Question About applying Hand-Brake

funktastic

I passed my test a year and a half ago but never really found a reliable answer to this question from two different driving instructors. One told me to allow the rasping noise when applying the hand-brake as the silent method would cause damage to the cable. another told me to apply it silently, holding the ratchet down, to prevent eventual hand-brake failure. I also read in an old book to apply the hand-brake silently.

Which is the correct method? I'm assuming silently? Or does it matter on newer cars?

Thanks.

L1011

Silently is what I've always done and been told - the ratchet is far more costly to replace than the cable for a start and I don't think holding the button down does *anything* to the cable anyway (can't think the process through fully right now, brain no workey after 6pm...)

Owen

Silently. It's mechanically more sympathetic.

Jimbo

I dont think either does damage.
What ever suits Id say...

Amtmann

I'm having an on-going debate about this with a guy in my house.

He says silently, I say yank it up. I did use the silent method for around a month, and found that my handbrake was unreliable (as in slightly unresponsive) when I did that. I then asked a mechanic friend and he confirmed that you 'yank it up'. The performence of my handbrake is now very good.

Go figure.

On another note, suppose your foot brakes failed, and you needed to stop your car with the handbrake, what is the correct procedure?

Owen

Furet wrote: »

On another note, suppose your foot brakes failed, and you needed to stop your car with the handbrake, what is the correct procedure?

Depends on the speed, if it's a slow speed, I'll keep the button pressed on the handbrake using my arm to slow the vehicle as quickly as possible without locking up the rear. If it's high speed, I'll work down through the gears, matching throttle to engine speed when downshifting to avoid clutch burn, let the engine use itself as a brake, and then use the slow speed method.

Amtmann

ned78 wrote: »

Depends on the speed, if it's a slow speed, I'll keep the button pressed on the handbrake using my arm to slow the vehicle as quickly as possible without locking up the rear. If it's high speed, I'll work down through the gears, matching throttle to engine speed when downshifting to avoid clutch burn, let the engine use itself as a brake, and then use the slow speed method.

Thanks very much, but I'm not well versed on techno-speak, and I'm not mechanically minded. Could you explain the highlighted bit again in slightly simpler terminology (sorry, I feel kind of stupid over this).

Owen

Furet wrote: »

Thanks very much, but I'm not well versed on techno-speak, and I'm not mechanically minded. Could you explain the highlighted bit again in slightly simpler terminology (sorry, I feel kind of stupid over this).

You know if you go from 5th gear to 4rd gear when driving, the front of the car dips like you've slammed on the brakes, and the engine roars? Thats because the engine wasn't revving fast enough for the speed. Solution? Clutch in, change gear down, keep the clutch in, and rev the accelerator until it's roughly matching what you think is a good rpm speed for the gear your in. If you get it right, the car won't dive at the front, the engine would have to suddenly rise from 3kpm to say 5krpm, and the clutch won't have to wear out.

peasant

ned78 wrote: »

You know if you go from 5th gear to 4rd gear when driving, the front of the car dips like you've slammed on the brakes, and the engine roars? Thats because the engine wasn't revving fast enough for the speed. Solution? Clutch in, change gear down, keep the clutch in, and rev the accelerator until it's roughly matching what you think is a good rpm speed for the gear your in. If you get it right, the car won't dive at the front, the engine would have to suddenly rise from 3kpm to say 5krpm, and the clutch won't have to wear out.

correct expalantion ...but wrong procedure in case of brake failure

You'd want the engine breaking to the max ..so I wouldn't match the revs but rather let the clutch out that bit more slowly so that the tyres wouldn't lock up but you'd still get good engine breaking. Feck the clutch ...you got no brakes and need to stop !


as for the handbrake ..I use it silently when in traffic and let it rip when parking up ..don't know why though

Masada

your supposed to just pull it up, not hold in the button, the mechanism of the lever is designed to be pulled while not pressing the button. If you were supposed to press the it then the handbrake would be made so that it wouldnt come up without pressing the button., one reason is that you can tell if there is wear on the cable/brakes etc by the amount of times the handbrake clicks, the NCT do this aswell., and in all the years ive been working on cars ive never seen one car with a failed ratchet mechanism due to wear and tear over use.,

fletch

I pull it up silently and then let it click once to ensure it's engaged

Owen

peasant wrote: »

correct expalantion ...but wrong procedure in case of brake failure

You'd want the engine breaking to the max ..so I wouldn't match the revs but rather let the clutch out that bit more slowly so that the tyres wouldn't lock up but you'd still get good engine breaking. Feck the clutch ...you got no brakes and need to stop !

It's actually entirely dependent on the situation. Seeing as the thread is originally questioned about being mechanically sympathetic, I followed suit. So if you discover at 60mph on a nice long open road that your brakes have failed, my method is best for slowing. If you need to stop in a hurry, although your method is correct, I doubt you'd be successfully able to stop in time.

Owen

vtec wrote: »

your supposed to just pull it up, not hold in the button, the mechanism of the lever is designed to be pulled while not pressing the button.

Actually, it's designed for both purposes.

vtec wrote: »

If you were supposed to press the it then the handbrake would be made so that it wouldnt come up without pressing the button

No, it wouldn't.

vtec wrote: »

one reason is that you can tell if there is wear on the cable/brakes etc by the amount of times the handbrake clicks

I don't know one person who counts clicks. They judge it by the feel of where their arm is when the process is finished, and by the look of the lever. Most people don't even know their handbrake cable has stretched until the lever is about 75 degress upright.

The ratchet in the mechanism is kept in place by a spring, right? So how could it be mechanically better to have that spring compress and expand at each click of the ratchet? It's better to compress it once with the button, lift the lever, and release it. It also saves the marginal, hardly noticeable wear and tear the ratchet claw places on the tooths as the handbrake goes up through it's arc.

peasant

ned78 wrote: »

If you need to stop in a hurry, although your method is correct, I doubt you'd be successfully able to stop in time.

you probably won't ...but you might be slow enough so that it doesn't hurt so much.

I tried it once, out of curiosity, on an empty road.
Trying to slow down a car only using engine breaking and the handbrake takes a veeeeery loooong time

Anan1

I would far sooner buy a car from someone who presses the button when using the handbrake than someone who just reefs it up. It's like slamming car doors in my book.

crosstownk

I don't think it really matters which way the handbrake is applied. Sure there are arguments for both methods, but in reality the amount of times ratchets and pawls are replaced is quite rare (I can't remember the last time I replaced one). Handbrake cables snapping are slightly more common, but usually they are replaced due to a kink or underside damage.

I've had more grief with those new electronic handbrakes on VWs, Audis, Renaults.........

Avns1s

Like vtec I'm around cars a while and I have never seen a ratchet worn because of pulling up the handbrake without depressing the button.

Therefore apply the handbrake whichever way you wish. It might be important though to pull it the last fraction of travel with the button released so that the ratchet is engaged fully rather than just held on the outside of the tooth, which could cause it to slip.

ned78 - almost all manufacturers measure the clicks of the handbrake to determine if adjustment is needed. Most owners manuals will give a range of between x and y clicks. Outside this the manufacturer will advise adjustment.

Owen

Avns1s wrote: »

ned78 - almost all manufacturers measure the clicks of the handbrake to determine if adjustment is needed. Most owners manuals will give a range of between x and y clicks. Outside this the manufacturer will advise adjustment.

Indeed. I work for a manufacturer. BUT my comment stated "Most people don't even know their handbrake cable has stretched until the lever is about 75 degress upright", in other words, Joe Public. Besides, pushing in the button is a hell of a lot more elegant than listening to "clickaclickaclickaclunk" at the lights.

Anan1

To be honest, I'd be surprised if it did any damage. It looks and sounds rough, though.

Anan1

ned78 wrote: »

Besides, pushing in the button is a hell of a lot more elegant than listening to "clickaclickaclickaclunk" at the lights.

Beat me to it.

Avns1s

ned78 wrote: »

Indeed. I work for a manufacturer. BUT my comment stated "Most people don't even know their handbrake cable has stretched until the lever is about 75 degress upright", in other words, Joe Public.

Ok, sorry for the little misinterpretation. I take your point and agree with it.

Masada

ned78 wrote: »

Actually, it's designed for both purposes.



No, it wouldn't.



I don't know one person who counts clicks. They judge it by the feel of where their arm is when the process is finished, and by the look of the lever. Most people don't even know their handbrake cable has stretched until the lever is about 75 degress upright.

The ratchet in the mechanism is kept in place by a spring, right? So how could it be mechanically better to have that spring compress and expand at each click of the ratchet? It's better to compress it once with the button, lift the lever, and release it. It also saves the marginal, hardly noticeable wear and tear the ratchet claw places on the tooths as the handbrake goes up through it's arc.

it is a fact that there is a tolerance of between x & y amount of clicks on the lever in order for it to be passed by the NCT, not position as some cars have different angles when up/down so that would be pointless , and as for the spring theory, thats just purely silly, the spring is designed specifically to outlast the life expectancy of the car, not to ever need changing unless damaged which would be very unlikely, I have worked on cars that had been so badly detereorated that the handbrake lever mounts where comming out of the floor yet still the spring was working perfectly after i rewelded new mounts in.,

crosstownk

vtec wrote: »

and as for the spring theory, thats just purely silly, the spring is designed specifically to outlast the life expectancy of the car, not to ever need changing unless damaged which would be very unlikely

I totally agree. If anyone has seen the spring that engages the pawl it will be painfully obvious that the pressure applied by this spring will not be sufficient to cause serious wear.

Masada

crosstownk wrote: »

I totally agree. If anyone has seen the spring that engages the pawl it will be painfully obvious that the pressure applied by this spring will not be sufficient to cause serious wear.

aswell as the lever frames usually being rivited/welded etc so a very difficult job to switch the spring out.,;)

herederos

funktastic wrote: »

I passed my test a year and a half ago but never really found a reliable answer to this question from two different driving instructors. One told me to allow the rasping noise when applying the hand-brake as the silent method would cause damage to the cable. another told me to apply it silently, holding the ratchet down, to prevent eventual hand-brake failure. I also read in an old book to apply the hand-brake silently.

Which is the correct method? I'm assuming silently? Or does it matter on newer cars?

Thanks.

Applying the handbrake( if properly adjusted) you pull up on the rachet as a means of safety. It is nothing to do with wear and tear of the cable.