Perma Shine

Victor_M

I was at the Toys 4 big boys yesterday saw a company called permaGard it's a protective lacquer that get put onto you car after they strip off the old lacquer and wax and polish the car.

Look like they do a good job. In fairness the 00 360 ferrari they had on display looked like it was an 07 paint job.

Has anyone ever used them before? I'm tempted, but it's a bit pricy at 350 Euro per car, but allegedy it gets rid of all the swirl marks and light scratches that are on the paint at the moment, my car is 02 so ther are quite a lot of superficial scratches and swirls on the paint.

NBar

Don't bother as it will wear off, just get the car detailed once a year and maintain it yourself and it will be alot better

Funxy

Excellent product. I use it and all you need to do is wash the car with soap and water and it looks newly waxed! So you don't need to spend hours every weekend waxing and polishing

Neilw

Victor_M wrote: »

I was at the Toys 4 big boys yesterday saw a company called permaGard it's a protective lacquer that get put onto you car after they strip off the old lacquer and wax and polish the car.

Has anyone ever used them before? I'm tempted, but it's a bit pricy at 350 Euro per car, but allegedy it gets rid of all the swirl marks and light scratches that are on the paint at the moment, my car is 02 so ther are quite a lot of superficial scratches and swirls on the paint.

They don't strip the old lacquer, all they do is polish out the swirl marks in the clearcoat layer and then apply a paint sealant.
You could buy a random orbital buffer, abrasive foam pads, compound and paint sealant for less than the cost of what they are charging. Thats what I did! http://www.autopia-carcare.com/son-udmsfx-kit.html

A good paint sealant is around 30euro, and will be enough for 10+ cars.
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Auto_Detailing_Resin_Paint_Sealant_JetSeal_109_p/wac_118_16.htm

If you want to pay 350euro, please give it to me, I'll do a better job!

Neil.

drdre

Victor_M wrote: »

Look like they do a good job. In fairness the 00 360 ferrari they had on display looked like it was an 07 paint job.

Are you sure it was a 360,My friend was working at that stall and it was a 430 on friday.The black one and it was a 07 model from uk.

Victor_M

Could have been, I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to it, I know one of the guys that was working on the stand, and he said he had borrowed it from his mate for the show, so it prob was that 'famous' treasury holding F430 now that I think of it.

Seperate

Neilw wrote: »

They don't strip the old lacquer, all they do is polish out the swirl marks in the clearcoat layer and then apply a paint sealant.
You could buy a random orbital buffer, abrasive foam pads, compound and paint sealant for less than the cost of what they are charging. Thats what I did! http://www.autopia-carcare.com/son-udmsfx-kit.html

A good paint sealant is around 30euro, and will be enough for 10+ cars.
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Auto_Detailing_Resin_Paint_Sealant_JetSeal_109_p/wac_118_16.htm

If you want to pay 350euro, please give it to me, I'll do a better job!

Neil.

They apply a plastic film to the car, according to their website.

As has already been said, its a gimmic. Better results can be had with a machine polish and good seal/wax.

We've done a 99 BMW 318 and a 98 Audi A3 recently, both looked as good as new afterwards.

BMW bonnet before...


BMW Bonnet after....


Entire BMW after full correction, seal and wax....


Audi A3 ... Almost 10 years old...you'd never think it!

Victor_M

Wow, that's a serious improvement.

Any idea how long it would take an amatuer to detail one car like that?

Seperate

We can do it in 6-8 hours depending on the condition of the paint. When i first started doing it, many years ago, i could never get it finished in one day unless i started at 8AM and the weather stayed nice!

I guess, for someone who has never done it before, spread over two days...at least. It takes a while...weeks/months to get the right technique sorted...its a bit like driving itself, you're always learning.

There's so many factors that you need to get right so that you come out with a good finish. The polsih, pad, polisher, sealant, wax, technique and so on. Comes with experience i suppose.

dcGT

Neilw wrote: »

A good paint sealant is around 30euro, and will be enough for 10+ cars.
http://www.chemicalguys.com/Auto_Detailing_Resin_Paint_Sealant_JetSeal_109_p/wac_118_16.htm

I've heard good things about this Jetseal stuff. Anyone know where I could buy it? Can't find anything on eBay and that site doesn't seem to deliver to Ireland.

Cheers,

DC.

Seperate

dcGT wrote: »

I've heard good things about this Jetseal stuff. Anyone know where I could buy it? Can't find anything on eBay and that site doesn't seem to deliver to Ireland.

Cheers,

DC.

CarWashnWax.co.uk are UK distributors for Chemical Guys. They have Jetseal down as a special order item.

I have got an order in with Chemical Guys myself (i will be Irish Distributor) which is due soon...Jetseal wasnt on the order form!

I can, however, recommend Poorboys EX or EX-P. http://www.poorboysworld.com/ex-sealant.htm - use EX-P if you're giving it a machine polish before hand.

TomMc

Permashine fills in and not removes swirl marks first (stage 1), then seals the paint with an acrylic-ptfe sealant (stage 2). The wetting agents suspended in the sealant give the wet look, not the paint itself. The high gloss will fade within a year and all you have left is a layer of protection. The swirls and scratches will reappear when it does eventually wear off. If you do not wash a treated car properly, it will inflict more swirls very quickly. The sealant once marked is very hard to treat or repair, bar stripping the lot off and starting again. The materials of PS are sold in the UK for about £30. Big mark up for the boss.

Carwashnwax are UK distributors for Chemical Guys but Cleanandshiny have exclusivity on it at least to sell to the public in the UK. David of CWW will sell it also on the QT. Just don't let either of them diddle you on postage. I tried JS, it is good if a little too plasticy for my tastes. It has been overhyped.

Seperate, very good work but if I was you I would clear it with the mods before you start promoting your own business on this forum. I would also advise you to remove certain photos off your site taken from DW and PB or you could find yourself blacklisted from the detailing community.;)

drdre

Victor_M wrote: »

Could have been, I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to it, I know one of the guys that was working on the stand, and he said he had borrowed it from his mate for the show, so it prob was that 'famous' treasury holding F430 now that I think of it.

Yep, Do you know cooney

Victor_M

drdre wrote: »

Yep, Do you know cooney

Yeah.


Jasus 2 days is a bit much to dedicate to getting the car nice and shiny.

So this permashine, do they do all of this detailing work (buffing and polishing)before they apply the permagard to the paint? It's hardly just a case of buying the E30 worth of materials, I presume a good portion of the cost is attributed to the manual labour involved. If it really takes 2 days for a non pro punter like myself, then 350 doesn't seem like too bad value.

"Permashine fills in and not removes swirl marks first (stage 1), then seals the paint with an acrylic-ptfe sealant (stage 2). The wetting agents suspended in the sealant give the wet look, not the paint itself. The high gloss will fade within a year and all you have left is a layer of protection. The swirls and scratches will reappear when it does eventually wear off. If you do not wash a treated car properly, it will inflict more swirls very quickly. The sealant once marked is very hard to treat or repair, bar stripping the lot off and starting again. The materials of PS are sold in the UK for about £30. Big mark up for the boss."

It comes with a 3 year waranty, so surely if what you say is true, I could just go and get them to reapply the product every 12months after it fades!

TomMc

Victor_M wrote: »

Yeah.


Jasus 2 days is a bit much to dedicate to getting the car nice and shiny.

So this permashine, do they do all of this detailing work (buffing and polishing)before they apply the permagard to the paint? It's hardly just a case of buying the E30 worth of materials, I presume a good portion of the cost is attributed to the manual labour involved. If it really takes 2 days for a non pro punter like myself, then 350 doesn't seem like too bad value.

It comes with a 3 year waranty, so surely if what you say is true, I could just go and get them to reapply the product every 12months after it fades!

Neilw mentions 2 days because he is actually on about polishing out the flaws, not covering them up. This is extremely tedious when using an orbital polisher and could take anything from 10 to 20 hours work for one person alone. A rotary polisher will do the job alot quicker but don't let anyone near your car with one unless they are highly skilled and use a paint depth guage as well to ensure your car has enough paint to play with. Remove too many microns of paint and it could result in premature clear coat failure or worse still burn through the paint altogether. Repaint time.

Permashine would wash and maybe clay (although I doubt it) your car before applying the sealants. As I said earlier the first polish they use cleanses paint and also fills in swirl marks, it does not polish them out. Then they seal the lot with a sealant. Don't think either because it costs E350 it must be special. The stuff does only cost approx £30 sterling but it can be hard to get hold of as it is only sold to agents not the public. It is much the same type of product as Toughseal which Eurochem sell for similar money. I know of a few places that sell it for £30 in the UK. The rights to PS in Ireland is owned by a certain Dublin car dealership. They get two guys (probably on not much more minimum wage) to apply it, pay rent on a premises and the boss pockets the difference. Nice little earner if you can get it. To exhibit at any show in the RDS or wherever costs a small fortune, so a business like this would need to be make very large margins to warrant this marketing expense.

Evo Mag had a long-term test Ferrari treated in the UK and they felt the stuff have lost its edge after only 8 months. AFAIK the guarantee in the UK is only 2 years and they recommend an annual inspection. If profits are high they can afford to retreat a few cars every so often from the many. Knowing that the people who get this stuff on their cars, would not be that well informed to know sealant from snake oil, or be that likely to pursue a guarantee or claim even if they did. See the bigger the lie or BS in this country the more people believe it.


I saw this recently :rolleyes:

They meant to say never polish or wax again and what do they say, never wash again for 3 years.

There are alot of sales people in the motor trade (Not Ned78, Colm so keep your shirts on guys) selling products they have not got a clue about. And yet the public fall for their sales patter, time and time again.

Owen

TomMc wrote: »

There are alot of sales people in the motor trade (Not Ned78, Colm so keep your shirts on guys) that have not got a clue.

lol

Seriously though, I'm paranoid about the paint finish on my own car and bike. I can't understand people who brush wash cars, and I'm reading this thread with interest to see what people recommend.

TomMc

ned78 wrote: »

lol

Seriously though, I'm paranoid about the paint finish on my own car and bike. I can't understand people who brush wash cars, and I'm reading this thread with interest to see what people recommend.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7598756069207401372&q=showcargarage.com

Seperate

ned78 wrote: »

lol

Seriously though, I'm paranoid about the paint finish on my own car and bike. I can't understand people who brush wash cars, and I'm reading this thread with interest to see what people recommend.

I cringe everytime i pass a petrol station and see a decent car go through the rollers. Even the sponge, which is most peoples weapon when washing the car, can have a bad effect on paint. Lambswool mit and two buckets is the way to go. That video Tom posted is a good walkthrough!

Matt Simis

dcGT wrote: »

I've heard good things about this Jetseal stuff. Anyone know where I could buy it? Can't find anything on eBay and that site doesn't seem to deliver to Ireland.

Cheers,

DC.

Well you can get Carlack and Chemical Guys stuff from:
www.smartcarcare.ie


Fast service, knows his stuff IMO.

Eurochem

TomMc wrote: »

Neilw mentions 2 days because he is actually on about polishing out the flaws, not covering them up. This is extremely tedious when using an orbital polisher and could take anything from 10 to 20 hours work for one person alone. A rotary polisher will do the job alot quicker but don't let anyone near your car with one unless they are highly skilled and use a paint depth guage as well to ensure your car has enough paint to play with. Remove too many microns of paint and it could result in premature clear coat failure or worse still burn through the paint altogether. Repaint time.

Permashine would wash and maybe clay (although I doubt it) your car before applying the sealants. As I said earlier the first polish they use cleanses paint and also fills in swirl marks, it does not polish them out. Then they seal the lot with a sealant. Don't think either because it costs E350 it must be special. The stuff does only cost approx £30 sterling but it can be hard to get hold of as it is only sold to agents not the public. It is much the same type of product as Toughseal which Eurochem sell for similar money. I know of a few places that sell it for £30 in the UK. The rights to PS in Ireland is owned by a certain Dublin car dealership. They get two guys (probably on not much more minimum wage) to apply it, pay rent on a premises and the boss pockets the difference. Nice little earner if you can get it. To exhibit at any show in the RDS or wherever costs a small fortune, so a business like this would need to be make very large margins to warrant this marketing expense.

Evo Mag had a long-term test Ferrari treated in the UK and they felt the stuff have lost its edge after only 8 months. AFAIK the guarantee in the UK is only 2 years and they recommend an annual inspection. If profits are high they can afford to retreat a few cars every so often from the many. Knowing that the people who get this stuff on their cars, would not be that well informed to know sealant from snake oil, or be that likely to pursue a guarantee or claim even if they did. See the bigger the lie or BS in this country the more people believe it.


I saw this recently :rolleyes:

They meant to say never polish or wax again and what do they say, never wash again for 3 years.

There are alot of sales people in the motor trade (Not Ned78, Colm so keep your shirts on guys) selling products they have not got a clue about. And yet the public fall for their sales patter, time and time again.

Hi Tommc
We do sell Toughseal direct to Ireland if this is of interest to you. If i can be of any assistance at all please call our UK sales office.

thanks
Stuart
www.eurochem.co.uk
P.S Not trying to sell stuff via this board, just responding to a post.