Management Company

partyguinness

I have advised for both sides in management company disputes.

My fundamental point is that..such conditions are enforceable if you want to persue it but usually nobody could be arsed taking court proceedings..too long and expensive and not good for neighbourly relations or ones health. In summary, its not worth the hassle.

In relation to your situation. Your solicitor is taking a practical view of things which I would agree with...i.e.- 9 times out of ten the other side are not going to bother chasing it save maybe a few solicitor letters you might get...but they can.

Also there are other title/legal issues which may be relevant to your situation..e.g. freehold/leashold title, equity or common law covenants etc etc.

techdiver

20goto10 wrote: »

I'm talking about a house. I did not agree to the condition but was told sign it or lose your house and deposit. So I took legal advice and was told its not enforceable so go ahead and sign. You're basically saying the contract overrules any laws governing the issue. No disrespect I'm sure you know your stuff but you're hardly going to argue in the favour of the contractee given that you have said

Surely they can't threaten to not return your deposit based on a contract that was not communicated to you at the time of the deposit was paid?

Perhaps partyguiness can verify this for us.

partyguinness

If the contract wasnt signed then you are free to pull out and have your deposit refunded in full.

You would have not lost you deposit. That was a scare tactic. Clearly you wanted the house badly.

20goto10

partyguinness wrote: »

If the contract wasnt signed then you are free to pull out and have your deposit refunded in full.

You would have not lost you deposit. That was a scare tactic. Clearly you wanted the house badly.

I knew it was a scare tactic at the time. But I was also advised it was not enforceable so after that I did not have a problem.

You still do not have me convinced partyguinness. Sorry to question your expertise but as I'm sure you're aware for every argument there is a counter argument and if I had to go to court I'm pretty sure I would have enough to go on to keep my satellite dish. And the fact that they have taken down dishes in the apartment block in the same estate but have been unable to remove any of the dishes from the houses would also suggest that it is the laws governing the erection of satellite dishes and not the fact that you have signed a contract which decides who can and cannot erect a dish. Likewise pets, clothes lines and any other tripe these management companies come out with.

partyguinness

20goto10 wrote: »

I knew it was a scare tactic at the time. But I was also advised it was not enforceable so after that I did not have a problem.

You still do not have me convinced partyguinness. Sorry to question your expertise but as I'm sure you're aware for every argument there is a counter argument and if I had to go to court I'm pretty sure I would have enough to go on to keep my satellite dish. And the fact that they have taken down dishes in the apartment block in the same estate but have been unable to remove any of the dishes from the houses would also suggest that it is the laws governing the erection of satellite dishes and not the fact that you have signed a contract which decides who can and cannot erect a dish. Likewise pets, clothes lines and any other tripe these management companies come out with.

As stated above..in an apartment block..there is a lease and it is alot easier to enforce the covenants primarily because you have a management company policing it. You are a tenant.

The legal title to a house is completely different from an apartment block; there is no lease which makes it harder to enforce then an apartment block but not impossible. It is highly unusual to have a contract for a freehold title (house) with a covenant re satellite dishes. In fact I have never seen it.

Is it within the same development? Are you paying management fees?

There are many factors to take into account and I cannot specifically talk about your house without all the facts which only your solicitor will know about and have on file.

20goto10

partyguinness wrote: »

As stated above..in an apartment block..there is a lease and it is alot easier to enforce the covenants primarily because you have a management company policing it. You are a tenant.

The legal title to a house is completely different from an apartment block; there is no lease which makes it harder to enforce then an apartment block but not impossible. It is highly unusual to have a contract for a freehold title (house) with a covenant re satellite dishes. In fact I have never seen it.

Is it within the same development? Are you paying management fees?

There are many factors to take into account and I cannot specifically talk about your house without all the facts which only your solicitor will know about and have on file.

It sounds to me like you are agreeing that the contract is not the be all and end all

I don't want to focus on my situation because it is not an issue. I've had a dish for 3 or 4 years now and it hasn't gone any further than empty threats and I'm confident thats as far as they can go. We are wandering a bit from the initial argument, just because you signed something does not necessarily mean you are bound to it.

partyguinness

20goto10 wrote: »

It sounds to me like you are agreeing that the contract is not the be all and end all

I don't want to focus on my situation because it is not an issue. I've had a dish for 3 or 4 years now and it hasn't gone any further than empty threats and I'm confident thats as far as they can go. We are wandering a bit from the initial argument, just because you signed something does not necessarily mean you are bound to it.

I dont understand by what you mean by the be all and end all.

How successfully a covenant can be enforced will also depend on the title to the property. There are other factors to consider. It is not black and white but the Contract will be the starting point and if you have signed it, it is very hard to worm out of it.

Now I am repeating myself here but as I keep saying..if you enter into a Contract with conditions be they negative or positive..thenycan be enforced but for something as trivial as a satellite dish...nobody is going to go to court for that BUT they can and the basis of the court action will be for breach of contract.

20goto10

partyguinness wrote: »

I dont understand by what you mean by the be all and end all.

How successfully a covenant can be enforced will also depend on the title to the property. There are other factors to consider. It is not black and white but the Contract will be the starting point and if you have signed it, it is very hard to worm out of it.

Now I am repeating myself here but as I keep saying..if you enter into a Contract with conditions be they negative or positive..thenycan be enforced but for something as trivial as a satellite dish...nobody is going to go to court for that BUT they can and the basis of the court action will be for breach of contract.

I think we both have a different understanding of the word enforce. I mean they can't make me take it down. And I'm confident the courts can't either.

techdiver

20goto10 wrote: »

I think we both have a different understanding of the word enforce. I mean they can't make me take it down. And I'm confident the courts can't either.

Correct. Refer to the below EU regulation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

partyguinness

20goto10 wrote: »

I think we both have a different understanding of the word enforce. I mean they can't make me take it down. And I'm confident the courts can't either.

Nobody can make you physically take it down..nobody is going to send heavies around to pull it off the wall..if thats what you mean by 'enforcement'..

Not sure on what your confidence is based on...but, as your own solicitor will tell you, nobody in their right mind will bother taking court proceedings over a dish....just not worth it..so you can effectively brazen it out.

partyguinness

techdiver wrote: »

Correct. Refer to the below EU regulation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Thats not an EU Regulation or Directive..its a Communication..very different and has not legal effect whatsoever..its simply a proposal by the commission..now having said that...its usually the first stepping stone toward a EU Directive which can happen years down the line or simple fade into memory.

20goto10

techdiver wrote: »

Correct. Refer to the below EU regulation.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=1&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Thanks techdriver. That pretty much explains why something like this is unlikely to go to court, because they cannot enforce it. I wonder how this stretches to the use of satellite dishes in apartment blocks. Aspartyguinness has pointed out you are effectively a tenant even though you own the apartment.

In addition, the right to receive information via satellite dish is related to the fundamental right to freedom of expression, which is established by the European Convention on Human Right

I always suspected they were breaking competition laws and consumer laws but the European Convention On Human Rights! Thats a nice bit of ammo the next time I get a no satellite dish reminder in the door. Surely that overrules any tenancy agreement, both as an aparment owner or as a lodger? I guess someone will have to go all the way to the European courts before we find out.

Paulw

partyguinness wrote: »

Thats not an EU Regulation or Directive..its a Communication..very different and has not legal effect whatsoever..its simply a proposal by the commission..now having said that...its usually the first stepping stone toward a EU Directive which can happen years down the line or simple fade into memory.

Exactly. It also only states that you have the right to receive satellite communication. So, not permitting the mounting of satellite dishes isn't actually against that communication. There are ways to receive satellite signals without mounting a dish on your building.

SimpleSam06

partyguinness wrote: »

If you sign a contract and the courts can enforce the conditions against you then you are bound by it

Funnily enough, thats exactly what I said.

partyguinness wrote: »

d. I am a solicitor

Great. Do you think its the best idea to be handing out legal advice on an internet forum?