Another list, another argument

Mr. Presentable

Pulled from the article below, soccernet.com, 100 Greatest ever players

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=479862&cc=3888

GREATEST EVER PLAYERS
1.Pele (Brazil)
2.Ronaldo (Brazil)
3.Romario (Brazil)
4.Luis Figo (Portugal)
5.Zinedine Zidane (France)
6.Diego Maradona (Argentina)
7.Lothar Matthaus (Germany)
8.Gerd Muller (Germany)
9.Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
10.Cafu (Brazil)
11.Roberto Carlos (Brazil)
12.Marco van Basten (Holland)
13.Michel Platini (France)
14.Rivaldo (Brazil)
15.Paolo Maldini (Italy)
16.Zico (Brazil)
17.Raul (Spain)
18.Ruud Gullit (Holland)
19.Eusebio (Portugal)
20.Ferenc Puskas (Hungary)
21.Johan Cruyff (Holland)
22.Alfredo di Stefano(Argentina)
23.Bobby Charlton (England)
24.Jurgen Klinsmann (Ger)
25.Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)
26.Ali Daei (Iran)
27.Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Ger)
28.Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina)
29.Michael Laudrup (Denmark)
30.Hristo Stoichkov (Bulgaria)
31.Dennis Bergkamp (Holland)
32.Frank Rijkaard (Holland)
33.Thierry Henry (France)
34.Pavel Nedved (Czech Rep)
35.Gheorghe Hagi (Romania)
36.Peter Schmeichel(Denmark)
37.Andrei Shevchenko (Ukraine)
38.Sepp Maier (Germany)
39.Didier Deschamps (France)
40.Lilian Thuram (France)
41.Enzo Francescoli (Uruguay)
42.Hakan Sukur (Turkey)
43.Paolo Rossi (Italy)
44.David Beckham (England)
45.Jean-Pierre Papin (France)
46.Kevin Keegan (England)
47.Marcel Desailly (France)
48.Oliver Kahn (Germany)
49.Alessandro Costacurta (Ita)
50.Clarence Seedorf (Holland)
51.Dino Zoff (Italy)
52.Patrick Kluivert (Holland)
53.Jari Litmanen (Finland)
54.Daniel Passarella (Arg)
55.Bixente Lizarazu (France)
56.Gary Lineker (England)
57.Ronaldhino (Brazil)
58.Sylvain Wiltord (France)
59.Bebeto (Brazil)
60.Alessandro Del Piero (Italy)
61.Davor Suker (Croatia)
62.Ryan Giggs (Wales)
63.David Trezeguet (France)
64.Demetrio Albertini (Italy)
65.Patrick Vieira (France)
66.Jurgen Kohler (Germany)
67.Laurent Blanc (France)
68.Michael Owen (England)
69.Youri Djorkaeff (France)
70.Frank De Boer (Holland)
71.Emilio Butragueno (Spain)
72.Hugo Sanchez (Mexico)
73.Rudi Voller (Germany)
74.Djalma Santos (Brazil)
75.Giacinto Facchetti (Italy)
76.Kanu (Nigeria)
77.Franco Baresi (Italy)
78.Gianni Rivera (Italy)
79.Roberto Baggio (Italy)
80.Oscar Ruggeri (Argentina)
81.Gheorghe Popescu(Romania)
82.Jon D. Tomasson (Denmark)
83.Raymond Kopa (France)
84.Carlos Valderrama (Colombia)
85.Rui Costa (Portugal)
86.Gary Neville (England)
87.Edgar Davids (Holland)
88.Claudio Taffarel (Brazil)
89.Paul Scholes (England)
90.Diego Simeone (Argentina)
91.Bryan Robson (England)
92.Roy Keane (Rep of Ireland)
93.Brian Laudrup (Denmark)
94.Henrik Larsson (Sweden)
95.Fabien Barthez (France)
96.Michael Ballack (Germany)
97.Jan Koller (Czech Republic)
98.Edwin van der Sar (Holland)
99.Robert Pires (France)
100.Johan Neeskens (Holland)



The best team in the world according to the Association of Football
Statisticians*

• GK - Peter Schmeichel

• LB - Roberto Carlos
• CB - Lothar Matthaus
• CB - Franz Beckenbauer
• RB - Cafu

• LM - Johan Cruyff
• CM - Zinedine Zidane
• CM - Michel Platini
• RM - Luis Figo

• ST - Ronaldo
• ST - Pele

*Compiled by taking the highest ranked player relevant to the
available positions in standard 4-4-2.

Xavi6

Zidane only 5th? Well that's a joke to begin with.

Maradona 6th is the next ridiculous placing. Behind Figo, Romario and Fat Ronaldo? Gimme a break.

How Kanu is on the list is beyond, same as that Ali Daei Iranian bloke.

No doubt Kinaldo will have an opinion on Jon Dahl Tomasson's appearance!

redzerdrog

there is so so so many thing wrong with that list but one that sticks out the most is how on earth did gary neville make the list never mind rank higher than both scholes and keane:eek:

Third_Echelon

No George Best.
No Dennis Law.

There are a lot of average enough players in that list... to name but a few

Hakan Sukur (Turkey)
Jari Litmanen (Finland)
Sylvain Wiltord (France)
Kanu (Nigeria)
Jon D. Tomasson (Denmark)
Fabien Barthez (France)

I don't see how law or best didn't get in ahead of them?

Where is Gary Linekar?

redzerdrog

number 56;)

Smegball

Figo above Zidane

Xavi6

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Where is Gary Linekar?

56th

I think they were just trying to include as many countries as possible with some of those listed

Bounty Hunter

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Where is Gary Linekar?

56th

its an okay list but no george best in the top 100 means its certainly not a definitive list.

CountryWise

That list is a load of Poop to be honest, Beckham higher up than the rest of the United players bar Schmeichel.

And no Djemba x2 in the top 10, ridiculous!!!!!!

Mr. Presentable

26.Ali Daei (Iran)

In particular.

Now, he may well be/have been an Iranian Pele and justify his place in the list, but I think I'd have heard of him

And Figo *snorts tea* :eek:

Gillie

Gary Neville?
Roberto Carlos?

Chardee MacDennis

keane only 92 behind Neville, rubbish.

and no Best? Not so sure.

bucks73

Third_Echelon wrote: »

No George Best.
No Dennis Law.

There are a lot of average enough players in that list... to name but a few

Hakan Sukur (Turkey)
Jari Litmanen (Finland)
Sylvain Wiltord (France)
Kanu (Nigeria)
Jon D. Tomasson (Denmark)
Fabien Barthez (France)

I don't see how law or best didn't get in ahead of them?

Where is Gary Linekar?

And dont forget the water carrier himself at no.39. Him before Georgie Best. Joke.

And Roy at 92 behind a fair few average players. Ali Daei at 26...ffs. I would even put him ahead of Giggs.

whatawaster

nipplenuts wrote: »

Pulled from the article below, soccernet.com, 100 Greatest ever players

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=479862&cc=3888

GREATEST EVER PLAYERS
1.Pele (Brazil)
2.Ronaldo (Brazil)
3.Romario (Brazil)
4.Luis Figo (Portugal)
5.Zinedine Zidane (France)
6.Diego Maradona (Argentina)
7.Lothar Matthaus (Germany)
8.Gerd Muller (Germany)
9.Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
10.Cafu (Brazil)
11.Roberto Carlos (Brazil)
12.Marco van Basten (Holland)
13.Michel Platini (France)
14.Rivaldo (Brazil)
15.Paolo Maldini (Italy)
16.Zico (Brazil)
17.Raul (Spain)
18.Ruud Gullit (Holland)
19.Eusebio (Portugal)
20.Ferenc Puskas (Hungary)
21.Johan Cruyff (Holland)
22.Alfredo di Stefano(Argentina)
23.Bobby Charlton (England)
24.Jurgen Klinsmann (Ger)
25.Kenny Dalglish (Scotland)
26.Ali Daei (Iran)
27.Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Ger)
28.Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina)
29.Michael Laudrup (Denmark)
30.Hristo Stoichkov (Bulgaria)
31.Dennis Bergkamp (Holland)
32.Frank Rijkaard (Holland)
33.Thierry Henry (France)
34.Pavel Nedved (Czech Rep)
35.Gheorghe Hagi (Romania)
36.Peter Schmeichel(Denmark)
37.Andrei Shevchenko (Ukraine)
38.Sepp Maier (Germany)
39.Didier Deschamps (France)
40.Lilian Thuram (France)
41.Enzo Francescoli (Uruguay)
42.Hakan Sukur (Turkey)
43.Paolo Rossi (Italy)
44.David Beckham (England)
45.Jean-Pierre Papin (France)
46.Kevin Keegan (England)
47.Marcel Desailly (France)
48.Oliver Kahn (Germany)
49.Alessandro Costacurta (Ita)
50.Clarence Seedorf (Holland)
51.Dino Zoff (Italy)
52.Patrick Kluivert (Holland)
53.Jari Litmanen (Finland)
54.Daniel Passarella (Arg)
55.Bixente Lizarazu (France)
56.Gary Lineker (England)
57.Ronaldhino (Brazil)
58.Sylvain Wiltord (France)
59.Bebeto (Brazil)
60.Alessandro Del Piero (Italy)
61.Davor Suker (Croatia)
62.Ryan Giggs (Wales)
63.David Trezeguet (France)
64.Demetrio Albertini (Italy)
65.Patrick Vieira (France)
66.Jurgen Kohler (Germany)
67.Laurent Blanc (France)
68.Michael Owen (England)
69.Youri Djorkaeff (France)
70.Frank De Boer (Holland)
71.Emilio Butragueno (Spain)
72.Hugo Sanchez (Mexico)
73.Rudi Voller (Germany)
74.Djalma Santos (Brazil)
75.Giacinto Facchetti (Italy)
76.Kanu (Nigeria)
77.Franco Baresi (Italy)
78.Gianni Rivera (Italy)
79.Roberto Baggio (Italy)
80.Oscar Ruggeri (Argentina)
81.Gheorghe Popescu(Romania)
82.Jon D. Tomasson (Denmark)
83.Raymond Kopa (France)
84.Carlos Valderrama (Colombia)
85.Rui Costa (Portugal)
86.Gary Neville (England)
87.Edgar Davids (Holland)
88.Claudio Taffarel (Brazil)
89.Paul Scholes (England)
90.Diego Simeone (Argentina)
91.Bryan Robson (England)
92.Roy Keane (Rep of Ireland)
93.Brian Laudrup (Denmark)
94.Henrik Larsson (Sweden)
95.Fabien Barthez (France)
96.Michael Ballack (Germany)
97.Jan Koller (Czech Republic)
98.Edwin van der Sar (Holland)
99.Robert Pires (France)
100.Johan Neeskens (Holland)



The best team in the world according to the Association of Football
Statisticians*

• GK - Peter Schmeichel

• LB - Roberto Carlos
• CB - Lothar Matthaus
• CB - Franz Beckenbauer
• RB - Cafu

• LM - Johan Cruyff
• CM - Zinedine Zidane
• CM - Michel Platini
• RM - Luis Figo

• ST - Ronaldo
• ST - Pele

*Compiled by taking the highest ranked player relevant to the
available positions in standard 4-4-2.

Countless things wrong with that list.

Maradona at 6 is a joke.
Figo in the top 20, let alone top 5 is an even bigger joke.
Roberto Carlos is, and always has been awful. This list has zero credibility.
Other players ridiculously high include Rivaldo, Raul, Nedved, Seedorf, kanu.
It's a hilarious list actually. Who'd have though statisticians would have such a sense of humour.

whatawaster

Ha, I didn't spot Tomasson or Wiltord. Unbelievable.

Third_Echelon

redzerdrog wrote: »

number 56;)

Doh!

DerKaiser

I know for a fact for a lot of people Maradona is top of that list, FIFA just don't like him cause he was a coke head But to be placed where he is, blasphemy, and - too bloody right! No George Best?????????????

Melion

About right for roy keane anyway

eirebhoy

whatawaster wrote: »

Other players ridiculously high include Rivaldo, Raul, Nedved, Seedorf, kanu.

Why Nedved?

Mr. Presentable

DerKaiser wrote: »

I know for a fact for a lot of people Maradona is top of that list, FIFA just don't like him cause he was a coke head But to be placed where he is, blasphemy, and - too bloody right! No George Best?????????????

Yeah but the list has nothing to do with FIFA - it was done by a bunch of statisticians. If you check the article referred you'll see it is based on player stats akin to the OPTA index, that's why Best is not on it and Neville is - Best won a lot less than Neville.

Chardee MacDennis

or seedorf, quality players the both of them.

event

aye, its got to do with international games played and goals scored

its not even worth debating

Xavi6

event wrote: »

aye, its got to do with international games played and goals scored

its not even worth debating

Then should the likes of Tony Meola not be on it? He was the USA keeper for years and years, has 100 caps, played in Italia 90, USA 94 and was in the squad for Japan Korea 02. Surely that'd meet the criteria?

Or Tomas Ravelli who played 143 times for Sweden.

tdv

15.Maldini

77.Baresi

Baresi is better than Maldini & should be in the top 5. He's also below Costacurta who is at 49.

whatawaster

eirebhoy wrote: »

Why Nedved?

Simply, because, fantastic player though he was, he wasn't that good. Certainly shouldn't be ahead of other midfielders like Keane or Scholes.

kryogen

can we delete this thread? its surely a piss take? i almost wet myself i laughed so hard

whatawaster

And Madini should be on the best XI at left back. No question.

Guy:Incognito

Xavi6 wrote: »

Then should the likes of Tony Meola not be on it? He was the USA keeper for years and years, has 100 caps, played in Italia 90, USA 94 and was in the squad for Japan Korea 02. Surely that'd meet the criteria?

Or Tomas Ravelli who played 143 times for Sweden.

No, because they used a very simplistic view to make the stats.

Ali Daie got in because he scored 109 goals in 140 games or some such. They dotn factor in that he played teams that probably dotn even play football.

For goalkeepers and defenders they used a games to clean sheets ratio, which again is pointless.

MrPillowTalk

I was going to write a big piece tearing it to shreds but it would just take too long, Ill summarise,

Zidane not in the top 3 LOL

Jean Pierre Papin there at all LOL

Keane at 92 LOL

George Best not in the list let alone the top ten LOL

Has to be the most ridiculous list yet, was it actually compiled by someone who watches football or was it simply the first 100 names that came up on google when searching for footballers.

Guy:Incognito

Oh and one other thing, the cover of the book this is traken from has 3 or 4 players on it, one of which is George Best,:)

kinaldo

Xavi6 wrote: »

No doubt Kinaldo will have an opinion on Jon Dahl Tomasson's appearance!

Let's just say I lol'd. It's by far the most ridiculous list of greatest ever footballers EVER!

Pepe LeFrits

I think this list is the best.

Football’s Top Fives

Goalkeepers
1 Gianluigi Buffon (Juventus, Italy)
2 Petr Cech (Chelsea, Czech Republic)
3 Artur Boruc (Glasgow Celtic, Poland)
4 Iker Casillas (Real Madrid, Spain)
5 Edwin van der Sar (Man United, Netherlands)

Full-Back
1 Gianluca Zambrotta (Barcelona, Italy)
2 Philip Lahm (Bayern Munich, Germany)
3 Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid, Spain)
3 Daniel Alves (Sevilla, Brazil)
4 Willy Sagnol (Bayern Munich, France)

Centre-half, No 6
1 Ricardo Carvalho (Chelsea, Portugal)
2 Alessandro Nesta (Milan, Italy)
3 John Terry (Chelsea, England)
4 Fabio Cannavaro (Real Madrid, Italy)
5 Nemanja Vidic (Man United, Serbia)

Libero, No 5
1 Rio Ferdinand (Man United, England)
2 Lucio (Bayern Munich, Brazil)
3 William Gallas (Arsenal, France)
4 Kolo Toure (Arsenal, Ivory Coast)
5 Christian Chivu (Inter Milan, Romania)

Defensive Midfielder
1 Esteban Cambiasso (Inter Milan, Argentina)
2 Javier Mascherano (Liverpool, Argentina)
3 Gennaro Gattuso (Milan, Italy)
4 Torsten Frings (Werder Bremen, Germany)
5 Mark van Bommel (Bayern Munich, Netherlands)

Deep-lying Playmaker
1 Andrea Pirlo (Milan, Italy)
2 Xavi Hernandez (Barcelona, Spain)
3 Paul Scholes (Man United, England)
4 Xabi Alonso (Liverpool, Spain)
5 Fernando Gago (Real Madrid, Argentina)

Box-to-Box Midfielder
1 Cesc Fabregas (Arsenal, Spain)
2 Michael Essien (Chelsea, Ghana)
3 Andres Iniesta (Barcelona, Spain)
4 Daniele De Rossi (Roma, Italy)
5 Tiago Mendes (Juventus, Portugal)

Midfield Playmaker
1 Rafael van der Vaart (Hamburg, Netherlands)
2 Diego (Werder Bremen, Brazil)
3 Deco (Barcelona, Portugal)
4 Juan Roman Riquelme (Boca Juniors, Argentina)
5 Elano (Man City, Brazil)

Attacking Midfielder
1 Kaka (Milan, Brazil)
2 Steven Gerrard (Liverpool, England)
3 Clarence Seedorf (Milan, Netherlands)
4 Aliaksandr Hleb (Arsenal, Belarus)
5 Wesley Sneijder (Real Madrid, Netherlands)

Winger/Wing-Forward
1 Lionel Messi (Barcelona, Argentina)
2 Ronaldinho (Barcelona, Brazil)
3 Cristiano Ronaldo (Man United, Portugal)
4 Franck Ribery (Bayern Munich, France)
5 Robin van Persie (Arsenal, Netherlands)

Second Striker, No 10
1 Francesco Totti (Roma, Italy)
2 Wayne Rooney (Man United, England)
3 Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham, Bulgaria)
4 Goran Pandev (Lazio, Macedonia)
5 Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid, Argentina)

Centre Forward
1 Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Inter Milan, Sweden)
2 Didier Drogba (Chelsea, Ivory Coast)
3 Samuel Eto'o (Barcelona, Cameroon)
4 Ruud Van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid, Netherlands)
5 Frederic Kanoute (Sevilla, Mali)

eirebhoy

Given is better than Boruc anyway. I get slated for saying that on Celtic forums but there's no doubt in my mind. Overall though it's a very good list. I love the way they distinguish between the types of centre halves.

Xavi6

A City player made the list! Unbelievable!

A pretty fair list though I'd have one or two positional changes i.e. Boruc out altogether, Rio not number 1 in his category and Xavi above Pirlo but generally it's good.

meditraitor

nipplenuts wrote: »

Pulled from the article below, soccernet.com, 100 Greatest ever players

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=479862&cc=3888

GREATEST EVER PLAYERS

86.Gary Neville (England)
.

Thanks for posting that dude, the best laugh I have had in ages.

Third_Echelon

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I think this list is the best.

Football’s Top Fives

<snip>

Pepe.... There was football before 2007 you know?

eirebhoy

It's also interesting that 6 of the 10 centre halves in that list play for Man Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea. Chelsea have two organisers at the back, Arsenal have two footballing centre backs and Utd have one of each.

Mr Alan

Thats a pretty excellent list, about the best i've seen on here.
It is a bit too "in the moment" though. Not sure if Elano should be in there tbh, Boruc over Reina? I dont get, Boruc makes more massive mistakes and with everything else they are fairly equal from wat i've seen of em both.

Apart from that, though, quality list, no room for Carragher

eirebhoy

Mr Alan wrote: »

It is a bit too "in the moment" though. Not sure if Elano should be in there tbh, Boruc over Reina? I dont get, Boruc makes more massive mistakes and with everything else they are fairly equal from wat i've seen of em both.

Boruc is prone to mistakes but he has maybe made 4 or 5 big mistakes in his Celtic career so far. 2 of them were in the 1 match against Hibs which tells you a bit about his confidence. Thankfully that doesn't carry itself over to next match. In terms of shot stopping though there's no better than Boruc imo.

I haven't seen enough of Reina recently but I just think of him as someone who'll punch the ball rather than catch it. I can't stand those keepers.

Mr Alan

Well, by coincidence, i must have watched every Celtic game he ever made a mistake in if thats the case! Pretty sure ya might be being a little generous there EB, seems to make more mistakes than 5 in a two years!

eirebhoy

Well, he has been at fault for maybe 5 goals in his Celtic career that I can think of. There's no way Reina is any less prone. Given, Cech and Buffon maybe make 1 mistake a season. That's about it.

Pepe LeFrits

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Pepe.... There was football before 2007 you know?

It doesn't really have much baring on a current list though does it?

Third_Echelon

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

It doesn't really have much baring on a current list though does it?

Your list quoted the top 5 players in every position. They are all current or recent players. My point being that there are a lot more fitting candidates for some of the awards that you have dished out to players like Boruc, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Elano etc.. A lot of average players there.

Approximately 1/3 of players on the list from the article are still playing football...

Jazzy

zidane and maradonna should be in the top 3
puskas should be top 10
carlos better then maldini ? Are you having a laugh?
rivaldo lower
becks above linekar? see above link
Kluivert ?
del piero and giggs should be higher
Neville higher than keane ?

plenty more but i dont have all day

estebancambias

Hahaha look at Ballack.

GuanYin

screw the rest, where is McGrath.

When former players like Eusabio seek out McGrath for his shirt at a game, that's got to say something.

He's certainly better than alot of the defenders on that list. Neville for one.

DerKaiser

No McGrath, no Zola, this list is a load of ****e!

Pepe LeFrits

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Your list quoted the top 5 players in every position. They are all current or recent players.

Eh, that's the point, it's not an all time list. It's a current list.

My point being that there are a lot more fitting candidates for some of the awards that you have dished out to players like Boruc, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Elano etc.. A lot of average players there.

Point them out so.

Jazzy

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Eh, that's the point, it's not an all time list. It's a current list.

yeah, Di Stefano is playing for Valhalla FC while Puskas is slotting in goals still for Hades-upon-Styx

Mr Alan

Jazzy: pretty sure that Pepe is talking about a different list, he posted up a second (better) one on page two of this thread- so your comic genius is wasted this time!

Shouldnt you be off somewhere slating Steven Gerrard?

Seaneh

tdv wrote: »

15.Maldini

77.Baresi

Baresi is better than Maldini & should be in the top 5. He's also below Costacurta who is at 49.

Paolo Maldini is the best defender of all time, by stats, ability and apparences of club and country.

Franco is a legend but Paolo is a God amongst men!