Death grip- Inside prowrestling

Vince135792003

There was a documentary on CNN last night looking at basically the history of the wrestling industry as well as the story of Chris Benoit. It was really excellent. If/when a video appears on youtube I'll post it but here's a recap of the key points from wrestling-edge.com:

Death Grip: Inside Pro Wrestling (Recap)

The one-hour documentary of sorts opens with the narrator talking about Chris Benoit. The murder, how he had the body of an Adonis, and how he was spinning into depression. We're introduced to Chris' father, Michael and his documentation that proves Chris' downfall. We see the journal Chris kept, and Michael talks about how the entries are letters to Eddie after he passed. Michael calls it the diary of Chris going mad.

They cut to shots of Chris, his wife Nancy and son, with shots of the taped off house mixed in. The narrator goes over some facts of the murder, back to Michael Benoit saying he feels responsibility, because he let his son chase his dream.

Now we get to see shots of WWE fans attending an event, while excited and saying Mark Henry sucks. The host mentions Raw and Smackdown are ratings giants. Also that WWE's PPV's brought in hundreds of millions in revenue each year.

A Dr. Pinkard says the amount of deaths in wrestling alarmed him. According to him one- fifth of those that have died under the age of 50, were from drug related causes. Chris Kanyon is now shown, and he admits to attempting suicide on September 14th, 2000.

The narrator mentions how the Benoit incident caught the attention of congress, and now it's a sit down moment with Vince McMahon, alongside Linda. Vince says, "they had nothing to do with it. How did we know he'd turn into a monster?"

Commercial.

When they come back they make mention of WWE's special tribute to Chris on Raw the night he had passed. Somewhat shoddy reporting here, as they say that night WWE knew nothing of what happened until the next day, when reports of what actually took place were coming out as Raw was airing. Than they show Vince taking back, but not taking back the tribute from his message the next night on ECW.

Now the Patriot, Del Wilkes, is talking about his steroid abuse and Vince, saying he "liked the big guys."

A man who used to work for WWE in the early 90's, who wants to remain anonymous is than interviewed. He really wanted to hide his identity, as he was completely shadowed, wearing a hood over his head, plus a hat, and had the voice altering. Let the speculation begin. He mentioned how Vince changed the business, before him the wrestlers looked like your uncle, and now they were huge. This is when the whispers of steroid abuse began.

They move to 1994 and the McMahon trial. They mention Hulk Hogan as the key witness, and him admitting he did steroids, and Vince did as well. Hulk estimated that 80% of the WWF wrestlers were on the juice. McMahon was acquitted though, but he did admit to steroid abuse, and than launching WWE's first attempt at a wellness policy.

Now the mention of the rise of Ted Turner's WCW. They talk to Bischoff of who basically just explains that from '96 to the middle of '98 they were on top. After that McMahon took back over, eventually purchased WCW and become the "Lord of all wrestling."

Back to the sit down with Vince and Linda, the interviewer asks if Vince likes big guys. Vince wiggles around the question, and than claims the WWE roster is lighter than ever.

They cut to clips of Batista and Cena.

Irv Muchnik is than questioned on his thoughts. He said, "wrestlers copy other wrestlers." He says theirs only so many top spots available, and those are the only guys really making enough money.

Now Jericho says wrestling has a "stereotypical image" of being all big huge guys. That smaller guys have made it to the top before.

Commercial.

Now it's back to Michael Benoit, showing pictures of Chris at 15 years old. He talks about how Chris always lifted weights and since 13 he wanted to be a wrestler. Michael talks about how he got Chris a weight set for Christmas and that looking back it was the biggest mistake he ever made.

Than they talk about Chris' hero the Dynamite Kid. Michael Benoit than mentions letting Chris idolize him may have been an even bigger mistake.

They than interview the ex-wife of Dynamite, who was abused by him, and she blames the steroids. She talks about his use, and how the bigger he got, the more fame that came with it. Than how his steroid abuse lead to injuries, which lead to painkillers and alcohol. She tells a story of Dynamite dragging her by the hair, and putting a gun to her head. She said she didn't know how to escape it all, and actually was going to kill her kids, and herself. The only reason she couldn't bring herself to do it is, because she couldn't be sure they'd all die. She actually never told her children this, but did the night before the interview, knowing they'd see her admit it on this show. She told the interviewer that they understood.

Now an interview with the Dynamite Kid who is now confined to a wheelchair, living in public housing, complete with a pin literally sticking out of his toe. He blames wrestling for his current state of health. He talks about a drug overdose saving his life, because it led doctors to finding he had an enlarged heart from the steroid abuse. The doctors told him he'd die if he didn't stop, so he did. He says McMahon encouraged guys to be bigger. In an odd moment of delusion, Dynamite says he wasn't violent, but admitted to putting a shotgun to his ex-wife's chin. He also admitted that steroids could make you aggressive, but not kill your wife or kid.

Commercial.

Now they turn the attention to concussions, with clips of the news conference from September of Benoit's brain tissue results. The announcement of Benoit having the brain of an elderly Alzheimer's patient, from multiple undiagnosed concussions, and that being enough to explain Benoit's behavior.

Chris Kanyon talks about how Benoit would take abuse out of his love for the show.

They play several clips of Benoit doing the flying head-butt.

The sit down with McMahon reemerges, with Vince saying they haven't studied the reports. He mentions they have cut back on chair shots to the head. Vince says he can't help what accidents happen in the ring. He than questions the facts of the report, and questioning him on these things, after the fact. Vince doesn't think concussions did this and wonders if Benoit had the brain of an 85-year-old with dementia, how did he function and get on an airplane?


Now the focus turns back to Eddie Guerrero's death, and the installment of a new wellness policy. Vince says the last time they had a policy they couldn't afford it, but now they can. He recreated it, because he wanted to, not because of outside pressure.

Dr. Waddler, who was a witness for the prosecution during the '94 trail of McMahon is convinced wrestlers are still on the steroids and calls their current policy a joke.

A Dr. Tygert, who runs the testing for the Olympics also considers it a joke, mentioning the loophole that if you have prescription for the stuff it's ok.

They than talk to Dr Black, who is involved with WWE's current policy and talks about the risk of getting involved if WWE wasn't serious. He claims Vince is serious, and said they're working on making the wrestlers healthier.

Super Anonymous man from earlier says after the first policy, when the guys got smaller, the business suffered.

Now the focus turns to CM Punk and his straightedge lifestyle. The host says he stands out in this business because of it, and asks Punk if he thinks that's why he's a champion? CM Punk basically admits he thinks he's where he is in WWE now, because of his gimmick.

Now John Cena is asked about taking steroids. He actually went on a going nowhere rambling expedition, than said, "I can't say I never did them, but you can never prove I did."

Back to Vince, who is asked if he is confident of WWE being clean now. Vince says no company or organization can say there are 100% positive they are completely clean.

They mentioned Vince's institution of paid rehab to former employees and now tighter testing.

Vince is asked if it's hard to hear about wrestlers dying young and he says he's not responsible for the actions someone takes in their life.

They close with Michael Benoit saying it's too late for Chris, but theirs time to do something for the future.

gimmick

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=adrift923

Gonna watch this when I get home. Though Ill probably try find a torrent, as I hate watching things on Youtube.

krudler

nice sidestep of the steroid question by Cena "I can't say that i havent but you'll never prove that I have"

Vince135792003

krudler wrote: »

nice sidestep of the steroid question by Cena "I can't say that i havent but you'll never prove that I have"

I hope you were being sarcastic.

Minto

Just watched it and it was a very good watch. Cena came of as an ass though.

Vince135792003

Another interesting bit was when Vince touted how he suspended 10 wrestlers in September. The interview pointed out to him that it wasn't him or his policy that caught them and that it was someone else.

fatal

Il check this out when I get home.Hopefully its not just anoter pro wrestling bashing documentary which blames everything on steroids

jeffk

gimmick wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=adrift923

Gonna watch this when I get home. Though Ill probably try find a torrent, as I hate watching things on Youtube.

Gimmik can you pm or post the link to the torrent if you get it please?
Thanks

Fozzy

Just watched it. Punk is the only guy who comes off looking good, although they pushed the idea that he was doing well in WWE simply because of his drug-free image. There's more to it than that obviously

I don't know what Cena was at. He's said in previous interviews that he hasn't used steroids and that he's never been pushed to use them. I understand that he gets a lot of speculation about whether he's using them, but if he doesn't then he could hardly have chosen a worse way to try to say it

At least Vince didn't choose to react to the topic of the Sports Legacy Institute's findings like his lawyer did, by saying that they're "not going to dignify that crap"

Strange seeing Dynamite

Mr.Nice Guy

I just watched it too and it's depressing as f*ck. I fast-forwarded some bits as it was getting to be disturbing viewing. The one thing I got out of this was, why would anyone want to be involved in this business as a wrestler?

On Cena's comments, they were seriously f*cking stupid. I really hope he just got his wording wrong as it came across like "Yes I have taken them but I can't 'fess up to that and you can't prove it anyway".

I was disappointed at Vince's attitude towards the concussion findings. They've yet to study the findings? Come on.

CM Punk came off alright but I thought that was mainly because everybody else came off looking horrible!

Dynamite Kid - so sad in so many ways.

Anyone have any idea as to who the anoymous guy was? I read some people saying it was Hogan but that thought didn't cross my mind at all.

In closing I wouldn't recommend watching this documentary as it's way too depressing.

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

In closing I wouldn't recommend watching this documentary as it's way too depressing.

I know what you mean. It's not fun viewing at all but I still think it's kinda must see tv. It painted a picture of what wrestling has been like over the last 15 years or so and it is not good.

I feel so sorry for Michael Benoit. He comes across as such a decent guy and looks destroyed by the whole thing.

I thought Vince and Linda looked tired and old throughout the whole thing.

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I was disappointed at Vince's attitude towards the concussion findings. They've yet to study the findings? Come on.

Apparently they haven't been made public. That's why McDevitt called them crap. And it is true that no one outside of the SLI has studied them independently as far as I've heard

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Anyone have any idea as to who the anoymous guy was? I read some people saying it was Hogan but that thought didn't cross my mind at all.

I actually played around with the sound on my computer and got the voice clear, I was just curious if I'd recognise it. Definitely not Hogan, the voice didn't ring any bells with me

Minto

Fozzy wrote: »

I actually played around with the sound on my computer and got the voice clear, I was just curious if I'd recognise it. Definitely not Hogan, the voice didn't ring any bells with me

I thought it was Hogan at first, but he's not that stupid. Angle springs to mind, maybe even Bret Hart. Although, it could be Triple H for all we know! I doubt we ever will know his identity.

ShawnRaven

Stick the sound file on rapidshare so we can give it a go
VR!

Fozzy

I'm already on it. It's an American accent, couldn't be Bret

gimmick

Fairly certain its Nash.

This is why I hate youtube. Part 3 of 6 wont bloody load. All the rest are ready to go ffs.

H Christ 6 of 6 wont go either. Pain in the hole.

Fozzy

http://rapidshare.com/files/68382118/Mr_Anonymous.mp3

ShawnRaven

That actually sounds like Greg Gagne. I was watching the AWA DVD the other day, he has the same long pauses between the words at the end of the sentences that Gagne does.

oops, WWE in the early 90s? Sh*t... i f*cked up

I'm gonna play with the pitch of this, i have a feeling it could also be Cornette
VR!

fatal

If someone wants to remain annonymous CNN definitely have the technology to distort the voice

Fozzy

fatal wrote: »

If someone wants to remain annonymous CNN definitely have the technology to distort the voice

I'd say so, but you're still going to get something that sounds similar

I forgot to mention this yesterday, but this was probably the best mainstream program done on wrestling that I can remember. They didn't set out to just bury WWE, but they do deserve criticism over their Wellness Policy. To track down the Dynamite Kid and get him to talk on camera is a bit of an achievement too. CNN did their research and there wasn't any point during the show where I had to shake my head at a lie that was said, which often happens on any show like this

Gerard.C

jeffk wrote: »

Gimmik can you pm or post the link to the torrent if you get it please?
Thanks

.....and could you then send it to me please? Bloody place here has yoube blocked!!!

Vince135792003

I think the mystery man is a bit of a non issue. Everything he said was a cliche with nothing of any really note said.

gimmick

Could not find a torrent for it, and even if I did, I couldn't post it here as its against Boards rules I think.

Fozzy

I was expecting this, WWE have put the unedited video of Cena's interview on their website here: http://www.wwe.com/inside/cenaoncnn/ Cena says "absolutely not" when initially asked whether he ever took steroids. I think he was trying to say that there's a lot of people who aren't going to believe him anyway, but that those people have no way of proving anything. Real bad way for him to say it though

WWE's paragraph about CNN stooping to new lows is a bit hard to take, all news programs do the exact same thing. If anyone's read Mick Foley's second book you'd know all about the sort of thing that can happen. If Cena hadn't put it so strangely then they'd have had nothing to show to make him look bad

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote: »

WWE's paragraph about CNN stooping to new lows is a bit hard to take, all news programs do the exact same thing.

And wrestling companies. WWE continuously manipulated the truth during the whole Benoit situation.

shinzon

The minute i saw cenas comment i thought that it was very badly worded, for all his faults cena is accomplished on the mike in interviews, for him to basically say to a reporter try and find out if ive taken steroids in so many words must have had the cnn guys jumping up and down and ofc there going to edit it the way they did

It seems to me that wwe are making blunder after blunder and are not learning from the myriad of ****ups there wrestlers are making in the light of the benoit tragedy and steroids in wrestling

And for them to then come out with an unedited video of what cena actually said is hypocritical to say the least, cena gave CNN the soundbite, no matter what way it was edited thats what they were going to run with

cena only has himself to blame

Shin

fatal

Cena has always denied that he has used steroids.He has said in the past that he has been accused of using them so many times that he lets people make their own decisions as to whether or not he has/hasnt.
However for this interview I think that he should have answered the question and said "No" if he hadn't even used them.The media obviously wants to jump on opportunities like these and for someone like John cena-the face of WWE over the last few years, not answer with a yes or not only adds to most peoples opinions on wrestling

fatal

shinzon wrote: »

The minute i saw cenas comment i thought that it was very badly worded, for all his faults cena is accomplished on the mike in interviews, for him to basically say to a reporter try and find out if ive taken steroids in so many words must have had the cnn guys jumping up and down and ofc there going to edit it the way they did

It seems to me that wwe are making blunder after blunder and are not learning from the myriad of ****ups there wrestlers are making in the light of the benoit tragedy and steroids in wrestling

And for them to then come out with an unedited video of what cena actually said is hypocritical to say the least, cena gave CNN the soundbite, no matter what way it was edited thats what they were going to run with

cena only has himself to blame

Shin

Every interview can be editted in that kind of a way.They can easily take a word from each sentence and make up a statement that he never made.
I think that John cenas mistake in this interview was to not directly answer the question with a "yes" or "no" and ten further elaborate. If you sit on the fence with thing like these,people(especially newsreporters) always have the tendency to go with what they want to hear

Fozzy

fatal wrote: »

Cena has always denied that he has used steroids.He has said in the past that he has been accused of using them so many times that he lets people make their own decisions as to whether or not he has/hasnt.
However for this interview I think that he should have answered the question and said "No" if he hadn't even used them.The media obviously wants to jump on opportunities like these and for someone like John cena-the face of WWE over the last few years, not answer with a yes or not only adds to most peoples opinions on wrestling

When he was asked if he'd ever used steroids, he said "absolutely not", which is the same as saying "no". CNN didn't air that part of the interview though, just the part after Cena had talked about how a lot of people these days don't believe that a top athlete has achieved their position without steroids, and he can't change their opinions

fatal

Fozzy wrote: »

When he was asked if he'd ever used steroids, he said "absolutely not", which is the same as saying "no". CNN didn't air that part of the interview though, just the part after Cena had talked about how a lot of people these days don't believe that a top athlete has achieved their position without steroids, and he can't change their opinions

apologies.I havent seen the full interview so I didnt know that he had said that.The statement about not being able to prove that he had ever taken them was CNN wanted to hear and when they did, they jumped onto the bandwagon

rossie1977

the american media playing with words so as to get a false message across to its gullible viewers, WHAT, shock, horror

Fozzy

I'd be interested to see if CNN will respond to this in any way. It's obviously not the first time they've ever done it, but you don't usually hear about famous people showing proof that they were misquoted or quoted out of context

Dean820

Edit: Oops, never saw this second page. Ignore the below.

WWE has gone on the offense against CNN for how they portrayed John Cena during their wrestling documentary that aired Wednesday night. In the documentary, when asked if he had taken steroids, Cena was shown saying "I can't tell you I haven't, but you'll never be able to prove that I have."

WWE.com has put up the unedited video footage of CNN's interview with CNN which clearly shows that CNN completely used that quote out of context. In the unedited footage, when CNN asks Cena if he has used steroids, his answer is "absolutely not." The answer CNN used came a bit later after Cena went into an explanation. He even says that he can take drug tests, and will pass them, but people will still accuse him of taking steroids. He then said that people will believe what they want, and will think he has done steroids, but that they wouldn't be able to prove that he has.

Here is what WWE.com posted.

Cena: Steroids? "Absolutely not"
In a country in which the news media is highly suspect, and the quality of unbiased reporting has been thrown into the trash can, CNN has stooped to new depths. Notwithstanding the fairness, or lack therein, of CNN's recent piece entitled "Death Grip: Inside Pro Wrestling," perhaps the best example of how CNN misrepresents and unfairly presents their biased, if not illegal, point of view is the comparison of WWE's unedited video above to CNN's edited version. CNN's depiction of John Cena as it relates to steroids is not only professionally and morally wrong, but damaging to his character.

The edited and unedited versions of the interview are available on wwe.com

Double C

Thought the mystery guy was Jessie Ventura when I saw it first, being a governor he would have a reason to hide his identity, but after hearing Fozzy's mp3 I don't think it is anymore. VR could be right with Greg Gagne, but why would he want to stay anonymous?

It's a pretty bleak protrayal alright but its a pretty dark and nasty business. It was horrible to see Dynamite Kid as he is, and that stuff with his wife was pretty hard to watch. Strange for CNN to use Cena's quote out of context, knowing that WWE weren't going to take it lying down.

Tangent: Can everyone watch the videos on WWE.com? I can't. It shows the media player page and all that but the play button doesn't work. It's hardly cos I use Firefox? I'd appreciate some help with this!

Roar

the edited and unedited cena clips are up on wwe.com

http://www.wwe.com/inside/cenaoncnn/

ec18

Looks like the point of this is to make WWE as bad as possible........I thought that it sounded like Hulk Hogan

Vince135792003

ec18 wrote: »

Looks like the point of this is to make WWE as bad as possible........I thought that it sounded like Hulk Hogan

I don't think so. It tried to be balanced in that it talked about the heart tests they run for wrestlers and how they have offered substance abuse support for past employees.

ec18

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I don't think so. It tried to be balanced in that it talked about the heart tests they run for wrestlers and how they have offered substance abuse support for past employees.

Then they brought in the expert saying that the wwe program was useless

Vince135792003

ec18 wrote: »

Then they brought in the expert saying that the wwe program was useless

And it kinda is. It's got alot of holes in it.

And again after they brought in doctors criticising it, they allowed Dr. Black (head of the programe) to have his say. I'm not saying it was 100% balanced. The Cena quote taken out of context proves that.

I do think though they genuinely wanted it to be balanced. You could tell by how they did it.

Fozzy

Double C wrote: »

Tangent: Can everyone watch the videos on WWE.com? I can't. It shows the media player page and all that but the play button doesn't work. It's hardly cos I use Firefox? I'd appreciate some help with this!

I used to have a problem with that, still happens with older videos, but the new ones all usually work for me. Sometimes there's a way to get the video file name from the source code and then copy and paste it into some media player, I remember doing that for the Hall of Fame

Try it with this: http://vmsvideo.wwe.com/vms/wm/videos/2007/november8-14/99c6213ecdc38a621b7c397c33562096.wmv and you should see Cena's unedited interview

Fozzy

Figure Four Online reports:

We have been told that in the replay of the CNN special that airs tonight at 8:00 PM EST, the John Cena soundbyte has been edited. He now states that he has never used steroids ("Absolutely not"), and then adds that nobody will believe him no matter what he says.

fatal

That just makes CNN look bad now

krudler

you mean a news channel took a quote out of context to make you hear what they wanted you to? say it aint so!

fatal

krudler wrote: »

you mean a news channel took a quote out of context to make you hear what they wanted you to? say it aint so!

It's very common for such news channels to do that but it isnt common for them to repeat the same programme again a few days later and change part of the programme.Obviously they felt the need to change it because of something or other-be it WWE.com or people contacting CNN about it

Fozzy

From WWE.com:

WWE received the following statement last night at 10:00 pm EST from CNN's Director of Public Relations, Jennifer Dargan:

"CNN felt that Mr. Cena's statement in the interview:
"My answer to that question 'have you ever used steroids' is -- the only thing I can say -- I can't tell you that I haven't, but you'll never be able to prove that I have"
was a more expansive and complete answer -- and that's why we used it in the first run of the program. And we stand by that decision. But, we added the other quote on the Sunday replay where Mr. Cena first denied using steroids. We did this because of his complaint and the attention it received so that viewers could see how he said it both times."

Fair play for apologising to WWE, they could have easily carried on without any major issue. If that is their honest explanation, then I can understand it in a way after listening to what Lance Storm had to say on Wrestling Observer Live this week