Cork City vs The FAI

KdjaCL

heh this could be fun, i think theres another agenda here but "rules are rules"

Club Statement on FAI Cup Final
Contrary to the 2007 FAI Cup Competition rules, the FAI have indicated that Cork City Football Club and Longford Town Football Club will not receive any revenues from gate receipts or television royalties from the final.
Cork City Football Club are scheduled to meet with the Football Association of Ireland on Wednesday morning to evaluate the costs associated with the running of the final.

Following this meeting, a further press release will be issued.

FAI Senior Challenge Cup Competition Rules:

24. The Final tie will be controlled by the Football Association of Ireland. In the Final Tie, the receipts, after all expenses have been paid, shall be divided as follows: The FAI to take 40 per cent, balance to be equally divided between the two competing Clubs after all expenses have been paid.

33. The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played.

"Rumour" is they will out of the of the FAI Cup Final if the FAI dont adhere to their own rules. Wonder if pats could play in it instead we are everyones favourite "technicality" club


kdjac

godtabh

KdjaCL wrote: »

heh this could be fun, i think theres another agenda here but "rules are rules"



"Rumour" is they will out of the of the FAI Cup Final if the FAI dont adhere to their own rules. Wonder if pats could play in it instead we are everyones favourite "technicality" club


kdjac

I dont get it. Is one of the teams gona drop out after not getting paid for the final appearance?

Pigman II

I guess if Cork pull out Bohs would get their place. A nice bonus for us but I'm slightly hoping they don't as the Bohs v Longford game at Dalymount last week was possibly one of the worst I've ever seen. A repeat in the final like that wouldn't be much of an advert for the game here

radiospan

After missing out on Intertoto, there's no way City would throw away potential UEFA Cup qualification surely?

KdjaCL

kearnsr wrote: »

I dont get it. Is one of the teams gona drop out after not getting paid for the final appearance?

Normally the monies are split 40% FAI 30% to each club, last season pats and derry got it but the FAI increased the prize money so assumed they wouldnt have to share the gate and tv monies, they never changed the rules to state that.

So Cork want the increased prize money and a sahre of gate and tv monies.



kdjac

godtabh

KdjaCL wrote: »

Normally the monies are split 40% FAI 30% to each club, last season pats and derry got it but the FAI increased the prize money so assumed they wouldnt have to share the gate and tv monies, they never changed the rules to state that.

So Cork want the increased prize money and a sahre of gate and tv monies.



kdjac

Oh right that makes it more clear now

_blank_

The FAI once again show themselves to be clueless halfwits.

The increased prizemoney was to compensate the clubs who have to keep paying the players for three more weeks, after the FAI moved the final to pander to the blazers junket to South Africa.

Ronan|Raven

Sure let them pull out. A 10-0 walkover will do us nicely.

_blank_

So you can embarrass yourselves and everyone else in some two-bit town in deepest Wales again?

No thanks.

Ronan|Raven

We would sooner somewhere in eastern europe. Be nice to get away on a holiday that time of year :P

KdjaCL

Desf hopes to play Derry in a cup, its europe kinda.


kdjac

_blank_

DesF hopes his team exist, never mind playing Derry.

Ronan|Raven

Be interesting who will be our manager next season, rumours are going around that Vinny Perth may be coming back to take over.

Roar

i fully expect city to play the tie,think they're just playing devils advocate..

but **** like this has been going on in the fai for far too long, and it's about time someone stood up to them.

afaik longford share the same belief but aren't going to go public with it, and they need the money, whereas city don't.. (heard last night that the money from the cup will be going straight to the players)

rules are rules, if the FAI want the clubs to adhere to them then they have to as well..

gimmick

Seems the jackasses at the FAI have lost control of the situation altogether - tickets are now available for the final through ticketmaster, not mentioning which sections are for which team. Neither club has been given their allocation yet either, so what the hell are they at?

Surely the FAI should get the nonsense sorted first, then put tickets for sale, or do they even care? Muppets.

Ronan|Raven

The arl fella got a letter today from the FAI ticketing office (he is on the BB scheme) offering him tickets for the Final. Surely the tickets should be sold via the clubs first then the remainder put on sale in Ticketmaster??

_blank_

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

The arl fella got a letter today from the FAI ticketing office (he is on the BB scheme) offering him tickets for the Final. Surely the tickets should be sold via the clubs first then the remainder put on sale in Ticketmaster??

As soon as the FAI figures out it's arse from it's elbow, it might start doing things in the correct order.

Or they could start by starting to treat the eL with some fúcking respect.

I'm sick and tired of clowns up and down this country looking at and treating this league like it's a cancer.

For fúck sake, how are they going to convince anyone to start to give a toss about the eL if all they do is bring it from one shambles to the next, them being the root cause of the majority of the fúck ups.

Some of the right thinking clubs in this country need to get together and break away from the out of control juggernaut that is the FAI, tell them to fúck right off and run it themselves.

DSB

The FAI is an absolute disgrace for many things, this just takes the cake.

gimmick

An announcement due from both clubs and the FAI this morning.

_blank_

It'll go ahead, and the clubs will get the money.

Yet another avoidable mess the FAI could have prevented.

I fúcking hate the bastards.

gimmick

Scratch that, it is in the Emaniner this morning that the FAI have backed down. More details later.

OhNoYouDidn't

Cork Village offered all the 100k to the players in bonuses before the semi's if they win the cup and happely signed up to the process then. Then one f hte eagle eyed investment bankers in London who own the club spotted a loophole and went after it.

Its that simple. The FAI rule book versus a City Banker.

gimmick

Once again you have shown an amazing insight into something you know absolutely NOTHING about.

These are the facts:

The FAI offered the €100k and €75k prize moneys. This is what the clubs agreed to. there was no ifs, buts or wherefors involve, no provisos. The clubs were hardly going to say no, where they?

The FAI broke their own rules by then saying that they would not comply to the usual 40/30/30%%% after expenses rule.

The FAI backtracked saying that the clubs agreed to this as well as the prize money aspect when they realised they had made a rather monumental error.

There is no London Bankers working for CCFC.

----
Put your own "cup specialist" team in our or Longford position and what would they do? Happily tow the libne even though it would be wrong to do so, or kick up a stink against a horribly badly run 'organistaion' which plods along making one mess after another?

_blank_

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Cork Village offered all the 100k to the players in bonuses before the semi's if they win the cup and happely signed up to the process then. Then one f hte eagle eyed investment bankers in London who own the club spotted a loophole and went after it.

Its that simple. The FAI rule book versus a City Banker.

I can't believe someone who supports a team in the eL is actually sticking up for the FAI.

I'm seriously baffled.

OhNoYouDidn't

gimmick wrote: »

Once again you have shown an amazing insight into something you know absolutely NOTHING about.

These are the facts:

The FAI offered the €100k and €75k prize moneys as hush money to the clubs to not publicly complain about the date of the final. This was agreed to by both clubs.

The FAI broke their own rules by then saying that they would not comply to the usual 40/30/30%%% after expenses rule.

The FAI backtracked saying that the clubs agreed to this as well as the prize money aspect when they realised they had made a rather monumental error.

There is no London Bankers working for CCFC.

----
Put your own "cup specialist" team in our or Longford position and what would they do? Happily tow the libne even though it would be wrong to do so, or kick up a atsink against a horribly badly run 'organistaion' which plods along making one mess after another?

Hold on. The prize money was agreed and signed off on by all entrants. There is a minimum amount for both finalists including gate reciepts and TV money. All agreed with the clubs long before the cup final dates were announced. The FAI simply forgot to remove the clause that gave teams a fixed cut of the gate as this is included in the agreed prize money. The owners of CCFC spotted this and are chancing their arms.

There is no London Bankers working for CCFC. CCFC are owned by a London Invesment house. You do know that?

Argakan (or whatever) saw this anomaly and are trying to get their cut of the gate twice. I have this from a more reliable source than you. What do you think firms like this do? They try to extract money wherever they see it.

DesF, I beleive the FAI should be held accountable, but they are not responsible for every little issue. This was a simple error and the Investment fund that own the Village are ruthlessly exploiting this loophole. There is no Macheivellian FAI conspiracy to rip off the clubs. Talking about cancers etc is ludicrious in this situation.

gimmick

^ Okay, I will bow to your knowledge, as I obviously know nothing about the ins and outs of this particular case.

Arkaga are a London based investement firm, however, no one who works in the offices of CCFC or represents CCFC is a London banker.

The FAI simply forgot to remove the clause that gave teams a fixed cut of the gate as this is included in the agreed prize money.

That makes it all okay then?

but they are not responsible for every little issue.

Prize money is a little issue? Whatever.

Village? Yawn. Try a new line, or can you not move on from the past?

_blank_

The very fact that a Rovers supporter is having a go at a club supposedly exploiting loopholes is all kinds of moronic.

Have you any ironing to do ONYD?

Roar

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Hold on. The prize money was agreed and signed off on by all entrants. There is a minimum amount for both finalists including gate reciepts and TV money. All agreed with the clubs long before the cup final dates were announced. The FAI simply forgot to remove the clause that gave teams a fixed cut of the gate as this is included in the agreed prize money. The owners of CCFC spotted this and are chancing their arms.

There is no London Bankers working for CCFC. CCFC are owned by a London Invesment house. You do know that?

Argakan (or whatever) saw this anomaly and are trying to get their cut of the gate twice. I have this from a more reliable source than you. What do you think firms like this do? They try to extract money wherever they see it.

DesF, I beleive the FAI should be held accountable, but they are not responsible for every little issue. This was a simple error and the Investment fund that own the Village are ruthlessly exploiting this loophole. There is no Macheivellian FAI conspiracy to rip off the clubs. Talking about cancers etc is ludicrious in this situation.

jesus..

The FAI raised the prize money to keep the clubs quiet about moving the cup final so they can all go on their junket to south africa for the wc draw.. this is why the cup final is on THREE WEEKS after the league has ended.. what other league in the world would that happen in?

however, the FAI neglected to tel the clubs at that time that the improved prize money would be in lieu of gate/tv revenue. The fai were only more than happy to take the positive publicity garnered from the prizemoney issue, but again, neglected to tell anyone,. let alone the clubs, that the prizemoney came at a cost.

it wasnt until recently that the issue of the gate/tv came to light, and City rightly took the fai to task on it.

I don't remember the exact wording, but rule 24 of the cup rulebook deals with prize money, saying that after expenses the fai got 40% of the remaining money, and the clubs split the remaining 60%.

rule 33 says that the fai DO have the power to change rules, however they CANNOT DO SO until AFTER the final has been played. now, not giving the clubs their share of the gate/tv means that the FAI have changed their rules, however, as stated in their OWN rule book, they CANNOT DO SO until after the final.

So, the FAI are in breach of their own rule book, and are trying to worm their way out of it. This is the same FAI who INSIST we must all abide by the rules TO THE LETTER, and are only too happy to dole out fines for toilet paper or smoke bombs or delaney out banners

Arkagan (sic) are not trying to get their cut of the gate money twice. that doesn't even make sense. What they are trying to do, is to get the prizemoney announced by the FAI in a big publicity stunt, but also the money due to them AS STATED IN THE FAI CUP RULE BOOK.

"TRYING TO EXTRACT MONEY WHEREVER THEY SEE IT"

this isn't about money for arkaga. they have plenty of it. if it was about money do you genuinely think the prize money would be going directly to the players? come on, think about it for a second.

The FAI have gotten away with far too much, and if it takes CCFC to stand up to them, and show other clubs that the FAI can be stood up to, they should be applauded


"The FAI simply forgot to remove the clause that gave teams a fixed cut of the gate as this is included in the agreed prize money."

as i've already said, the fai cannot "remove the clause" until after the cup final has been played.

I have this from a more reliable source than you.

what are you, 12?

CCFC are owned by a London Invesment house. You do know that?

gimmick just said that's what they are, his point is that no london bankers are working for the club, which you so vehemently say there are

Its that simple. The FAI rule book versus a City Banker.

you're quite right, that's exactly what it is. The FAI trying to change their own rule book despite it contravening their own rules, versus someone who is no longer going to put up with that kind of **** from now on..

OhNoYouDidn't

Roar wrote: »

The FAI raised the prize money to keep the clubs quiet about moving the cup final so they can all go on their junket to south africa for the wc draw.. this is why the cup final is on THREE WEEKS after the league has ended.. what other league in the world would that happen in?..

Roar wrote: »

however, the FAI neglected to tel the clubs at that time that the improved prize money would be in lieu of gate/tv revenue. The fai were only more than happy to take the positive publicity garnered from the prizemoney issue, but again, neglected to tell anyone,. let alone the clubs, that the prizemoney came at a cost.

it wasnt until recently that the issue of the gate/tv came to light, and City rightly took the fai to task on it...

This is the nub of our difference in interpretation. I was aware that the prizemoney was in lieu of the gate cut and I think its disengeniuos to say that the FAI 'neglected' to tell anyone. Shades of Maxi on this one.

The league isnt over yet, we still have playoffs to go. You are playing loose with the facts to suit your argument.

Roar wrote: »

So, the FAI are in breach of their own rule book, and are trying to worm their way out of it. This is the same FAI who INSIST we must all abide by the rules TO THE LETTER, and are only too happy to dole out fines for toilet paper or smoke bombs or delaney out banners..

Its that simple. The FAI rule book versus a City Banker.

you're quite right, that's exactly what it is. The FAI trying to change their own rule book despite it contravening their own rules, versus someone who is no longer going to put up with that kind of **** from now on..

This I broadly agree with.

Roar wrote: »

Arkagan (sic) are not trying to get their cut of the gate money twice. that doesn't even make sense. What they are trying to do, is to get the prizemoney announced by the FAI in a big publicity stunt, but also the money due to them AS STATED IN THE FAI CUP RULE BOOK.
..

I have to laugh at the image of Hedge Fund managers looking out for the good of Irish football. They are out to squeeze every last cent and this loophole is €35k straight into the P&L. These guys are ruthless and are exploiting a loophole.

Whats more interesting is that the Cork Village fans see no ominious signs flashing here....

Roar

what are these "ominous signs"?

OhNoYouDidn't

Roar wrote: »

what are these "ominous signs"?

that the Bankers can tell the Board to take action against the FAI to try and extort money (and lost I believe, announcement against CCFC imminent) and they have too.

Roar

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

that the Bankers can tell the Board to take action against the FAI to try and extort money (and lost I believe, announcement against CCFC imminent) and they have too.

ha ha ha

"bankers telling the board".. just goes to illustrate that you genuinely have no idea about this situation

good man, that gave me a chuckle

"extort money"

money that's due to them as outlined in the FAI's rule book? how is that extortion?

"announcement against ccfc imminent"

you couldn't be further from the truth..

and i have this "from a more reliable source than you"

OhNoYouDidn't

Roar wrote: »

ha ha ha


"announcement against ccfc imminent"

you couldn't be further from the truth..

and i have this "from a more reliable source than you"

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/soccer/fai-says-cup-final-financial-package-will-stand-1219618.html

Oh dear.

Cork City fail to read the rule book properly, again. You would think the fans might start asking questions at this point....

Roar

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/soccer/fai-says-cup-final-financial-package-will-stand-1219618.html

Oh dear.

Cork City fail to read the rule book properly, again. You would think the fans might start asking questions at this point....

ummmm... they have read the rulebook properly.. this is waht this whole argument is about... are you understanding what you're reading or is it just going straight over your head?

gimmick

Exactly what is news there? And what rulebook did City not read. Fact is, it is still the FAI who f**ked up, no one else.

OhNoYouDidn't

Roar wrote: »

ummmm... they have read the rulebook properly.. this is waht this whole argument is about... are you understanding what you're reading or is it just going straight over your head?

Ok, try the agreement of participation in the FAI cup they signed.

you were adament Healy and Farrelly were eligible.

you are adament that you are entitled to the same money twice.

my last word on this is hmmmm.

gimmick

At no point did CCFC agree that the FAI should take 100% of the gate. That is a fact. The reason CCFC never agreed to it, is because it never came up. The first CCFC knew of the FAIs intention was in a memo sent to both finalists last week. All City are doing is standing their ground.

_blank_

24. The Final tie will be controlled by the Football Association of Ireland. In the Final Tie, the receipts, after all expenses have been paid, shall be divided as follows: The FAI to take 40 per cent, balance to be equally divided between the two competing Clubs after all expenses have been paid.

33. The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The FAI increased the prizemoney. Yes.

The FAI did not stipulate to either club that the increased prizemoney would come at the expense of the gate receipts, that is simple to comprehend ONYD, why can't you understand that.

The FAI are now trying to change Rule 24, before the game is played, and by doing so are contravening their own Rule 33.

There is no club trying to extort money via a loophole as far as I can see.

Although, what must be said, si that I cannot see CCFC or LTFC walking away from the cup final. Not with Setanta and Europe at stake.

It would seem to be nothing but huff and bluster. The FAI will just say "Are ye in or out lads?" and CCFC will have to be in.

Unless they bring it to court, at which stage I expect everyone, including CCFC fans to be indignant with anger at a club sullying the name of football by dragging it through the courts, to get rules followed properly.

Roar

the same money twice.. you are able to differentiate between PRIZE MONEY and GATE RECEIPTS/TV REVENUE yeah?

this has nothing to do with the healy and farrelly situation..

an agreement of participation in the fai cup.. which would have a rule book.. and just to make sure you were paying attention, what do rules 24 and 33 of the 2007 cup rules state?

Roar

DesF wrote: »

Unless they bring it to court,

isn' there some rule that says you can't bring the FAI to court, or is that something i imagined?

_blank_

Roar wrote: »

isn' there some rule that says you can't bring the FAI to court, or is that something i imagined?

Yeah, but CCFC like to break rules

gimmick

Meanwhile, tickets are on sale on ticketmaster before either club has been given their allocation, so in theory, it could be sold out before the allocations are given. This beggars belief.

OhNoYouDidn't

the question is whether the particpation agreement can be seen as an amendment to the competetions rules.

DesF wrote: »

The FAI did not stipulate to either club that the increased prizemoney would come at the expense of the gate receipts, that is simple to comprehend ONYD, why can't you understand that.

.

SO CORK CITY SAY.

That is my point. Other clubs interpreted the increased prizemoney as being inclusive of the gate. and lets face it, CCFC have previous with reading simple documents like the rest of the footballing world.

Why are Longford, who are totally tapped and facing a winding up order not jump on this? Because they understood the document in front of them.

gimmick

Longford are not being as vocal as City, but they did attend that meeting yesterday and are standing shoulder to shoulder with City.

KdjaCL

The current rule book is the rule i quoted int eh 1st post.

rules are rules etc:

You can get relegated, lose a title, get relegated, get into UEFA for free etc.

kdjac

Big Ears

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

the question is whether the particpation agreement can be seen as an amendment to the competetions rules.

33. The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played.

OhNoYouDidn't

Big Ears wrote: »

33. The Council shall have power to alter the FAI Cup Rules, but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played.

and the participation agreement to enter the cup was signed when?

KdjaCL

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

and the participation agreement to enter the cup was signed when?

ehh thats the rule book even you on the internet can read.

i think your missing that point the rule book from the start of the season (agreement signed pre that) is still valid it being the rule book and all.


kdjac

OhNoYouDidn't

KdjaCL wrote: »

ehh thats the rule book even you on the internet can read.

i think your missing that point the rule book from the start of the season (agreement signed pre that) is still valid it being the rule book and all.

I think you are missing the point that things can be added to the rule book, especially binding participation agreements. How many of FIFA's rules are in the actual rules of the game?

_blank_

Jesus Christ ONYD, just give up now, you've backed the wrong horse here.

Look, here it is again, in plain black and white English

but in no case shall they do so until after the Final Tie in any competition has been played.

How much clearer do you want it?

The FAI said that no rules can be changed, yet they are trying to change the rules.

In doing so they are once again pissing clubs off, pissing fans off, making themselves look like clowns and making the eL look like a fúcking circus.

No-one else but the FAI is at fault here.

Full stop.

OhNoYouDidn't

I'm not saying the FAI havent made a mess of this.

I'm saying that Cork City's interpretation of the rule book and specifically that it can't be amended by participation agreements seems to be accepted by most on here. But remember the same people were sure that they interpreted FIFA's rules on eligibilty last season.

This is not as simple as is being made out. Again, how many of FIFA's regulations are in the official football rulebook?