Meat substitutes

The Chessplayer

Would consider myself to have a good diet. I am not a vegetarian at all but was considering trying to go veggie once or twice a week to see how I got on after reading about fish-farms etc.

Just had lunch with a lad who claims that vegetarian meat substitutes (e.g. soy protein) are no match for what we get from meat and fish.

What do vegetarians eat to make up for this? What would be a good meal idea?

Mentalmiss

Meat substitutes are not a good source of anything other than chemicals and additives and not a good addition to any diet.
I have been vegetarian for 30 years and have so far managed to avoid them and become the healthiest person I know.
Please tell me why you think that you need to eat this rubbish.

BurnsCarpenter

Mentalmiss wrote: »

Meat substitutes are not a good source of anything other than chemicals and additives and not a good addition to any diet.
I have been vegetarian for 30 years and have so far managed to avoid them and become the healthiest person I know.
Please tell me why you think that you need to eat this rubbish.

Lots of people are vegetarian for ethical rather than health reasons.
Lots of these people actually enjoyed eating meat, and these products are pretty good approximations.

Washout

Mentalmiss wrote: »

Meat substitutes are not a good source of anything other than chemicals and additives and not a good addition to any diet.
I have been vegetarian for 30 years and have so far managed to avoid them and become the healthiest person I know.
Please tell me why you think that you need to eat this rubbish.

soya chunks are good meat substitutes...its got that good chewy texture of meat. i love em.

Tar.Aldarion

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Would consider myself to have a good diet. I am not a vegetarian at all but was considering trying to go veggie once or twice a week to see how I got on after reading about fish-farms etc.

Just had lunch with a lad who claims that vegetarian meat substitutes (e.g. soy protein) are no match for what we get from meat and fish.

What do vegetarians eat to make up for this? What would be a good meal idea?

Are there any vitamins etc that you think in particular that there would be lacking?

Her is an extract from a sticky here that I wrote.

Key Foods for Your Main Meals

Protein:Many People believe that vegetarian and particularly vegan diets cannot
possibly provide sufficient protein.This is an old wives' tale.
Eight essential amino acids are needed to make a complete protein.Dairy products,eggs and
soya products(tofu,tempeh,soya drinks and desserts)all provide complete protein in themselves.

Combining whole grains(unrefined wheat,rye,millet,barlet,spelt,rice,quinoa)
with pulses(beans,peas,lentils)and supplementing with small amounts of nuts and seeds also
provides plenty of protein.All the essential amino acids are found in combinations
such as beans on toast,lentil curry with brown rice,musli with milk,hummus made from chickpeas
and sesame tahini,peanut butter sandwiches made from wholemeal bread.It isn't even necessary
to combine different food types at the samee meal since our bodies can store amino
acids for later use.

As with meat-eaters,it is important(and normal) foe vegetarians to base their eating pattern
on a wide variety of high quality foods.

Iron:is another nutrient often thought to be deficent in plant based diets,and
iron deficiency is indeed the most common deficiency in both vegetarians and meat-eaters diets.
Whatever your diet,you should avoid drinking milk or tea a mealtimes because both calcium in
dairy products and tannic acid in tea inhibit the absorption of iron from other foods.

Iron rich foods include dried fruits(weight for weight dried apricots contain
four times more iron than lamb does)nuts(especially brazils),wholegrains,dried peas,
beans and lentils,leafy green vegetables,molasses and egg yokes.Although iron may be absorbed
more easily through meat,the plus for vegetarians is that they eat foods which contain good
amounts of vitamin C,not contained in meat,and this boosts their absorbtion of iron.

Zinc:has numerous functions in the body.It has antioxidant properties
and is vital for the immune system,for the repair and renewal of skin cells and for the senses
of smell and taste.It is available for vegetarians in pumpkin,sunflower seeds
and sesame seeds(tahini being the best source),lentils,wholegrains,cheese,almonds and tofu.

Vitamin A:an antioxidant vitamin,is required for the health of skin,eyes,mucous passages
and the reproductive system.It is available for vegetarians as betacarotene which
is plentiful in vegetables that are red,orange or yellow.

B Complex Vitamins:support a multiple of functions in the body including the
immune system,the digestive system and the nervous system.They are readily available from wholegrains,beans nuts,
dairy produce, and protects that contain yeast such as vegetarian yeast-based spreads.

Vege'tar'ians and especially vegans need to be particularly careful about maintaining
their b12 intake,which is essential for their intake of iron.This vitamin appears in egg yolk,
dairy products,yeast extracts and soya products but not in plant foods.Some people
may wish to suppliment this.You can use B12 tablets or take spirulina,chlorella or blue algae
which contain naturally occurring B12.Ya can get these in health stores.

What about animal fats you ask?

We need fats in our body as a source of energy,to repair tissue,to transport vitamins and to
manufacture hormones.Fats are made up of fatty acids,two of which are termed 'essential'
and can only be found in food.These are linoleic and linolenic fatty acids.These are widely
found in plant foods such as nuts and seeds as well as in oily fish.Our bodies are designed to
need a regular intake of these essential acids,particularly for energy,skin health
and brain function.Plant sources of fats offer a far healthier option than the saturated fats
found in meat which are which are associated with degenerative diseases such as heart
problems and furred arteries.

back to...
Key Foods For Main Meals

Vegetarians are often more aware than meat-eaters of the benifits provided by wholegrains,
and in many ways have been trail blazers in their adherence to less processed,more nutritious
foods free of genetically modified organisms.The first and last part of a plant to be sprayed
with chemical spray is the outer husk,so for health-conscious ppl cooking wholegrain
cereals it is sensible to choose organic,unsprayed versions.

sweet-rasmus

i personally think the fake meat range is basically a quick and easy filling meal to cook sure, you get alot of protein and vitamins from a lot of them, but i wouldnt be able to compare their nutritional value to meat. the fake meats are just there to substitute where you may have eaten meat, not their nutritional value. if anything, i'd imagine a soya protein fake meat has quite a different effect on your digestive system, ie. a much shorter digestion time, and far different benefits...

The Chessplayer

What about fish?

rubadub

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What about fish?

OP was against fishfarms.

Mentalmiss

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What about fish?

What about fish.
Last time I checked this was still a veg/vegan forum.

sweet-rasmus

Mentalmiss wrote: »

What about fish.
Last time I checked this was still a veg/vegan forum.

yes yes... this has been covered before, without much of a positive result. :rolleyes: no need to go through that again

The Chessplayer

What about deep-fried mars bars? Didn't Elvis eat those? Surely that is a food that vegans, vegetarians, and meat lovers can all eat together in harmony.

sweet-rasmus

The Chessplayer wrote: »

What about deep-fried mars bars? Didn't Elvis eat those? Surely that is a food that vegans, vegetarians, and meat lovers can all eat together in harmony.

bit of an odd post to throw in here

Nature Boy

Yeah I think that guy is smoking some strange sh1te

Peanut

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Just had lunch with a lad who claims that vegetarian meat substitutes (e.g. soy protein) are no match for what we get from meat and fish.

I think a lot of the reason for this type of opinion is down to the society you live in also. If the food options feature meat prominently, then there will be less veg* variety, and yes, it will be more difficult to eat well and stay vegetarian or vegan.

I don't think I could stay very healthy living in some eastern european countries, or Russia, for example, unless I had enough knowledge about where and what to eat, or made my own food all the time. In this case, in the absence of any decent veg* variety, eating meat (more so fish) would likely improve your diet.

So while I think your friend was mostly talking rubbish, it's not too difficult to see where he might get the idea from if his only conception of non-meat cuisine is along the lines of salad and potatoes.

I think that eastern european countries are much more open minded about foodstuffs, because they have tremendous variety in their diet compared to us. I think you could only improve your diet living there.
They commonly include beans,nut and seeds,rye,barley groats etc They have an educated pallete and a pride in their food.

The fruit and veg is incomparable in terms of taste, range, quality ,seasonality and affordability. I find alot of Irish people are scared of vegetables.

Actually I suspect meat,dairy and potatoes are the only products where we have a quality advantage. ohh and obviously tea! Although all that herbal stuff probably has health benefits.

Being so meat centred I find that they have a greater range of meat substitues. In more useable forms, like cold "meat" cuts.

The Chessplayer

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think that eastern european countries are much more open minded about foodstuffs, because they have tremendous variety in their diet compared to us. I think you could only improve your diet living there.
They commonly include beans,nut and seeds,rye,barley groats etc They have an educated pallete and a pride in their food.

The fruit and veg is incomparable in terms of taste, range, quality ,seasonality and affordability. I find alot of Irish people are scared of vegetables.

Actually I suspect meat,dairy and potatoes are the only products where we have a quality advantage. ohh and obviously tea! Although all that herbal stuff probably has health benefits.

Being so meat centred I find that they have a greater range of meat substitues. In more useable forms, like cold "meat" cuts.

This guy actually was Eastern European, but his arguement was that the proteins in soya are inferior to that of meat. Was just wondering if there was any basis for his arguement.

Peanut

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think that eastern european countries are much more open minded about foodstuffs, because they have tremendous variety in their diet compared to us.
..

Yeah that could be true alright, I suppose I am thinking more about the concept of 'vegetarianism' being less well known (if at all) and therefore more effort is needed to research what is what..

I was in Bulgaria for a while earlier this year and found it pretty challenging to eat well - go to a pizza stall and they may all be meat varieties etc.

I remember reading a veg. guide to Russia mentioning that if you were vegan, you might be better off staying at home...

Moonbaby wrote: »

I find alot of Irish people are scared of vegetables.

The meat and two veg syndrome.

Moonbaby wrote: »

Actually I suspect meat,dairy and potatoes are the only products where we have a quality advantage.

Strawberries! - it is a source of mystery how something so sweet and delicate can come out of this sodden climate

The Chessplayer wrote:

This guy actually was Eastern European, but his arguement was that the proteins in soya are inferior to that of meat. Was just wondering if there was any basis for his arguement.

Yeah he's talking about those magical meat vitamins that give you the super meat powers...
Complete_protein

Tar.Aldarion

The Chessplayer wrote: »

This guy actually was Eastern European, but his arguement was that the proteins in soya are inferior to that of meat. Was just wondering if there was any basis for his arguement.

No, there is not. He talks the non sense.

tristanc

Personally, if you're trying to meals a week as veggie, I'd skip the 'meat substitute' approach. If you're cooking in, there's tons of good recipes on the web. If you mostly eat out, I'd recommend going 'ethnic' as the easiest - ie indian, arabic, thai, etc. - a lot of them have a number of veggie options that are part of their normal cuisine.

Protein wise, most weightlifters, fighters, etc. use protein powders to get all the protein needed to built their mass, and those powders aren't getting their proteins out of meat - generally either whey (milk) or soy protein. Not that I'd recommend that as a meal substitute plan, just as an example that the non-meat proteins certainly can build muscle as well

For your normal veggie diet, there's a reason 'lentils and brown rice' is the stereotype - it's a full protein combo. As noted above, grain + bean work well in concert and that combo is more flexible than it seems - ie the American peanut and butter sandwich (on whole grain bread), an Arabic falafel and hummus (which is basically chickpeas), toss some grain and bean on your salad, etc.

If your straight up vegan, B12 is the biggest danger of lacking - one of my friends would make flavored popcorn that he put brewer's yeast on - an acquired taste, but not bad. Also, everyone seems to recommend taking omega fat supplements these days (veggie or no) and you can use flax seed oil for that (but not whole flax seeds, which you're body doesn't really digest properly).

tristanc

I forgot to the state the obvious - the easiest meal for almost everyone to go veggie - vegan even (in fact, you may be already) is breakfast. Porridge with a handful of sunflower seeds is a complete protein to start. Or any cereal that's a wholegrain with nuts - Muesli obviously, but even tesco would have a good amount of cereals. No Cocoa Puffs

Peanut

tristanc wrote: »

... Also, everyone seems to recommend taking omega fat supplements these days (veggie or no) and you can use flax seed oil for that (but not whole flax seeds, which you're body doesn't really digest properly).

Also for omega oils similar to those in fish, you can use hemp oil (some health food shops), pumpkin seeds or walnuts as well as flax.

Mentalmiss

tristanc wrote: »

and you can use flax seed oil for that (but not whole flax seeds, which you're body doesn't really digest properly).

Flax seeds are great and can be readilly used by the body if you either crush them or soak them and the oils are fresher than using processed oils. I throw 2 desertspoonfulls of them in a food processer daily and just stirr them into a glass of water before my main meal. I get all of my essential fatty acids from this.
Soaked flax seeds get gelatenous and are great for binding when making raw crackers but feel too slimey to eat.

sweet-rasmus

if you are looking for any veg'n oil supplements, 'vertese' are full of omega oils and available in boots. udo's oil poured on your food is also an idea (but easy to forget ). if you are vegan, i would highly recommend taking B12; i myself take veg1 (vegan supplement, available from the vegan society website). they are chewable tablets, one a day and decent price too i can't stress how much vegans should take B12!!! but then again, it is added to the tesco soya milk, for example, so you may already be getting your quota.