Serie A suspended again?

An Citeog

A few photos from today.

http://www.elpais.com/fotogaleria/Jornada/negra/calcio/4626-1/elpgal/

Things are just kicking off and I can only see them getting worse. Looks lie Serie A will be suspended for another few weeks.

PHB

kearnsr wrote: »

So whats your solution? You havent put one forward yet (unless I've missed it).

As fat as I can see that tactics used in side stadiums is the same ones used to control crowds/riots/demonstrations around the world regardless of there location and reason for being

Look at England. They had undoubtably the worst holligan problem, they solved it. Aggressive banning orders for those who step out of line. Stewards in the stadiums instead of Police. Treating fans like people instead of like things to beat in order to control.

godtabh

PHB wrote: »

Look at England. They had undoubtably the worst holligan problem, they solved it. Aggressive banning orders for those who step out of line. Stewards in the stadiums instead of Police. Treating fans like people instead of like things to beat in order to control.

I'm not sure if the holligan elemet in italin football was ever that big. Ultras have lots of power but I dont think they had the firm attiduted of english fans and meeting up before games for fights and ambushes. It is being coming a problem now. But if you dont stop it here it will get worse before it gets better. A combination of whats going on in the stadiums and banning orders is what is needed

The thugs that cause these problems arent fans

PiE

PHB wrote: »

It's not just scumbags though that they treat badly, it's all football fans.

In fairness it's not like the troublemakers walk around with neon glowing arrows proclaiming their scumbaggery (well, they might have flares but even that isn't strange at a Serie A game).

Unearthly

PHB wrote: »

Look at England. They had undoubtably the worst holligan problem, they solved it. Aggressive banning orders for those who step out of line. Stewards in the stadiums instead of Police. Treating fans like people instead of like things to beat in order to control.

and ticket prices have rised in recent years outpricing your average yob unlike in Italy where nearly anyone can afford a ticket

ShiverinEskimo

These fans that cause the trouble are there for a fight. They are the equivalent of the drunken irish culchie you find goes out, gets drunk and goes fightin just the thrill of it. All the Italian police are doing with their policies and tactics are giving them the fight they crave.

The fact that that poor guy was killed is a travesty - the rioters would use any excuse to riot and this just happens to sit perfectly with their underlying motives. Now they can do it and feel justified.

Honestly though, who fires warning shots with live rounds in public. Stupid stupid thing to do. And a mistake that has just cost him everything he had as a life up to that point.

godtabh

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

They are the equivalent of the drunken irish culchie you find goes out, gets drunk and goes fightin just the thrill of it. All the Italian police are doing with their policies and tactics are giving them the fight they crave.

why slay off the culchies? That could apply to any one

leninbenjamin

The Italian policeman who fired the shot that killed a football fan on Sunday has said his gun went off as he ran to stop rival supporters fighting.

from the BBC

well that confirms it's an accident. doubtful this will help anything though over there, instead it'll just fuel an anti gun lobby somewhere...

godtabh

Cop who killed fan expresses his regret

The policeman who accidentally shot and killed a Lazio fan in Italy yesterday has spoken of his regret over the incident.

Click here
The officer, who was trying to quell a fight between Lazio and Juventus fans at a motorway service station near Arezzo, confirmed the bullet was fired in error.

The shot killed Gabriele Sandri, a 26-year-old disc jockey.

'I didn't look at anything, I didn't point my gun at anyone. I was at least 200 metres away, how could I have done that?' the unnamed officer told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

'The first shot I fired was in the air and the second was fired when I was running, it was an accident. I know now, this is the end for me.

'I have destroyed two families, that of the man and mine.'

The autopsy on Sandri will be carried out today while police chiefs have already opened an investigation.

Arezzo assistant police commissioner Giuseppe Priore said: 'No-one intends to cover for the agent.'

News of the shooting prompted violence on the terraces at the game between Atalanta and AC Milan while, later in the day, fans in Rome armed with batons and stones attacked one of the police units in the vicinity of the Stadio Olimpico before raiding the headquarters of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI).

The CONI security guards, who were unarmed, had to barricade themselves inside the building while waiting for back-up.

After one of the worst days of football-related violence in Italy, the president of the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) is preparing to announce major changes today.

'It is a day in which there will be major institutional steps taken,' announced president Giancarlo Abete on RAI radio.

'After meeting with the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry for Youth Policies and Sports, there will be the chance for all components of football to meet.'

Abete remained tight-lipped on any likely outcomes, saying it 'would be hazardous and incorrect' to speculate at this time, but already there are fears that Italian football may be suspended.

However, Abete does not believe closing down the sport is the right answer.

'The way of resolving problems is not by eliminating the possibility of allowing football to live in a normal way,' he added.

'We cannot believe - and I refuse to do so - that the only way to respond to the problems in our society is simply by prohibition.

'That is not my way of interpreting civil needs.'

Abete believes yesterday's events are in stark contrast to what happened when policeman Filippo Raciti was killed after violence broke out at the Sicilian derby match between Catania and Palermo nine months ago.

He said: 'Catania was an organised battle against the police, but this case has nothing to link it to football.

'A football fan has died and this has provoked an attack against the institutions which are not in any way acceptable.

'All of this country should be grateful for what our police force is doing and you cannot demonise their work.

If the suspend the leauge all hell could break lose

godtabh

Italian minister calls for long calcio lay-off

MILAN, Nov 12 ( Reuters) - Italian Sports Minister Giovanna Melandri has called on the soccer authorities to suspend league programmes for 'the next few weeks' after rioting on Sunday followed the shooting dead of a Lazio fan by a police officer.

Click here
'I have asked the soccer authorities if there is the possibility of a strong gesture, in particular the suspension of the championships for the next few weeks,' she told reporters on Monday.

The soccer federation is set to announce a decision after a meeting later on Monday.

ShiverinEskimo

kearnsr wrote: »

why slay off the culchies? That could apply to any one

By strict definition I'm the culchie. But yea you're right - any Ignorant drunken fool at home whose number one hobby is drinkin and number 2 hobby is fightin. Everyone knows an example.

Mitch Connor

in a related matter, Man United are offering any fans who don't fancy the away CL trip to Roma a refund.

OhNoYouDidn't

nipplenuts wrote: »

Current news is that it was an accident

shooting across a six lane motorway at people who may or may not have been in a pagger, missing them completly and hitting a random passer by sitting in a car isnt an accident.

there is a lot of smug posting on this topic. cops murder football fan, football fans react. its that simple.

OhNoYouDidn't

kearnsr wrote: »

You've nothing to worry about if you just walk away

Which is exactly what Gabriele Sandri was doing when a police man shot him in the neck. Grow up.

The policeman has been charged with manslaughter and all the violence is a direct response to his actions.

godtabh

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

people who may or may not have been in a pagger

Whats that meant to mean?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

shooting across a six lane motorway at people who may or may not have been in a pagger, missing them completly and hitting a random passer by sitting in a car isnt an accident.

Accidnet:-

1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap:

Sounds like an accident to me. He doesnt appear to have done it on purpose. Its an accident that could have been provented certainly

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Which is exactly what Gabriele Sandri was doing when a police man shot him in the neck. Grow up.

The policeman has been charged with manslaughter and all the violence is a direct response to his actions.

So he has been charged with manslaughter. Big differene between that an murder.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

cops murder football fan

its that simple.

Doesnt appear to be that simple. After all one of your post says murder the other says manslaughter. Make your mind up

PHB

There's accidents and there's accidents.

This happened because the Italian police decided to fire a warning shot in order to stop football violence and he accidently killed somebody.

It's not like it was a car crash or somebody. This happened because the gun decided the best course of action was to use his gun to maintain control. There are accidents in the US every single day that don't happen in Ireland. This accident would never happen in England or Spain, only Italy.

It was manslaughter, albeit through negligence.

OhNoYouDidn't

kearnsr wrote: »

Whats that meant to mean?

it is far from clear was there even a fight to begin with. and Gabriele Sandri was most certainly nowhere near it.

kearnsr wrote: »

Accidnet:-

1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap:

Sounds like an accident to me. He doesnt appear to have done it on purpose. Its an accident that could have been provented certainly

He purposely opened fire into a carpark in the middle of the day from over 100 yards at a group who may or may not have been fighting. That is at best criminal negligence and resulted in an innocent death.

Taking a contrary position on an internet forum for the sake of it is one thing, but someone died here. Mishap? Cop on.

kearnsr wrote: »

So he has been charged with manslaughter. Big differene between that an murder.

Doesnt appear to be that simple. After all one of your post says murder the other says manslaughter. Make your mind up

its murder to me, manslaughter to the Italian authorities. he shot an innocent man in the neck and incited thousands onto the streets in anger.

OhNoYouDidn't

PHB wrote: »

There's accidents and there's accidents.

This happened because the Italian police decided to fire a warning shot in order to stop football violence and he accidently killed somebody.

It's not like it was a car crash or somebody. This happened because the gun decided the best course of action was to use his gun to maintain control. There are accidents in the US every single day that don't happen in Ireland. This accident would never happen in England or Spain, only Italy.

It was manslaughter, albeit through negligence.

A horizontal two bullet warning shot?

And we are 100% certain there was a row happening how?

godtabh

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

He purposely opened fire into a carpark in the middle of the day from over 100 yards at a group who may or may not have been fighting. That is at best criminal negligence and resulted in an innocent death.

Again thats not murder

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

its murder to me, manslaughter to the Italian authorities. he shot an innocent man in the neck and incited thousands onto the streets in anger.

Make your mind up. Its one or the other for you

Taking a contrary position on an internet forum for the sake of it is one thing, but someone died here. Mishap? Cop on.

Because I dont have the same opninon as you I need to cop on?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

A horizontal two bullet warning shot?

How do you know this? Were you there? From what was said in the papers one shot was fired as a warning shot and another shot was fired by mistake as the officer ran.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And we are 100% certain there was a row happening how?

So you're saying the officer did it on perpouse and used the fight to cover things up?

OhNoYouDidn't

kearnsr wrote: »

Again thats not murder



Make your mind up. Its one or the other for you



Because I dont have the same opninon as you I need to cop on?



How do you know this? Were you there? From what was said in the papers one shot was fired as a warning shot and another shot was fired by mistake as the officer ran.



So you're saying the officer did it on perpouse and used the fight to cover things up?

Kearnsr, I lived in Rome for a few years and have near perfect Italian. I also am fairly clued into the Ultra scene. The press are reporting today two shots, fired horizontally at a carpark from the services area across the road. there is a big dispute over what was taking place in that car park. The cops started out by claiming a Juve fan shot him, and when that story fell apart a riot was the line. Now thats being picked apart. So yes, I am saying there is a cover up and your view of the Caribeneiri as the thin blue line when it comes to football is, putting it polietley, naive.

if you read between the lines the Italian Federation referred a number of times to violence 'no matter where it came from'. that is being interpreted as a dig at the cops.

You are wrong on this.

godtabh

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

if you read between the lines the Italian Federation referred a number of times to violence 'no matter where it came from'. that is being interpreted as a dig at the cops.

Since when did reading between the lines become fact?

OhNoYouDidn't

kearnsr wrote: »

Since when did reading between the lines become fact?

around the same time that people who didn't want trouble 'could walk away' :rolleyes: Try 'walking away' from a Caribineire at a Rome derby and see what happens.

The fact that the Italian Sports Minister is refusing to back the police on the incident is telling.

Why am I explaining football culture to a bloke who watches his ball in a pub anyway?!?

godtabh

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

around the same time that people who didn't want trouble 'could walk away' :rolleyes: Try 'walking away' from a Caribineire at a Rome derby and see what happens.

Never been to a Rome derby but had no problem doing it at a Milan derby

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Why am I explaining football culture to a bloke who watches his ball in a pub anyway?!?

You're better than me now? Why do you think i watch games in the pub?

dor83

Ok, read through this and make of it what you will, but it seems as if witnesses and forensic evidence are contradicting what the Police are saying happened http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov13q.html

PHB

dor83 wrote: »

Ok, read through this and make of it what you will, but it seems as if witnesses and forensic evidence are contradicting what the Police are saying happened http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/nov13q.html

Shock shock, the police lie :rolleyes:

Nunu

Policeman who fired the fatal shot has been charged with murder today.

PHB

Good.

OhNoYouDidn't

Nunu wrote: »

Policeman who fired the fatal shot has been charged with murder today.

I hate to say I told you so, but kearnsr, come here, I want to gloat.