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Toilet Training advice needed

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  • 11-11-2007 7:39pm
    #1
    ooter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,199 ✭✭✭


    i have a Miniature Jack Russell Bitch who's almost 2 Years Old and i'm having great difficulty in Toilet Training her.
    i have just moved in to a House and really want to get her Toilet Trained ASAP.up to now i was living in a Flat and had no choice but to leave her Indoors.i would put Newspaper down in a few places around the Flat and most of the time she would go on the Paper but some of the time she would just go wherever she liked.to be honest i didn't mind when she did it in the Flat cos i knew i'd be moving on eventually but now i'm in a House i want it to stop.i've stayed in the House for 2 Nights now and both Nights i put Newspaper down hoping she's go on it but instead she went on the Floor.
    unless i can get it sorted i'm going to have to leave her out the back because there's no way i'm having her go the Toilet all over the House.
    any advice would be greatly appreciated....


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    #2
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Do you take her for walks so she can mark her territory ? also, stick her nose in it and it ill deter her from doing it until she gets out .


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    #3
    macshadow
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭macshadow


    If she goes off the paper put her mess back on the paper instead of throwing it out.This should tell her the paper is the right place and praise her when she geos on the paper. Maybe it was just a happy coincidence she was going on the paper some of the time? please don't stick her nose in it,you can't correct or punish a dog for not doing something it doesn't know how to do.
    Someone here should be able to tell you about crate training if you want to try that.


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    #4
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    first things first ...
    Are you actually there to let her out if and when she has to go?

    As I understand it she's used to doing her business in the flat because she was in there (on her own?) all day.

    Just because she is in "a house" now, doesn't mean she has unlearned all that.

    You'll have to start at the very beginning:

    After every drink, sleep or feed, take her outside, if she does her business, praise her. Also watch her during the day, if she gets shifty take her outside and if she does her business there, praise her.

    Ignore any inside accidents. Keep praising outside "action" and repeat until it has sunk in.


    Might be a lengthy process though, because she' been doing it the "wrong way" all her life.


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    #5
    coisaille
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭coisaille


    Hi, crate training might be something to try - I only have experience with crate training a puppy though, it will probably take a bit longer to train an adult dog... if you google it there's loads of info to be had but basically the idea is that dogs dont like to soil where they sleep so if they are in the crate they will try and hold on until the morning, at the moment though she's probably not used to holding it that long so you might have to get up in the night for the first few nights! Wont last long though..

    If you do get a crate leave it open in the room for a while with some bedding and nice treats in there so she can get used to it, if its cozy enough it becomes like a 'doggy bedroom' - their own space to chill out in. That only solves night time training though, for the rest of the time I'd say the only thing to do is start taking her outside regularly esp after meals and times when she would normally need to go, or if you see her about to go take her straight outside - otherwise she wont know thats what shes supposed to do! Maybe confine her to one room like the kitchen till she starts to get the hang of it? Loads of praise and treats if she does go outside, imo bin the newspaper too, it won't really help you...


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    #6
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    latchyco wrote: »
    stick her nose in it and it ill deter her from doing it until she gets out .

    I thought this practice stopped in the 50's?


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    #7
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    LuckyStar wrote: »
    I thought this practice stopped in the 50's?
    You mean before everything went all namby pamby, and everything was all wrapped up in cotten wool ? some of the old ways are the best , handed down from generation to generation such as the one i mentioned and dont dare say those people were being cruel to their dogs, they wern't and arent .
    please don't stick her nose in it,you can't correct or punish a dog for not doing something it doesn't know how to do.
    Dogs like babys have to eventualy trained not to pee anywere and everywere and if a dog gets out enough in the first place to do it ,it will . Sticking it's nose in it might seem cruel , ( usually 1/2 times is needed ) but the young dog will understand it's not ment to do it and it wont pee or crap on the floor, it will learn to wait until it is allowed outside.


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    #8
    uberwolf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,580 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    what worked well for me was isolating the dog in the smallest room in the house (for practicality) overnight and covering the floor in newspaper. Gradually reduce the floor covered by the paper, and she should still be aiming for the paper. Then move the paper outside, in view. She should agitate for it.

    This worked well on a puppy, adult dog I'm not sure.


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    #9
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    latchyco wrote: »
    Dogs like babys have to eventualy trained not to pee anywere and everywere and if a dog gets out enough in the first place to do it ,it will . Sticking it's nose in it might seem cruel , ( usually 1/2 times is needed ) but the young dog will understand it's not ment to do it and it wont pee or crap on the floor, it will learn to wait until it is allowed outside.

    The dog will understand nothing of that sort.

    What it WILL understand is that you get upset when it relives itself and it will further understand that if it does so, you will rub its nose into it.

    That's all.

    It won't learn to do it outside from that ...but it might learn that relieving itself is "wrong" and just hold it as long as it can and then secretly do its business in some corner, unseen by you. (That needn't be outside though)

    In other words, dunking your dogs nose in its own feces will give it a nice little behavioral dysfunction, nothing else.

    Or would you stick a babies nose into a crappy nappy?


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    #10
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    latchyco wrote: »
    You mean before everything went all namby pamby, and everything was all wrapped up in cotten wool ?

    I don't view looking after a dog well as "namby pamby". As for the cotton wool part, there is a way to discipline a dog without sticking his nose in his own poo.
    latchyco wrote: »
    Dogs like babys have to eventualy trained not to pee anywere and everywere

    Babies can be toilet trained without their parents sticking their nose in their own poo, why not dogs?
    latchyco wrote: »
    dont dare say those people were being cruel to their dogs, they wern't and arent

    Please quote me on this, as I do not remember saying it.


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    #11
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    LuckyStar wrote: »

    Please quote me on this, as I do not remember saying it.
    I know you weren't thats why i was saying as in' please dont say' .
    Or would you stick a babies nose into a crappy nappy?
    I thought i might get answered that question ( funny how you can predict some things lol ) and the obious answer is no .I think generaly speaking most dog owners will get different advice from different people about how to handle them , it's trial and error depending on the dog .When ours was a pup he tore through phone wires,shoes,plastics,toys,etc and pups do that . What might work for one may not for another, but i understand people objecting to the nose in poo for a pup but some people swear by it.


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    #12
    Killme00
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭Killme00


    peasant wrote: »
    You'll have to start at the very beginning:

    After every drink, sleep or feed, take her outside, if she does her business, praise her. Also watch her during the day, if she gets shifty take her outside and if she does her business there, praise her.

    Ignore any inside accidents. Keep praising outside "action" and repeat until it has sunk in.


    This is good advice and works very well.


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    #13
    Toulouse
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Toulouse


    peasant wrote: »
    You'll have to start at the very beginning:

    After every drink, sleep or feed, take her outside, if she does her business, praise her. Also watch her during the day, if she gets shifty take her outside and if she does her business there, praise her.

    Ignore any inside accidents. Keep praising outside "action" and repeat until it has sunk in.

    Agreed. This is the best course of action. Be consistent though, it's not going to happen overnight, but it's so worth it in the end. I trained both a puppy and a 9 month old dog in this manner and it worked a treat. Have to say though that the older dog picked it up alot faster.

    Please don't go sticking the dogs nose into it's own waste either, it won't achieve anything other than scaring and confusing your dog.


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    #14
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭fits


    +1 for Peasant's advice... always good.


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    #15
    TheB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭TheB


    Peasant is spot on - best course of action..

    Works on older dogs well - a friend re-homed a 3 yo springer who had always lived in a run and used this method to house train her - worked beautifully.. took roughly 10 days and only a few accidents.. she also used puppy pads near the door to "out" and a crate..

    She is using the same method now on a lab (2 years) rehomed from the same place (not cruelty cases - working gundogs that have become gunshy etc and can no longer work so need rehoming..) and is having no problems..

    Good Luck :)


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    #16
    bernard0368
    Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭bernard0368


    I found taking them out for a walk till they do the business, then praise works.
    If they refuse to go out side to do their business. Put their food bowl at the last accident spot. Dogs do not like soiling the area the live- eat in.


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    #17
    macshadow
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭macshadow


    I think the OP means when the dog has to be left inside alone or when OP is not available to let her outside. It would be crazy to want the dog to go on paper when someone is there to let her go outside.


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    #18
    ~Thalia~
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭~Thalia~


    ooter wrote: »
    i have a Miniature Jack Russell Bitch who's almost 2 Years Old and i'm having great difficulty in Toilet Training her.
    i have just moved in to a House and really want to get her Toilet Trained ASAP.up to now i was living in a Flat and had no choice but to leave her Indoors.i would put Newspaper down in a few places around the Flat and most of the time she would go on the Paper but some of the time she would just go wherever she liked.to be honest i didn't mind when she did it in the Flat cos i knew i'd be moving on eventually but now i'm in a House i want it to stop.i've stayed in the House for 2 Nights now and both Nights i put Newspaper down hoping she's go on it but instead she went on the Floor.
    unless i can get it sorted i'm going to have to leave her out the back because there's no way i'm having her go the Toilet all over the House.
    any advice would be greatly appreciated....


    Why at almost 2 years old is she not already trained to go outside?

    I echo the advice of the starting from scratch option as you would toilet train a puppy or the crate training option.

    As for the suggestion of sticking a dog's nose in their own mess this simply teaches the dog that it going to the toilet is something it will get punished for and it will cause problesm in the long run. To the poster that suggested this as a tried and trusted method, think again PLEASE. This is NOT a nice way to treat any animal and serves no purpose but to confuse your pet. Please don't issue advice like this to perpetuate the kind of thinking that this is a proper method to train a pup/dog not to relieve itself indoors.

    Thank you.


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    #19
    Wokie
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Wokie


    peasant wrote: »
    first things first ...

    You'll have to start at the very beginning:

    After every drink, sleep or feed, take her outside, if she does her business, praise her. Also watch her during the day, if she gets shifty take her outside and if she does her business there, praise her.

    Ignore any inside accidents. Keep praising outside "action" and repeat until it has sunk in.


    Might be a lengthy process though, because she' been doing it the "wrong way" all her life.


    This is definitely the way to go! I've an 8yr old foster who came from living in an apartment and so had same problem as the OP. Using this tried, tested and trusted method she is now housetrained and that was within a week and a half and with only 2 accidents in the house;)


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    #20
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,522 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Wokie wrote: »
    I've an 8yr old foster who came from living in an apartment and so had same problem as the OP.

    I'd just like to point out that this is no excuse (not directed at Wokie).

    I live in an apartment and my dogs are never left long enough that they have to pee inside...


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    #21
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    As for the suggestion of sticking a dog's nose in their own mess this simply teaches the dog that it going to the toilet is something it will get punished for and it will cause problesm in the long run. To the poster that suggested this as a tried and trusted method, think again PLEASE. This is NOT a nice way to treat any animal and serves no purpose but to confuse your pet. Please don't issue advice like this to perpetuate the kind of thinking that this is a proper method to train a pup/dog not to relieve itself indoors.

    Thank you.
    Ok , maybe it's not exceptable now and i take on board what your saying , as my dog is now old enough to do it outside, but it was a method that was used by many people for years and if you have being at the end of your tether with a pup ,rightly or wrongly some people resorted to solving the problem that way
    .
    Thank you .


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    #22
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    latchyco wrote: »
    Ok , maybe it's not exceptable now and i take on board what your saying , as my dog is now old enough to do it outside, but it was a method that was used by many people for years and if you have being at the end of your tether with a pup ,rightly or wrongly some people resorted to solving the problem that way
    .
    Thank you .

    just semantics here ... but let's be clear on this:

    Dunking a dogs nose into its own feces does not "solve" anything ...other than maybe venting owners' frustration.


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    #23
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    peasant wrote: »
    just semantics here ... but let's be clear on this:

    Dunking a dogs nose into its own feces does not "solve" anything ...other than maybe venting owners' frustration.
    If you dont have the time or inclination to look after a pup or young dog, dont have one..Of course the more time you put into training your pet the more it will respond correctly .
    I am not getting into the morals and rights and wrongs of good / bad dog upbringing with anybody ,because i know my 11 year old border collie is as happy as any dog on the block and thats ok with me.


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    #24
    jambofc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    hi all dont want to seem to be hijacking this thread but i really need help :eek:
    i have a shepard pup hes 5 months old now had him since 8 weeks old,he is possibly the worst pup ive ever had(ive had dogs since i was a pup!!!!) he will not do anything hes told he is still soiling the floor ALWAYS even if let out he will come back in and p~ss on the floor in front of you while looking you straight in the eyes!!!! he is a bit snappy and we have 2 boys bit afraid of him eating one of them when hes bigger he is the strangest dog ive ever had he will hardly ever look for attention and when he does you pet him for a min and hes off.
    had a word with the vet she told me to have his testicles removed and it will stop his dominent attitude!!! this seems a bit extreme to me dunno maybe im just a softy but we are all at the end of our tether with him ive got up for 12 weeks now and had to clean up his mess every morning.
    hes walked,played with,loved trained but no he just refuses to learn anything :eek:
    anybody help me,thanks


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    #25
    LuckyStar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭LuckyStar


    latchyco wrote: »
    Ok , maybe it's not exceptable now and i take on board what your saying , as my dog is now old enough to do it outside, but it was a method that was used by many people for years and if you have being at the end of your tether with a pup ,rightly or wrongly some people resorted to solving the problem that way
    .
    Thank you .

    Many people did it for many years, doesn't mean it is right

    As for
    latchyco wrote: »
    the more time you put into training your pet the more it will respond correctly

    - in my experience, house training a dog with a crate, newspaper, and above all patience takes a lot more time than dunking his nose in his own poo.


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    #26
    Wokie
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭Wokie


    fits wrote: »
    I'd just like to point out that this is no excuse (not directed at Wokie).

    I live in an apartment and my dogs are never left long enough that they have to pee inside...

    I absolutely agree that it's no excuse! Unfortunately (in my fosters case) people will come up with any excuse to surrender a dog:(

    OP good luck with your training;)


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