet but simultaeonously allowing him to drop in any character as he wants to into the story was a stroke of genius. also this is the first time ive actually seen the deceps act like an army with an actual invasion protocol/strategy that made sense led by a megatron that was credible as a genuine threat. furmans deliberatly took a slow burn approach thats really starting to payoff now what with all the various plot threads coming together.
and all this in a book that in real terms is only 14 issues old.
im not hating whats going on at marvel, i just find it bewildering from an ongoing series point of view which is why im basically a trade guy now and tend to focus on the writers more than the title. so i'll follow bendis, millar, ellis and stracynski in pretty much anything they do. case in point ellis's newuniversal. damn good read. and i loved his ultimate galactus trilogy . so i dont see myself leaving the marvel universe entirely (though i have to admit ive pretty much dropped all the x books, even as trades i just dont find them interesting anymore) i just wish all this paralell title stuff would end. like you said the new/mighty avengers stuff makes sense but the multiple iron man/ ghostrider things just do my head in and theres so many x men minis that i dont know which is stand alone and which is part of the ongoing anymore.0 -
With the "clone" thing I'm referring to a story where Starscream was cloned to produce another decepticon called Sunspot, or something? This was in the second or third G1 mini, can't remember the name though. It just seemed lazy to tlak about clones in a story about sentient robots since none of the tenants that make someone a clone can be applied to robots.
Regarding religion. Yeah it was largely concerned with Bludgeon, that's a fair enough point. I actually love the Primus/Unicron/Matrix backstory to the transformers, and I don't consider that religion, so I'd have no problem with Furman delving into that. It just peeved me off when he had a bunch of transformers standing around a barrel and chanting, I thought it was too much.
Haven't actually been reading the current G1 series to be honest, mainly just the one-shots, War Within stories, and just finished "Megatron:Origin" which I liked, although I wish they hadn't killed off Sentinel Prime so quickly.
I'm thinking i must pick up some of the current G1 stuff so, you've turned me you malignant old bastard
Fair enough about things being a bit hard to follow and MU. We'll just have to agree to disagree 0 -
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constitutionus wrote: »SUNSTORM!
lord you wouldnt belive how many people that stuff pissed off. that was the old dreamwave continuity wrote by patrick mac donnagh
That explains a lot!
I think I willconstitutionus wrote: »check out infiltration or escalation (stormbringer sits between the two but isnt really necesary to the earth story). infiltration in particular is basically about building megatron into a bad ass. the last two parts in particular are particularly brutal. some great dialogue in the fight with starscream. it reads alot better as a trade as its a slow burner but the pay off is great.constitutionus wrote: »by the way word is sentinel prime isnt dead.
Best news I've had all day!
Right, I'll definitely have to pick up some more of the new IDW Stuff so. particularly interested in the original prime we saw briefly in the Optimus Prime spotlight story, (with Omega Supreme and the Predacons - excellent stuff!)
You've turned me Conn, and may God have mercy on your soul for it!
P.S. I agree with you about the X-books totally, but if you d nothing else then start reading New Avengers again, it's fantastic, and Lienil Yu's pencils are stunning!0 -
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Yu's art is gorgeous. ive loved his stuff since his xmen era. he did a lovely annual in "widescreen" back around 2000 featuring domino/ wolverine / cyclops going up against the U men, i think either morrison or ennis wrote it. cant quite remember now . never understood why he didnt get more work.
ive been following new avengers and did enjoy the latest trade with dr strange (loved the bit with his gaff " starbucks! opening soon !!) so i'll probably stick with it as long as the qualitys up to scratch (and i have to admit theyre propper underdogs now and that always plays well. Yu's art really lends itself well to darker stories. ) and may even check out the mighty one to see how the politics works out between the two books. probably get the avengers "lluminati" as well when it gets the trade treatement. i really liked the one shot included in the civil war prelude as it set a great backround to the whole thing and the one or two issues of the mini ive seen have some great ideas (always liked the infinity gauntlet, and skrulls to boot!)
in regards to the transformers stuff, though not necessary, try and check out the first spotlight trade. the shockwave one in particular really expands on the whole IDW universe and explains where ore 13 and the ultra energon came from (and features the only appearance of IDWs dinobots so far) plus some of the backround on the stormbringer storyline . im pretty sure the line up for the book is : shockwave,nightbeat,sixshot,hot rod, ultra magnus.
i have to admit to LOVING the spotlights. theyre really tight generally self contained books and because its told from the point of view of one character generally give a good insight to their motivations ( take the sixshot one. alot of people hated it but i loved it as it revealed him to be a functional psychopath. he feels literally nothing when he's not killing things (see worlds
) and is one step from leaving the deceps totally because of isolation) plus theyre a goldmine for cameos (banzai tron! fecking banzai tron running a decepticon penal conloy in the hotrod part )
as for nova prime word is he's gonna be back in "revelation" the mini after the current devastation series. im looking forward to him to, seems a right bastard, and what this new jhiaxus is going to be like. after all if he was doing combiners way back when whats he been up to now !0 -
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