Serie A suspended again?

PHB

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov11g.html

nter-Lazio and all Sunday’s Serie A games could be called off after a Lazio fan was killed – apparently by a policeman – during a fight with Juventus supporters.

Initial reports are low on details at the moment, but it is believed two groups of Ultras clashed when they crossed paths at a motorway service station in Badia al Pino, Arezzo.

A Lazio fan was killed during the fighting, but it is currently claimed this was an accident caused by police officers.

A shot rang out to try to distract the group and the news agencies are suggesting the bullet struck the Lazio supporter.

An emergency meeting is currently being held between Lega Calcio President Antonio Matarrese and police chief Antonio Manganelli to decide whether to suspend Inter-Lazio or possibly the entire Week 12 fixture list.

There are fears that if it is confirmed a fan was killed by police officers, the tension between them and the Ultras around Italy will rise to dangerous levels this weekend.

Arezzo DA Vincenzo Giacobbe released a statement on the tragic incident. “We are ascertaining the chain of events and how this happened. We are sorry about this fatality.

“Once we have confirmed the responsibility, whoever it was will be rigorously prosecuted.”

Lazio President Claudio Lotito also confirmed that the San Siro match against Inter could be called off.

“Lazio are ready to step back and not play. We have informed the authorities who will now make the opportune decisions,” said the patron.

dor83

Only the Inter V Lazio game has been called off, the rest will start 15 mins late. Another sad day for Calcio, this really wont go down well with the Ultras and if he was shot by the police I can see a lot of truoble over it. http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov11i.html

machiavellianme

Terrible news. Poor chap. Rip.

Its only a game, this is just getting ridiculous. It wont be long till Serie A is closed off to the public for good.

evad_lhorg

this will give Juve a chance to get within 1 point.

tdv

Did anyone else see what just happened in the Milan match? A bunch of Crazed Atlanta fans deystroyed the protective glass things they have & were going fu*king crazy for some reason. Then Doni & some of the Atlanta players went over to the them & tried to reason with them.

All the players have gone back to the dressing room.

godtabh

Where Juve and Lazio fans at it?

Melion

This is getting beyond a joke, people give out about english fans being hooligans and scum etc. But they are nothing compared to the freaks that go to Serie A games, its only a matter of time before the whole league is dropped

godtabh

Melion wrote: »

This is getting beyond a joke, people give out about english fans being hooligans and scum etc. But they are nothing compared to the freaks that go to Serie A games, its only a matter of time before the whole league is dropped

On their day they are just as bad as each other.

Having been to both I'd much rather go to an Italian game

Melion

When was the last time there was a death at an english league game? When was the last time a game was called off due to scumbag fans?

This kind of thing happens far too often in Italy.

Mr. Presentable

kearnsr wrote: »

Where Juve and Lazio fans at it?

My contact in Italy tells me Lazio fans in two cars travelling North to Milan happened upon a car with Juventus fans (not from Turin) travelling to Parma at an "Autogrill" - Service stop. Some words were exchanged, the Juve fans ran away and called the police. It seems that a policeman discharged his gun accidentally hitting the Lazio fan.

The victim is Gabriele Sandri. 26 years old. He is the DJ and animator of the popular Rome discotheque "Piper", and he died while he was hit with a bullet while sitting at the back seat of the Renault Clio in which he was travelling together with three others.

There is trouble in Bergamo at the Atalanta - Milan game, with both groups of supporters combining, in and out of the stadium, to attack the police.

In Milan, Inter and Lazio fans are combining at the train station and the stadium to attack the police.

dor83

I agree with Kearnsr, having been to both and met these "freaks" you refer to I've never seen a bit of trouble, even when opositions fans have passed by the Inter fans queing to enter the Curva Nord. This did'nt actualy happen at a football match, it just happened to involve football fans.

Mr. Presentable

Melion wrote: »

When was the last time there was a death at an english league game? When was the last time a game was called off due to scumbag fans?

This kind of thing happens far too often in Italy.

This wasn't at a game. It wasn't anywhere near a game.

Guy:Incognito

nipplenuts wrote: »

My contact in Italy tells me Lazio fans in two cars travelling North to Milan happened upon a car with Juventus fans (not from Turin) travelling to Parma at an "Autogrill" - Service stop. Some words were exchanged, the Juve fans ran away and called the police. It seems that a policeman discharged his gun accidentally hitting the Lazio fan.

The victim is Gabriele Sandri. 26 years old. He is the DJ and animator of the popular Rome discotheque "Piper", and he died while he was hit with a bullet while sitting at the back seat of the Renault Clio in which he was travelling together with three others.

There is trouble in Bergamo at the Atalanta - Milan game, with both groups of supporters combining, in and out of the stadium, to attack the police.

In Milan, Inter and Lazio fans are combining at the train station and the stadium to attack the police.

Ah, you gotta love group idiot mentality.

Melion

Im talking about the Atalanta - Milan game

PHB

I can't help but side with the fans who are confronting the police. This sort of situation seems to be ludicrous but indicative of the type of policing that they give to football fans. I've had two encounteres with Italian police while at a football stadium and each time they've been absolutely terrible, only worsening the situation.

This shouldn't result in the shutting down of the league, it should result in the police really re-examining their policies in terms of how they deal with football fans.

Mr. Presentable

Stekelly wrote: »

Ah, you gotta love group idiot mentality.

Trouble is, this could go on now until the end of the season, whether it ends naturally or is suspended, with fans combining to attack the police at most games.

evad_lhorg

match has been abandoned now

Guy:Incognito

PHB wrote: »

I can't help but side with the fans who are confronting the police. This sort of situation seems to be ludicrous but indicative of the type of policing that they give to football fans. I've had two encounteres with Italian police while at a football stadium and each time they've been absolutely terrible, only worsening the situation.

This shouldn't result in the shutting down of the league, it should result in the police really re-examining their policies in terms of how they deal with football fans.

How can you side with fans attacking police? It's an idiot thing to do that should be punishable by jail time. The only info we have is from the above post where the gun was fired accidentaly. how is that cause for mass attacks on police hundreds of miles away?

The police have been visibly heavy handed, yes, but if Utd hadnt played Roma last year, you would'nt give a crap.

dor83

PHB is spot on, the Italian police need to be held accountable for what has happened. Who actually believes this was an accident? the Italian police do'nt know how to Police football matches, they are afraid of the Ultras and turn on Innocent fans too much, just look at what happened at the Roma V Utd game last year and compare that to the Rome derby hat was abandoned, the police would'nt enter the Curva to control the Roma fans.

Guy:Incognito

dor83 wrote: »

PHB is spot on, the Italian police need to be held accountable for what has happened. Who actually believes this was an accident? the Italian police do'nt know how to Police football matches, they are afraid of the Ultras and turn on Innocent fans too much, just look at what happened at the Roma V Utd game last year.

Are they accountable for someone throwing the bomb into the police car last season? What action by the police justifies killing them?

Maybe the police have had enough of all the **** and hooliganism and are getting tough.

Melion

These people are scum, anyone who attacks police is scum in my eyes. They are there to do a job, just like we all do every day of the week. What gives italian "fans" the right to just attack them?

PHB

Actually my bad experience started with the Italian police was at the AC Milan game 3 years ago.

Let's re-cap what happened:
There was a argument at a gas station
The Juve fan called the police
The Police arrived, fired a warning shot, and killed somebody sitting in a car.

That person should be fired from his job, and prosecuted for criminal negligence. End of.

How can I side with fans attacking the police? I don't want them to do it, I'd much rather if there was a better way, but to be honest, the police have created this situation. They adopt idiotic policies in relation to policing. They create trouble rather than stop it. The policies they pursue are a disgrace. This has resulted in somebody dying, and it's not going to be the last.

There are some fans in Italy that are despicable, and everybody knows of the amount of stabbings that happen on European visits for many teams, but the majority of the fans are just fans, and the police are putting them in danger due to their idiotic policies. The people who attacked the police with a car bomb are a disgrace, I hope they rot in jail for the rest of their lives, but I don't think this is the same. The police are not on the side of the fans, the normal fans, they are on their own side.

The police have created this situation, and now they are reaping what they sow.

dor83

What gave them the right to shoot a football fan who may not even have been involved in any trouble?

Mr. Presentable

dor83 wrote: »

What gave them the right to shoot a football fan who may not even have been involved in any trouble?

Current news is that it was an accident

dor83

nipplenuts wrote: »

Current news is that it was an accident

I know but how could a warning shot hit somebody who was supposedly sitting in a car? That was some warning shot.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

I can't help but side with the fans who are confronting the police. This sort of situation seems to be ludicrous but indicative of the type of policing that they give to football fans. I've had two encounteres with Italian police while at a football stadium and each time they've been absolutely terrible, only worsening the situation.

This shouldn't result in the shutting down of the league, it should result in the police really re-examining their policies in terms of how they deal with football fans.

If the "fans" just walked away there wouldnt be this problem. If the "fans" werent in the middle of it there be no reason for the police to get heavy handed.

Stekelly wrote: »

How can you side with fans attacking police? It's an idiot thing to do that should be punishable by jail time. The only info we have is from the above post where the gun was fired accidentaly. how is that cause for mass attacks on police hundreds of miles away?

.

Totally agree with you

dor83 wrote: »

P

the Italian police do'nt know how to Police football matches,

This wasn't at a football match. It was at a service station.

godtabh

dor83 wrote: »

I know but how could a warning shot hit somebody who was supposedly sitting in a car? That was some warning shot.

Rickoshea (cant spelL!)

Melion

rickoshea

poor 2fm dj being blamed for italian fans dying

PHB

The sort of situation is indicative of how the Italian police deal with football fans. Hit them, punch them, shoot them first, ask questions later. This is the reason stuff like this happens.

Can you imagine the idea of an English policeman firing a warning shot in order to disperse football fans? That would never ever happen, and if it did, there would be outrage and rightly so.

Mr. Presentable

Another update from Italy:

With Inter-Lazio already postponed, 10 minutes after the start of the
game, Atalanta fans forced the referee to abandon also the
Atalanta-Milan game. They did so by breaking the plexi-glass which
seperates the fans from the pitch. Atalanta fans had nobody to stop
them after it had been decided by the authorities that to avoid
further trouble to the pre-game clashes, police will not be present
in the stadium (the idea was to avoid the clashes betweens fans and police).

Meanwhile, the police chief of Arezzo has reportedly confirmed that
the Lazio fan was killed by a shot fired from a police officer. The
police chief said that it was an unlucky episode in which the police
intervened to seperate two groups of people who were "fighting" so as
to prevent the arguments from having more serious consequences.
Apparently the police that went on the scene did not even recognize
that the two groups were football "fans" but thought they were two
"normal" groups of people.

Guy:Incognito

So there was no police in the ground? whats the excuse of the "fans" for smashing the plexiglass and fighting? That wasnt to get at the police, it was just scumbags fighting.

Mr. Presentable

Stekelly wrote: »

So there was no police in the ground? whats the excuse of the "fans" for smashing the plexiglass and fighting? That wasnt to get at the police, it was just scumbags fighting.

So it seems.

tdv

Maybe they just wanted to get a Ronaldo autograph really really badly.

PHB

Stekelly wrote: »

So there was no police in the ground? whats the excuse of the "fans" for smashing the plexiglass and fighting? That wasnt to get at the police, it was just scumbags fighting.

It's not one or the other, it's both. Personally, I expect more from the police, they are after all, the police. Instead, they're not much better than the holligans.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

It's not one or the other, it's both. Personally, I expect more from the police, they are after all, the police. Instead, they're not much better than the holligans.

Your blaming the police for the fans breaking the plexi glass? Or in general?

How would you suggest the police handle it? "Excuse me kind sir would you mind kindly stop breaking the glass like a good old lad?"

Mr. Presentable

kearnsr wrote: »

Your blaming the police for the fans breaking the plexi glass? Or in general?

For all the world's ills, by the look of it.

I'd be interested to know, PHB, what your personal beef is with police?

PHB

kearnsr wrote: »

Your blaming the police for the fans breaking the plexi glass? Or in general?

In general. There's no excuse for breaking the plexi glass. Confrontations will the police however are perfectly understandable.

I have no personal beef with the police, just the Italian police and their attitude towards fans. They don't treat them like people, they treat them like things that have to be beaten into submission. If you want an answer about how well that policy is working out, well have a look at Serie A.

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote: »

In general. There's no excuse for breaking the plexi glass. Confrontations will the police however are perfectly understandable.

I have no personal beef with the police, just the Italian police and their attitude towards fans. They don't treat them like people, they treat them like things that have to be beaten into submission. If you want an answer about how well that policy is working out, well have a look at Serie A.

I won't contest their crude and heavy handed treatment of scumbags who cause trouble. But they're not really fans though.

PHB

It's not just scumbags though that they treat badly, it's all football fans.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

Confrontations will the police however are perfectly understandable.

Why are the perfectly understandable? I've never had a confrontation with the police. The majority of the 80,000 who go see Inter or AC at the weekends dont. A small few do get involved and then due to mob mentality (as seen today) get involved. Police do need to go in there knocking heads so it doesnt spread. You've nothing to worry about if you just walk away

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

It's not just scumbags though that they treat badly, it's all football fans.

I've never been treated badly by Italian police

PHB

kearnsr wrote: »

Police do need to go in there knocking heads so it doesnt spread. You've nothing to worry about if you just walk away

yeh? How's that policy working out for them so far? The whole go in and beat the **** out of them until they shutup? Working well? Lots of lives saved has there been?

Oh, the idea that you've nothing to worry about if you walk away is just hilarious. That isn't even the case in England. Hell last month a United fan got pushed by the police in the back fell badly and is paralysed because of it. What was he doing? Nothing.

Mr. Presentable

Tonights Roma - Cagliari game is now off amid reports Lazio fans have agreed with Roma fans to meet at Olympico and "protest"

There were banners again today demanding revenge for the death of a protestor at the G8 in Genoa at the hands of police. If this is motivation for the Ultras, it has less and less to do with football.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

yeh? How's that policy working out for them so far? The whole go in and beat the **** out of them until they shutup? Working well? Lots of lives saved has there been?

Oh, the idea that you've nothing to worry about if you walk away is just hilarious. That isn't even the case in England. Hell last month a United fan got pushed by the police in the back fell badly and is paralysed because of it. What was he doing? Nothing.

The shooting wasn't at a game it was separate and appears to be an accident.

There was no police in with the Napoli fans today and looked what happened.

I'm not aware of any police related deaths in side stadiums and its very difficult to quantity how many lives could have been saved as a result of feeling a few idiots a good beating.

Watching Ajax a few years a go away fans got in with the home fans and the police came in. A few charges and the idiots got the message. I stayed clear and didnt get involved. You look for trouble trouble will find you.

PHB

Yeh sounds like a good theory, how's it working out in Italy so far?

It appears to have been an accident. Yeh, I'd imagine the guy didn't actually mean to shoot somebody. But the fact that he went for his gun says it all.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

Yeh sounds like a good theory, how's it working out in Italy so far?

It appears to have been an accident. Yeh, I'd imagine the guy didn't actually mean to shoot somebody. But the fact that he went for his gun says it all.

But this has nothing to do with how stadiums are policed. This was an incident that occurred at a service station no where near a stadium after police were called to an altercation that they didnt know involved football fans till after what happened.

That my take on it but you seem to have a far different understanding of it and dont appear be taking on board what has been said here unless you know something different?

PHB

No seriously, let's talk about how stadiums are policed. This whole going in and beating people up policy, how's it working out?
How well is stadium peace maintained? This whole beating up people to keep them in line, how well as it worked out in Italy?

---

The incident that occured at a service station was separate, but I'm not gona buy the whole they didn't know it was football fans ****e. Of course they are gona say that, if they didn't, they create a bigger riot. It might actually be one decision they got right today.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

No seriously, let's talk about how stadiums are policed. This whole going in and beating people up policy, how's it working out?
How well is stadium peace maintained? This whole beating up people to keep them in line, how well as it worked out in Italy?

---

The incident that occured at a service station was separate, but I'm not gona buy the whole they didn't know it was football fans ****e. Of course they are gona say that, if they didn't, they create a bigger riot. It might actually be one decision they got right today.

So whats your solution? You havent put one forward yet (unless I've missed it).

As fat as I can see that tactics used in side stadiums is the same ones used to control crowds/riots/demonstrations around the world regardless of there location and reason for being

tdv

More than 200 fans attacked police barraks in Rome according to Sky News.

Dave!

Sky News say a police station in Rome was attacked by 200 football fans. Can't find anything online though, so wait and see...

godtabh

tdv wrote: »

More than 200 fans attacked police barraks in Rome according to Sky News.

DaveMcG wrote: »

Sky News say a police station in Rome was attacked by 200 football fans. Can't find anything online though, so wait and see...

snap