Gormley tax plans in Sunday Times

milltown

JHMEG wrote: »

Why did you buy a 3.2? You knew before you bought it that the tax was going to be very high?

I too am a planet murdering scumbag with a >2.0L car. Yes, when I bought my car I knew what the tax would be and I also knew that the tax increased exponentially as the cc went up. i.e. Tax on a 1.1 = €227. Do I pay doube that for my 2.2? Do I fun! It's almost three and a half times as much, €755.

When we bought our cars we were under the impression that we were already being punished for having larger engines. Now some tree hugger, bribed into joining FF with the portfolio of his dreams, picks a pretty arbitrary engine size and anything over that, regardless of how little it's used, is a polluter.

MarkN

Lads the whole "you knew it was going to be big money to tax" argument is not really a fair one.

Yes we all knew what the car was going to cost to tax but sitting in front of me is a motor tax form with a nice little box for €1100 to tax my car for the year - IS THAT NOT ENOUGH is what we're saying!!

What we are saying is that you don't buy a 3.0/3.2/4.0L engine car to drive up and down the country to work in (unless your boss is paying for it) - the majority of us do small KMS in them each year (I cycle to work somedays for example and leave a 3.0L car at home) but on the basis of that, why are we going to be forced to pay even more for it when the majority of cars on the road are NOT 3.0L+.

I would say the majority of cars in this country are 1.1L/1.4L/1.6L petrol and 1.9 diesel - they're not the M3s/TVRs/Porsches etc being used at the weekend for God forbid, a bit of driving enjoyment. :rolleyes:

quarryman

skimmed through most of the posts here.

Tax is due up on my 2.5 litre. was planning on getting a new 3 month disc. Should I consider getting a 6 month or 12 month one? I don't really have the cash at the moment really.

Basically, is this increase going to happen in the New Year?

CarLover

As the owner of a large engined vehicle I've been very interested in this debate.

Lots of good posts in here...like the last one from ambro25.

Truth is we're going to get shafted...the Greens are going to go back on their words...and it won't be the last time...and we'll all piss and moan for a while and then accept it. In other words we'll do what we've always done in this country...and vote the same gob****es back into power in another 4 years!

The "Green" agenda is purely a political gimic at this stage...

galwaytt

mike65 wrote: »

Maybe galwaytt was so cheeky as to buy a car he liked rather than be "herded" towards purchasing a tinbox he had no wish to own.

Shocking thought I know

Mike.

Prize for best answer so far. To the rest: yes, I did know the tax would be what it is. I sold an 07 1.8 Tdci Galaxy to buy it, as well, because even with all the maths - my new (to me..) 3.0....is still cheaper to own over the liftetime of the vehicle than my shiny new Galaxy.

I was also naive to think that the GP would be the people who would make a positive contribution - iirc, the phrase 'polluter pays' comes to mind :rolleyes: - because if that were true, then my tax would be coming down. Further justifying my purchase decision, but hey, such is life !

However, like everyone is finding out - the GP is all talk, and the talk so far is trite.....it's ill informed reactionary lip service at best, and downright wrong the rest of the time.

Interesting - in the UK, now well on in emissions based taxing, my 3.0 would cost Stg 199 p.a. to tax.............

slivebloom

JHMEG wrote: »

Diesel fumes are very bad for human health, and promoting diesel right now would not be good. When it's as clean as petrol yes.

Leaving out the fumes issue, I'm not aware of any "larger diesel cars" that can do 70mpg.

what car does 70mpg? the Pruis only does 48mpg. a 407 HDi 1.6l diesel 58mpg, skoda 1.9l about the same...

Vegeta

civic hybrid i believe

ambro25

galwaytt wrote: »

Interesting - in the UK, now well on in emissions based taxing, my 3.0 would cost Stg 199 p.a. to tax.............

Don't go there (what happens in the UK, vs IE) in such a thread as this, as it'll only degenerate

Gotta love the Italian way of doing things... Car Tax going up, eh? Spontenous Go-Slow by joe everybodys in every major city for a week. Lookit here: no more car tax increase!

If Bus drivers can paralize Dublibn over incy-weeny small changes to routes, or other 'interest groups' cut off power as they please, etc, etc. then WhyTF can't car-driving joe everybodys "go slow" several times a week until the GVT backtracks (for it would)?

But nah, not here... talk-the-talk is all that's to be had, unfortunately :cool:

slivebloom wrote: »

what car does 70mpg? the Pruis only does 48mpg. a 407 HDi 1.6l diesel 58mpg, skoda 1.9l about the same...

If my memory's not too shot out yet, the Citroën AX 1,1 D used to do well beyond that, back in the day (reportedly up to 78,5 mpg!)

ondafly

I guess I need to turn my M3 into a taxi or get myself a foreign driving licence, and registration ? Problem solved ?

Is there any sort of organisation for motorists at present ?

JHMEG

slivebloom wrote: »

what car does 70mpg?

Did you notice the photo in my sig (doesn't look like it)? I took that photo. It's my wife's car.

I think it's a bit disingenuous of people who bought big engined cars to be complaining on here now about road tax going up. It doesn't really matter why it's going up, as it was never going to go any other way.

Did any of you need a 3.2 etc? Would a 1.6 not have done A-to-B equally as well? If it's bought for "driving pleasure", well why not keep it for real driving as a track day car and drive it only around Mondello. That way you don't have to pay VRT or road tax etc.

E92

There is a really simple solution to all our moans. When the general election comes, don't vote for either Fianna Fáil or the Greens. I voted for the Greens in the election just gone by, but I didn't vote for them to be FF's arse lickers. I voted for them to get rid of FF, not join them. And I expected that the Greens would know something about taxing cars in an enviornmentally sensitive manner rather than the antiquated system of taxing cars on engine size.

Clearly they know nothing about doing something that makes enviornmental sense, and when you have an Enviornment Minister who has done the highest miles by car of any Minister since the "new" Government was elected, I obviously won't be dumb enough to vote for them ever again.

PhoenixRising

cianclarke wrote: »

I'll never vote greens again, this is a disgrace...

Well frankly, if you voted for the Greens you're now reaping what you've sown. They are a lunatic fringe party with totally incoherent policies who would rather destroy a country's economy and infrastructure to save a few trees. They have zero experience in government (until now), and economic and infrastructural development is at the very bottom of their list of priorities. They want a Green utopia where we all cycle around on bicycles and nobody travels anywhere on holiday unless you can row or swim there. Any self respecting motorist, be it those who must do it out of necessity or simply those who enjoy their cars would never vote for these loons. Rant over.

This proposed tax as many others have said is completely unfair. If the idea is that the polluter pays, which is fair enough, then until we have either an emissions based tax, or increased fuel tax the polluter is NOT paying. They are simply further punishing those already paying insane taxes who have cars with an engine cc above this completely arbitrary value of 1.6l.

Send an email to John Gormless to express your disgust, but more importantly let your FF TD's know how much anger there is about this and hopefully they will reign in this loon until a more coherent and sensible emissions based tax can be introduced.

By the way, I'm all for doing what we can to reduce emissions and save the planet etc.., but it's got to be a reasoned and sensible approach.

CrowdedHouse

Don't worry folks,looks to me like we're going to get higher 'road'(crank it up a few notches)AND then fuel taxes so we'll all be .....er.....happy

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

Did you notice the photo in my sig (doesn't look like it)? I took that photo. It's my wife's car.

"The £11,900 Polo BlueMotion will be Britain's greenest car when it goes on sale, returning 72mpg in the EU Combined test and emitting 102 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre it travels."

Run it on BioDiesel and you cant complain (as much..) about mysterious cancer emissions.

what_car

E92 wrote: »

There is a really simple solution to all our moans. When the general election comes, don't vote for either Fianna Fáil or the Greens. I voted for the Greens in the election just gone by, but I didn't vote for them to be FF's arse lickers. I voted for them to get rid of FF, not join them. And I expected that the Greens would know something about taxing cars in an enviornmentally sensitive manner rather than the antiquated system of taxing cars on engine size.

Clearly they know nothing about doing something that makes enviornmental sense, and when you have an Enviornment Minister who has done the highest miles by car of any Minister since the "new" Government was elected, I obviously won't be dumb enough to vote for them ever again.

the greens are power hungry fekers, get into government at any cost!
look at incinerators, we will be having them after all, the greens changed their tune.. idiots of the highest order

JHMEG

Matt Simis wrote: »

"The £11,900 Polo BlueMotion will be Britain's greenest car when it goes on sale, returning 72mpg in the EU Combined test and emitting 102 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre it travels."

Which will be great, hats off to VW. Probably will be bettered by the similarly sized Honda Jazz-like Hybrid.

Old Jim

dcGT wrote: »

Email sent. Tax on fuel, not on engine.

DC.

Sent the following to the minister.
Can you please explain to the public your reluctance in living up to your promise to move to a "Pay at the Pump" motor tax system?
Removing the current motor tax system and replacing with the equivalent tax on fuel would have numerous benefits:
1 - The more you drive, the more you pay. i.e. "the polluter pays" as is your motto. Is this not fair?
2 - Wider catchment. Current motor tax avoiders and tourists will be caught in the net meaning increased revenues.
3 - Costs of current motor tax system removed. Major cost savings here.
4 - Reduction in garda time spent in detection and processing of motor tax avoidance.

E92

Matt Simis wrote: »

"The £11,900 Polo BlueMotion will be Britain's greenest car when it goes on sale, returning 72mpg in the EU Combined test and emitting 102 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre it travels."

Run it on BioDiesel and you cant complain (as much..) about mysterious cancer emissions.

Actually the Bluemotion 1 does 99 g/km. The ones with things like air con do 102.

And not forgetting the MINI Cooper D which one person managed 85 mpg out of it!



I found this on the MINI Club website

what_car

JHMEG wrote: »

Did you notice the photo in my sig (doesn't look like it)? I took that photo. It's my wife's car.

I think it's a bit disingenuous of people who bought big engined cars to be complaining on here now about road tax going up. It doesn't really matter why it's going up, as it was never going to go any other way.

Did any of you need a 3.2 etc? Would a 1.6 not have done A-to-B equally as well? If it's bought for "driving pleasure", well why not keep it for real driving as a track day car and drive it only around Mondello. That way you don't have to pay VRT or road tax etc.

the book figures for the new civic hybrid are
(l/100km) Combined 4.6 which is 61mpg.. book figure.. it is highly unlikely for a car to exceed the stated mpg in the brochure..

i seriously doubt an 03 civic hybrid does 70mpg. its quite easily to get the mpg calculator to read high like that.. reset the computer and drive easy for a new miles, the reading goes up, then take the pic...

if anything the newer civic would do more mpg... erm and seeing that your selling ur car,,,, makes me think...:D:p

cc

I think instead of penalising bigger cars they should of went for an incentive system by rewarding people for choosing a smaller engine car. Maybe leaving the tax band above 1.6L alone, and reducing the lower bands by, for example, by 15-20%. Would also make it seem like the govt. are not just out to make a few bucks.

JHMEG

E92 wrote: »

And not forgetting the MINI Cooper D which one person managed 85 mpg out of it!

Pah! Drive the Prius with the "pulse and glide" method and get 130mpg!:p

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

Did you notice the photo in my sig (doesn't look like it)? I took that photo. It's my wife's car.

I think it's a bit disingenuous of people who bought big engined cars to be complaining on here now about road tax going up. It doesn't really matter why it's going up, as it was never going to go any other way.

Did any of you need a 3.2 etc? Would a 1.6 not have done A-to-B equally as well? If it's bought for "driving pleasure", well why not keep it for real driving as a track day car and drive it only around Mondello. That way you don't have to pay VRT or road tax etc.

OK, so it's your wife's car - so, what are you driving?

It's not disingenuous - unjust is unjust....John Gormally et all either practice what they preach, or they're just a bunch of liars who did so to get in to power in the first place (shock)....

And seeing as you're so quick to point out other people's failing eyesight, read my last post. As I said, my current 3.0 costs less to own/run than an 07 1.8 Tdci Ford, and cost less to manufacture in terms of emissions as well. For a start it weighs 1400kg, compared to the Ford's 2505kg, so has only a fraction of the road wear impact. It also takes less energy to move, so is more efficient.

So, I have a lighter, more efficient, inflict less wear and tear on the roads, fewer kgCO2 per annum and a more resource sustainable (it's 13 yrs old) car than the 1.8Tdci. Or probably a good few other so-called 'green' cars, so why on earth should I NOT benefit, tax-wise? Why should I be subsidising you, exactly?

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

Pah! Drive the Prius with the "pulse and glide" method and get 130mpg!:p

If you did that on your Advanced Driving Test you'd fail it for coasting.

JHMEG

what_car wrote: »

the book figures for the new civic hybrid

Yeah, book figures exactly. Put thru a specific set of tests and driven a specific way.

Not selling it. Was at the time trying to figure what it was worth. I thought the VRO's valuation was too low, strangely. And it was.

what_car

JHMEG wrote: »

Yeah, book figures exactly. Put thru a specific set of tests and driven a specific way.

Not selling it. Was at the time trying to figure what it was worth. I thought the VRO's valuation was too low, strangely. And it was.

i have to disagree..
brochure figures are normally at the most optimium, with real life figures being lower.

my last car did 52mpg, avensis diesel ...'06

the figures i quoted are for the new model civic hybrid....

as i stated earlier, its quite easy to get the car mpg computer to give high inaccurate figures...

JHMEG

galwaytt wrote: »

OK, so it's your wife's car - so, what are you driving?

Had a 2.0 Accord Coupe. Too heavy on juice and tax, so I downsized to a 1.6 Civic.

galwaytt wrote: »

It's not disingenuous - unjust is unjust....John Gormally et all either practice what they preach,

Look, you're always going to get rode for having a 3.0+ car. It doesn't matter what way they dress it up. Complaining about how it is dressed up is pointless.

galwaytt wrote: »

Or probably a good few other so-called 'green' cars, so why on earth should I NOT benefit, tax-wise? Why should I be subsidising you, exactly?

You would benefit, if you bought a 1.6, a 1.4, or nothing. And how are you subsidising me, implying you are partly paying for something that I have or get?

dcGT

PhoenixRising wrote: »

Send an email to John Gormless to express your disgust, but more importantly let your FF TD's know how much anger there is about this and hopefully they will reign in this loon until a more coherent and sensible emissions based tax can be introduced.

Another good idea. I'll be getting on to my local TD about this and giving them an ear-full, and hopefully there'll be a few email inboxes in the oireachtas today full of 'Motor Tax' emails

There are some great points (rants) being made on this thread, don't let them go to waste

TD contact details here:
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=8016&CatID=138

DC.

JHMEG

what_car wrote: »

i have to disagree..
it doesent do 70mpg. brochure figures are normally at the most optimium, with real life figures being lower.

You're telling me now that you know more about the car than I do? At times it does up to 74mpg. The economy computer has been confirmed over several tanks to be spot on.

Brochure figures are based on EU testing methods, as they have to be, by law.

what_car

JHMEG wrote: »

You're telling me now that you know more about the car than I do? At times it does up to 74mpg. The economy computer has been confirmed over several tanks to be spot on.

Brochure figures are based on EU testing methods, as they have to be, by law.

yes, but book figures are normally very very optimistic. with real life driving, these figures are normally lower.

the prius, doesent do anything near 70mpg.

i drive an accord 2.0 and dont find it hard on juice..

JHMEG

what_car wrote: »

i drive an accord 2.0 and dont find it hard on juice..

So you'd think it silly if I started telling you that your car is heavy on juice?