Gormley tax plans in Sunday Times

what_car

JHMEG wrote: »

We are the fools that put those fools back in government. We have no-one to blame but ourselves for continually voting them in.

i certainly didnt vote those clowns in.! that will go down like a lead baloon with the public, well those fools who voted fianna fail or greens , now will come to reap what they have sown..............
:eek:

i can see some good deals in second hand big motors coming.........
i planned well, my road tax is up end dec so im gonna renew for a full year at the current price for a 2.0 which is €539..

if this goes ahead, i rekon we will see more road tax dodgers.
found this :
http://langerland.com/content/view/38/59/

Jimbo

I reckon if people kick up it could force a Dempsey-esque u-turn. Gormleys email - minister@environ.ie

what_car

jimbo78 wrote: »

I reckon if people kick up it could force a Dempsey-esque u-turn. Gormleys email - minister@environ.ie

i will be sending him a nice email and maybe a fax later this evening..

and we will be having incinerators as well!

E92

JHMEG wrote: »

It'll be great when it can, and it'll be even better when Priuses and Civic Hybrids can use it. Will make Focus FFV will look archaic.

I agree it would be very good if that type of Ethanol were available here. Nevertheless, the existing method is reducing oil consumption. If anything, it will make a Hybrid all the more pointless IMO. All that extra weight and complication with those batteries when they're made and being disposed won't be worth the hassle.

A Prius(if it were FFV) would produce around 16 g/km of CO2. At that end of the scale the difference while still very large percentage wise(to the Ford) is very small numbers wise. If you had Hybrid bits without the electric engine a la BMW Efficient Dynamics it would make it even more pointless.

We've had this difference of opinion a million times already and we've never agreed on it, no need to have yet another one;).

Tails142

Why cant they just leave the tax rates alone - they're high enough as it is ffs.

1,001 to 1,100 227
1,101 to 1,200 251
1,201 to 1,300 272
1,301 to 1,400 292
1,401 to 1,500 313
1,501 to 1,600 391
1,601 to 1,700 414
1,701 to 1,800 484
1,801 to 1,900 511
1,901 to 2,000 539
2,001 to 2,100 689
2,101 to 2,200 722
2,201 to 2,300 755
2,301 to 2,400 786
2,401 to 2,500 821
2,501 to 2,600 961
2,601 to 2,700 999
2,701 to 2,800 1,033
2,801 to 2,900 1,071
2,901 to 3,000 1,109
3,001 or more 1,343

astraboy

As people have said, tax on petrol is the most efficient way of making the polluter pay. Paying a flat road tax based on cc is outdated anyway. If someone chooses to buy a small car, they can still pollute as much as a larger car depending on both the mileage and the type of driving. If you only drive 50 miles a week and wish to do so in a large car, you will be paying proportionate to your driving and use. Anyway, cc has little to do with emissions or how environmentally friendly a car is, a 1.4 from 1990 pollutes far more then a 1.8 from 2000 simply due to technological advances in fueling and emissions.

As for people voting back in FF, very true. I did'nt vote for them, never will but it is a case of people reaping what the sowed last summer in the election. Looks like my decision to leave Ireland for a while after next year could be a good one.

E92

Tails142 wrote: »

Why cant they just leave the tax rates alone - they're high enough as it is ffs.

1,001 to 1,100 227
1,101 to 1,200 251
1,201 to 1,300 272
1,301 to 1,400 292
1,401 to 1,500 313
1,501 to 1,600 391
1,601 to 1,700 414
1,701 to 1,800 484
1,801 to 1,900 511
1,901 to 2,000 539
2,001 to 2,100 689
2,101 to 2,200 722
2,201 to 2,300 755
2,301 to 2,400 786
2,401 to 2,500 821
2,501 to 2,600 961
2,601 to 2,700 999
2,701 to 2,800 1,033
2,801 to 2,900 1,071
2,901 to 3,000 1,109
3,001 or more 1,343

No elections quite probably for another 5 years, why do you think?

And yes they should be, but the so called "Enviornment" Minister who wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dipstick and a speedo and clearly knows absolutely nothing about cars(then again some of the eco mentalists think a 4X4 pollutes 500 g/km, most are well under 250 g/km), has plans which weren't what I had in mind.

What could be simpler than a tax on CO2 emissions?(other than no tax at all obviously:D)

Triangle

Hmmm seeing as the ever knowing government are now trying to make poluters pay more - i take it they'll somehow standardize the use of petrol as already the polluter pays with the amount of fuel they use or has this fact escaped them.

This is worse than the usual blunders we've previously had with FF.

Me thinks the greens will soon be extinct!!

peasant

E92 wrote: »

What could be simpler than a tax on CO2 emissions?(other than no tax at all obviously:D)

On what CO2 emissions?

Those actually emitted or those you could *potentially* emit while you're on the bus and car is in the driveway ?:D

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

Me smells a FF voter. Next I suppose you'll be telling me we actually have a good rail network, despite the fact that virtually every industrial estate (where these commuters work) in the country has no train station next or near it.

I didnt vote (was at the CL final).

Your point was that FF were effectivly forcing people out of Dublin. The train will get you into dublin, problem solved. Once your in Dublin, your in the same boat as anyone living in Dublin.

jrar

Leaving aside the environmental and the polluter pays aspect of this debate, which the Greens were always going to focus on having got the ministerial portfolios they have, the other compelling argument for including road tax in fuel prices has always existed - namely the daft anachronistic left-over British practice of having hundreds of civil servants tied up with issuing coloured pieces of paper each year.

Tens of thousands of people spend valuable time queueing up to receive these coloured discs, which they then display on their car windscreen, so that hundreds of other public servants (Gardai, traffic wardens, etc.) can check them to ensure they are current and valid.

What a bloody waste of everyone's time - the civil servants could instead be freed up to work as civilians within Garda stations or on centralised fine collection duty etc., whilst the Gardai themselves could actually spend their time working on preventing and cracking real crime as distinct from checking to see that no-one is defrauding the Revenue Comms. of their few bob for the road tax !

But then the status quo is how it's always been done so we don't want anything too radical by way of change !

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote: »

Your point was that FF were effectivly forcing people out of Dublin. The train will get you into dublin, problem solved. Once your in Dublin, your in the same boat as anyone living in Dublin.

What! No you're not. You can't bring your car on the train. Everyone living in Dublin has a car.

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

What! No you're not. You can't bring your car on the train. Everyone living in Dublin has a car.

Now thats just a ridiculous statement. If everyone has a car, who is filling the busses/Luas every morning? If anything, some of the people with cars arnt using them.

The idea of useing the train is so your not using your car. The train will get you to Hueston, from there you have the luas in both directions and busses.

what_car

Stekelly wrote: »

I didnt vote (was at the CL final).

Your point was that FF were effectivly forcing people out of Dublin. The train will get you into dublin, problem solved. Once your in Dublin, your in the same boat as anyone living in Dublin.

trains? have you been on one lately? overcrowded, reliable as an Alpha,
loads of parking at train stations (NOT)..........over priced too...

I definately smell a fianna fail supporter, id recognise that bull***** talk anywhere..

:D

Guy:Incognito

what_car wrote: »

trains? have you been on one lately? overcrowded, reliable as an Alpha,
loads of parking at train stations (NOT)..........over priced too...

I definately smell a fianna fail supporter, id recognise that bull***** talk anywhere..

:D

If they are overcrowded (this debate has a;so been doen to death) then people obviously are using them the way I'm talking about.

Why do I have to be a FF supporter to talk sense? It's common sense, if you move to the country you either use your car, or if thats too expensive due to fuel costs, use the train.

what_car

Stekelly wrote: »

If they are overcrowded (this debate has a;so been doen to death) then people obviously are using them the way I'm talking about.

Why do I have to be a FF supporter to talk sense? It's common sense, if you move to the country you either use your car, or if thats too expensive due to fuel costs, use the train.

you still dont get it...:D definately FF.

MarkN

Thank God my car needs to be taxed.. 1100 quid for the year seems great value all of a sudden! I certainly didn't vote for the Greens.

kdevitt

I use the train every day to get to work - on the Maynooth line, and its great - extremely cheap too compared to other european countries.

Its the main reason I'm so pissed off at the thoughts of any increase on my current €1343 road tax liability - I barely use my car, but enjoy driving it at the weekend. Once again motorists are an easy target.

Jimbo

Will the greens ever get real? The use of cars is part of modern day living. There is obviously no way they will ever get rid of them, so why are the punishing us for using them?

mick.fr

Stupid greens that is the only idea they just found to get other means of revenues as tax revenues are decreasing.
And they hide behind ecology stuffs to justify an increase of a well known already rip off tax. Like if they were going to reinvest the money in clean energy things.

They should implement nuclear plants in Ireland once for all, instead of burning petrol like mad to produce electricity like they do in Africa. Wake up Ireland.
Ireland will be cheaper and greener. Stupid politicians.

JHMEG

kdevitt wrote: »

Maynooth line, and its great -

You get on before Leixlip Confey? I use that line too, and while it's better than no train, and cheap (by law, as there is a competing Dublin Bus service), I'm not impressed by the overcrowding, lack of ventilation, and how slow the journey is. I'll only use it if I have to travel during rush hour.

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote: »

It's common sense, if you move to the country you either use your car, or if thats too expensive due to fuel costs, use the train.

Yeah, try telling the lad that lives in Keenagh, Co Longford, and works in Citywest that. You'd get a slap.

kdevitt

JHMEG wrote: »

You get on before Leixlip Confey? I use that line too, and while it's better than no train, and cheap (by law, as there is a competing Dublin Bus service), I'm not impressed by the overcrowding, lack of ventilation, and how slow the journey is.

Nope I get on at Coolmine. Takes me 35 mins to get from my front door to my office, so I don't find it slow, and I can cope with not getting a seat too.

Jimbo

Once again the argument centres around the Dublin commuters. What about the people living and working in the country? How are you supposed to travel from one town to the next, where there is no public transport. Rural people are alot more dependant on cars than anyone else and that will never change

JHMEG

kdevitt wrote: »

Nope I get on at Coolmine. Takes me 35 mins to get from my front door to my office, so I don't find it slow, and I can cope with not getting a seat too.

Somebody told me that during the warmer weather they stop at Drumcondra now and leave the doors open while waiting for a slot in Connolly. The reason being was that the over-crowding is so bad that people were passing out when they used wait further up the line with the doors closed.

mike65

JHMEG I presume you think the adoption of the "euro 5" particulate emission standard will be a great help?

Mike.

JHMEG

mike65 wrote: »

JHMEG I presume you think the adoption of the "euro 5" particulate emission standard will be a great help?

Mike.

Dunno Mike, that's not law till 2011. Hopefully it will. Tho diesel still won't be as clean burning as petrol:

Emissions of the highly noxious pollutants known as nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) from diesel vehicles are currently four to five times higher than for petrol vehicles. The Euro 5 Directive aims to make diesel cars "catch up" - although not completely.
http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/euro-5-emissions-standards-cars/article-133325

kdevitt

JHMEG wrote: »

Somebody told me that during the warmer weather they stop at Drumcondra now and leave the doors open while waiting for a slot in Connolly. The reason being was that the over-crowding is so bad that people were passing out when they used wait further up the line with the doors closed.

They stop at Drumcondra every day - I've seen girls collapse when the train is far from packed, and its been freezing out - more to do with ladies problems that the train imo!

Anyway - its slightly off topic.

Given that theres not a hope of any form of usage tax being applied, Dublin and non-Dublin drivers are both in the same boat. If you need to use your car a lot, you're most definitely getting better value than the likes of me who uses public transport and only occasionally uses the car. Why a 1.4 car doing 20k a year should have to pay less than a 3 litre car doing 2k a year is beyond me.

apple_danish

I must say that I am not at all convinced about the accuracy of the article published in today's Sunday Times (See first post in this thread). It states that changes will take place from Jan '08. However, only last month an article appeared in the Irish Times stating that any changes would be delayed until mid '08 to give the industry time to adjust. See below..

Last Updated: 05/10/2007 16:44
Motor tax reform to be delayed
Charlie Taylor

A plan to tax vehicles on the basis of the emissions rather than on engine size has been delayed until mid-2008.

Changes to the Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) system had been proposed in Budget 2007 and were expected to be introduced on January 1st 2008.

However, Minister for Finance and Tániste Brian Cowen admitted this week that the introduction of the reform is to be postponed in order to give members of the public enough time to get used to the changes.

In a response to parliamentary questions from Fine Gael's environment spokesperson, Phil Hogan, the Minister said public consultation had already taken place and added that a range of possible options were being considered.

"It is desirable that members of the public be given reasonable notice of any changes being introduced. Therefore it is proposed to provide for changes to the VRT system in the 2008 Finance Bill, with an implementation date of around mid 2008," said Mr Cowen.

Mr Hogan said today he was disappointed by the postponement, which would lead to difficulties for both the motor trade and purchasers of new cars.

"One would have assumed that the entry of the Green Party into Government would have expedited the introduction of this environmental reform but instead I find that the measure has been pushed off until the middle of next year."

He continued: "If the Greens have as much influence as they claim, it has to be asked how this important environmental measure has been allowed to slip onto the back burner. Actions speak louder than words."

© 2007 ireland.com

JHMEG

kdevitt wrote: »

They stop at Drumcondra every day - I've seen girls collapse when the train is far from packed, and its been freezing out - more to do with ladies problems that the train imo!

Yeah, OT, but the last person I saw to collapse was a lad in his 30s. This was as we were passing Croke Park.