Don't Athletes Deserve Respect too? GAA Players Strike

sonvolt

Hi,
It seems odd to me that with all the recent media coverage of the ongoing GPA dispute that there is such little counter-argument to it. (First off I haven't posted here before so let me say, I'm not a armchair sports fan or anti-gaa by any means. I'm active sports person in athletics, cycling and other supports as well as reguarly going to GAA games.)

What seems out of whack to me, is that the GPA association has worked with the government to agree a fee of 5Million for their grants, which when compared to what is provided to the irish sports council each year, generally in the region of ~4.5million to cover 15 different sports. Also those athletes and sports people coming under the carding scheme have to meet tough qualification standards to be considerd world/european class and also with the righ age profile too. No such scheme has been mentioned for the GPA grants.

GAA players are not world class athletes, let the pretence end as Keith Duggan suggests in todays times, the aussie rules series highlighted the gulf in class. This is not meant as a criticism of the GAA players as they do provide great entertainment and exciting sports. Instead it is born out by the fact that the level of time players can give to the sport do not measure up to what a world class athlete puts into his trade. Meanwhile in order to qualify for funding in any other sport you need to be a world beater capable of performing at the highest level in World and European Championships. In boxing to reach the minimum standard you need to be last 16 in the world. In athletics you need to be top 8 in the Europeans. Even then you would only be eligible for a maximum of €12,000 (a sum few at this level receive).

If you compare the effort GAA players put in it is no different than top domestic athletes in sport. Top domestic cyclists train +15hours a week regularly and swimmers, runners, triathletes, boxers, rowers are all on a par with this. Unfortunately while this is considerable it falls well short of the commitment and effort of international athletes. Put these athletes into international competition and the gap is evident. International athletes train 20-30hrs a week and at a much higher intensity. Also in terms of commitment many of these international athletes have to go full time to fit in training and the necessary recovery. This means putting their career on hold and taking on massive debts. In many sports such as swimming, rowing, badminton there is no professional game where they can ever hope to recoup their financial rewards. Consider the case of young David Campbell recently and what he has done in order to compete in Osaka

Even if these athletes can get a grant it comes way short of financing the necessary world class coaching and international competition.

Bottom line is that the GAA needs to get off the fence here and address the issue within the organisation and not been looking for the government to intervene, here with some sort of irish solution to an irish probelm. They are making massive amounts of money from their commerical activities and gate collections, so why not use more of this fund. They have to stop trying to fudge the issue as pointed out by Tom Brewster article in last sundays tribune which highlighted how the grant scheme would work.

So guys what do you think? If this goes through will John Treacy be looking for a substantial increase or a grant scheme for other sports?

sonvolt

TheRoadRunner

First off sonvolt Brilliant post.

I have great time for GAA players and I'm a regular supporter of the Dublin teams particularly the football team. I think they deserve everything they are due from the new grant schemes.

Having said that you are correct in your assertion that most inter county players are not word class athletes! Well they might be but we would need more countries in the world to play GAA games before we could make that decision.

I have always thought that Irish track and field athletes (I know other disciplines are treated badly also) are given a raw deal. Listening to Newstalk a couple of months back a number of Irish athletes got hammering about there current form. It seems in team sports an off season/game can be easily hidden.

I'll post in more detail later but basically I think your suggestion that John Tracey apply for additional funding is fantastic. I wonder if there are Irish journalists out there (maybe Ian O'Riordain) who share your views and could articulate them in national print !

All the best

ss43

The International Rules does not show that GAA players are not world class. It shows that Aussie Rules players are better at adapting to the hybrid game. It also doesn't take hurlers into account.

Tha GAA is not looking for the government to intervene. The problem is that the government promised grants to players if the GPA and the GAA could agree to how to deal them out. The GAA wants no part in it so the problem is not the GAA seeking governemnt grants for players.

As for a reason why a GAA player would get more money - they provide more entertainment to the Irish public. A huge portion of the public would have little or no interest in the performances of some of the people on grants.

By the way, I'm not in favour of the strike. The GPA, in typical union fashion, are trying to bully the GAA. The GPA claims to not be seeking professionalism but the rate per week, as far as I am aware, is much better for those reaching the latter stages of the championship. This in effect means that players are getting paid for their quality rather than compensation for time put in.

That said, I'd rather see them get the grants than some of the foreigners masquerading as Irish athletes.

Road Runner, as regards the press - athletes get much less stick from the press than GAA players.

Common Sense

ss43, I was agreeing happily with you until the last sentence, which betrayed a very narrowsense of nationalism. 'Foreign born' Irish athletes, they are still Irish and hold Irish passports. Would you put the O'hAilpins in the same boat. A lot of young Irish people through no fault of their own, usually an imposed poverty, were forced to leave the land and their loved ones out of economic necessity to provide themselves with a living and, indeed, send money home to help support those left behind. They and the various generatins of their offspring are now our diaspora, who have pride in holding their Irish passports and representing the land of their forefathers.

TheRoadRunner

This seems to be descending into a debate about the GAA. I think the thrust of the initial post was that other sportspersons should receive funding as well.

ss43 wrote: »

As for a reason why a GAA player would get more money - they provide more entertainment to the Irish public. A huge portion of the public would have little or no interest in the performances of some of the people on grants.

Yes I suppose this is true. But if we want to get more success and in turn more interest in international sports events such as athletics, cycling, sailing or whatever improved investment is needed.

ss43 wrote: »

That said, I'd rather see them get the grants than some of the foreigners masquerading as Irish athletes.

There is one athlete "masquerading" as an Irish athlete to my knowledge. Funny thing is if he wins an Olympic medal the majority of taxpayers will not give a monkies and jump on his "Masquerading Paddy Bandwagon"

ss43 wrote: »

Road Runner, as regards the press - athletes get much less stick from the press than GAA players.

I don't know about that. The GAA lads definitely get more column inches be they good or bad, I just feel the majority of stuff written about athletics is generally negative!
Sometimes making a semifinal or final is not seen as an achievement even though it means the athlete is in the top 20 in the world.

ss43

With regard to the athletes pretending to be Irish - I was using the term athlete to refer to sportsperson (apologies for that as I was using it to meant track & field athletes in other sentences) so there's more than just one methinks.

The negative stuff about athletics is less personal. The Irish team did bad etc. but with GAA players will be individually picked out. It's likely to have more prominence than the athletics too.

Common sense - I wasn't referring to foreign born athletes. I was referring to foreign born, foreign raised, foreign based athletes. I don't mind people who are making a life for themselves in Ireland competing for us - that's fair enough.
I siad foreigners - if you assume I mean foreign born that's your problem. The Ó hAilpíns, having lived in Ireland since an early age, could oviously called Irish.

Common Sense

ss43, I assumed you meant Irish persons born abroad. However, you didn't answer the main trust of my argument - that anyone to qualify for Ireland in any sport must be the holders of an Irish passport. The Irish diaspora find themselves in the position they're in through no fault of their own, nor through any fault of their parents, grandparents or even great grandparents. They were, heartbreakingly, forced through necessity to go abroad or starve. Even when they did they continued to contribute in a massive way to the growth of our nation through the sending home of money. I don't think those of us who are lucky to be born here and to be able to remain here and earn our livings should be castigating those who couldn't and its in this respect I think your view of what an 'Irishman' is to be flawed.

sonvolt

Guys,
Just to pick up one one point in the response above about the recent the GAA players would/should get more money is because of the entertainment they provider to a wider audience and that 'most people' wouldn't be interested in the peformance of people on the grants. I agree with the first point that the GAA players do provide excellent entertainment to a wide audience certainly better than the over-hyped premiership for example. However to say most people wouldn't have an interest in the performance of people on the grants, assuming this is referring to atheletics people, cyclstis, rowers, boxers etc, is to do them a dis-service, as the former have better facilities here receive far higher media coverage (as highlighted in the Irish sports council, 'Ballpark figures' report which is an excellent read, providing an insight in the participation levels/profiles/policies and recommendations.) So if the other sports had the facilties and receive the same amount of media coverage particuarly highlighting the efforts some of these people put in then there would be an increase audience for them.

Also don't know if anybody saw Mick O'Dwyer on the late late friday, as usual not a very indepth interview by any means but he did make some very odd remarks about the GPA strike and what players should be getting, saying something a long the lines that sure they are only getting 50cent a mile in expenses and for young guys starting off trying to buy houses this makes their efforts harder to justify! So now are we to believe we should be compensating guys in order so they can build up a house deposit! I'm sure he what he was meaning to say was that they were loosing out on work overtime by going training but hey that's your choice in amateur sport! I bought a new house last year, had to furnish it out and was faced with a choice of buying a new pair of wheels or delay getting a couch for a while....thousands of these decisions are made all the time with no grants to help out.

Anyway it will be interesting to see how it pans out and just as much how it is reported in the media...

sonvolt

ps. forgot to add in the original post, the headline was in response to Sean Moran's article from last wednesday's irish times.

ecoli

ss43 wrote: »

Road Runner, as regards the press - athletes get much less stick from the press than GAA players.

get ur facts straight athletes recieve so much abuse that the last time they were attack was a matter of the last 24hrs in which once again they were judged on lack of medals this year by john spillane in the sunday world. he said that the money being wasted on these athletes who are competing in a professional sport on amateur pay.
he failed to mention gillick retaining european indoor championship not to mention performances such as paul hession who is single handedly reviving irish 100m and 200m s or the fact that our youths had a phenomenomal year securing four medals in the europeans in Belgrade
we look at the 12,000 grant awarded how can our elite live on that full time to compare with the best in the world
The Gaa our takin money from other sports at a time of tight budget coming up to protect there amateur status and yet if the popularity of this sport is so big why not turn professional to increase the standard so the players can focus on full time sports it is not like the gaa arent making a fortune off gate revenues and sponsorship that they could not afford to cover these costs and hopefully prove that these players are of world class standard and could prove this come International Rules time

ss43

Did you ever hear of a group of 17/18 year old athletes getting stick in the press? It happens minor GAA teams.

A GAA player is more likely to read about his personal life in the paper.

The GAA doesn't turn professional because it goes against its ethos not because it doesn't have the money.

Not many elite athletes live off their government grants. They live off sponsorship, prize money, appearance fees etc. If you expect the government to pay them enough to live off and compete with the best in the world, you could only give grants to about one tenth of the amount of athletes currently receiving grants.

sonvolt, GAA gets greater press coverage because that's what the public wants to read about. They cater for the market that's there.

ecoli

ss43 wrote: »

Did you ever hear of a group of 17/18 year old athletes getting stick in the press? It happens minor GAA teams.

A GAA player is more likely to read about his personal life in the paper.

The GAA doesn't turn professional because it goes against its ethos not because it doesn't have the money.

Not many elite athletes live off their government grants. They live off sponsorship, prize money, appearance fees etc. If you expect the government to pay them enough to live off and compete with the best in the world, you could only give grants to about one tenth of the amount of athletes currently receiving grants.

sonvolt, GAA gets greater press coverage because that's what the public wants to read about. They cater for the market that's there.

not only have i heard of as young as 16 yr olds gettin stick but have been a victim of it

and i dont agree with the goverment allocating more to an amateur sport(5m)than the combined amount of 15 professional sports(4.5m) in this country which have included world and european champions for decades such as boxing athletics and many other sports

cfitz

ecoli wrote: »

not only have i heard of as young as 16 yr olds gettin stick but have been a victim of it

any chance you could supply the specifics of this attack(s) and the name of the newspaper/magazine/tv programme?

ecoli

i could but i have since had an apology from the editor and as a result am goin to refrane from attacking the newspaper in question as it was onli a local paper
but we are gettin away from the point on that i was jus defending athletics in comparison to gaeilc criticism in my opinion is often worse in other sports