"Speed Cameras: the twisted truth" (only 7% of accidents due to excess speed proof!)

Senna

I was lead to believe, speed cameras on motorways are not turned on 24/7. they are only turned on when the speed limit of the road is dropped due to bad weather.

Also, all this talk of motorways. It not like we have many!!

ballooba

the_syco wrote: »

I call "excessive speed" above 150km/h. What do you call excessive?

Ye see the thing is, 90km/h isn't excessive, but if you can't drive for sh|t, driving at 50km/h can be dangerous.

Excessive speed for the conditions.

doonothing

ballooba wrote: »

Excessive speed for the conditions.

exactly. 150 is excessive in almost every situation, when would you find that speed acceptable? don't just say the autobahn please.

50 is rarely excessive, even for bad drivers. it's excessive if braking or basic manoeuvrability is difficult for them, but they are not in the majority on the roads.

Niall1234

Pete4779 wrote: »

This is what I think will happen, and there is no evidence that putting speed cameras over British motorways made them safer than German autobahns with no speed limits and no cameras.

It's a revenue generation exercise before it's a safety exercise, that is clear.

Don't most statistics have sections of unlimited autobahn to have almost exactly the same crash rate as sections with a 130kph speed limit.

As another person has said already, the Gov would do a lot better if they focused on all facets of bad driving, not just speeding and drink driving. I passed a learner on the Cork South Ring Road last night, driving in the overtaking lane, veering all over her lane. She even came out of it a few times. I don't think she had any notion that its the overtaking lane or anything.

unkel

Victor wrote: »

"uneducated, opinionated gobshíte." is true. Your comments are just as insulting

Victor, you of all people should know the difference between an insult and abusive language.

pbug21

Its excessive speed on roads without cameras that is causing accident. The ****e roads in the likes of Donegal, where people drive too fast for the conditions. I wouldn't be overly concerned with speeding on motorways or anything like that.

peasant

Speed cameras DO work, if they're applied correctly.

Back in Germany, there was this one stretch of road that they called the "death road", leading from a town with a good few discos and nightclubs to the surrounding villages.

That road was very bendy and twisty with old trees lining both sides. You could safely drive it at 100 km/h for most parts, but there were a few bends where you had to slow down to about 80. As a "driving road" it was a pleasure to drive in a "sporting manner" ...I have done so myself several times, particularly at night, when you could see that there was no other traffic and you could really open it up and give it some welly.

Speed limit on the whole road was 100 km/h.

Almost every week, particularly at weekend nights, somebody died on that road, having misjudged one of the bends and wrapped their car around a tree.

The speed limit was reduced to 80 km/h

The deaths continued.

Then they put up 3 or 4 cameras along that road and advertised the fact with big warning signs.

No more deaths since.



go figure ....

Stark

doonothing wrote: »

50 is rarely excessive, even for bad drivers. it's excessive if braking or basic manoeuvrability is difficult for them, but they are not in the majority on the roads.

Plenty of accidents occur at that speed or less. 50km/hr can be lethal too in the wrong place at the wrong time. Drive through a housing estate or past a school with lots of young children around at that speed and you could potentially do a lot of damage.

Also, take a trip through some parts of the city at certain times (Mulhuddart is often a good place to spot them) and watch idiots with L-plates struggle to control their cars a week after buying them, losing control at 20km/hr on corners and mounting footpaths etc. There's a significant minority of these fools on the road.

ballooba

pbug21 wrote: »

Its excessive speed on roads without cameras that is causing accident. The ****e roads in the likes of Donegal, where people drive too fast for the conditions. I wouldn't be overly concerned with speeding on motorways or anything like that.

Actaully I think you will find that it is not excessive speed on any roads that is causing accidents. Some accidents, a small percentage of accidents are caused by excessive speed. The commonly held misconception I encounter is that excessive speed causes the vast majority of accidents.

Instant Karma

I totally agree, while a speeding car under the control of a poor driver can be dangerous it is not the worst thing on our roads today. I can't really comment on what its like in the south these days but up here in the north the sheer volume of traffic prevents most speeding.

Also, in the north speed cameras and mobile speed detector vans are notorious for patrolling those roads that are not known for many accidents at all, yet bad accident blackspots are not covered at all. Its definately another source of revenue up in these parts.

Just while i'm started, the amount of disgraceful drivers on our roads today is shocking, a recent article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7086110.stm says as many as 5000 bad drivers per year are given the test and I see evidence every day on the road. I really hate to think what its going to be like in 10-15 years time unless there is a major rethink on ways to improve the driving populations skills behind the wheel.

also re: motorways and speed, up here there is a 70mph limit on the roads but to the best of my knowledge the police will have a tolerance of 10% +2 of your actual sped, meaning you can drive at around 79mph, and on normal roads 68mph with little fear of being prosecuted.

/edit

it's interesting to note that the article linked also tries to spin the speed=death statistic which is strange given that new drivers who have passed the test are restricted to 45mph for one year.

E92

the_syco wrote: »

I call "excessive speed" above 150km/h. What do you call excessive?

Have you ever gone at 150 km/h?

Has anyone here actually travelled at these "excessive speeds", other than those that are from Germany/lived in Germany?


150 km/h is not excessive at all. Ever gone on a German Autobahn? 150 km/h and higher feels like the most natural thing in the world.

I've travelled at 180 km/h on an Autobahn. You felt like you were moving at that speed. 120 km/h is painfully slow by comparison.

150 km/h is not that fast at all. When you start hitting 170+ that is fast.
Many Germans drive very fast on the Autobahns without a limit(I remember being in a car there last year and we were doing 180 km/h and you would see people flying by us at what must have been well over 200 km/h).

The German Government did a study on the autobahns back in 2005, and guess what they found? That Autobahns with no speed limit were no more dangerous than those with a speed limit. FWIW half the Autobahns have no speed limit, and the average speed on Autobahns without a limit is 150 km/h. Thats at least 20 km/h more than the Autobahns with a speed limit(bar a stretch of the A2 which has a limit of 140 km/h, but that is the exception rather than the rule). some Autobahns have a limit as low as 80 km/h(most are 120 or 130).

The UK's Department for Transport found that speeding was responsible for only 5% of deaths. And the speed limit on country roads is still 60 mph there as opposed to 80 km/h(50 mph) here.

i think its important to remember that speeding is not a problem on roads which are designed for going fast like motorways and Dual Carriageways.

it is much more of a problem on roads of the kind peasant described.

My allergy to speed cameras comes from the reality that they are put on roads which are up to 10 times safer than single carriageways(M-way and DC), rather than accident blackspots and roads with no hard shoulders, full of twists and turns etc and still there is a limit of 100 km/h.

When you have people like the RSA spouting out rubbish about speeding, and using wrong statistics, like the fact that they think cars stop from 100 km/h in 60 metres, when of course as this page(look at "bremsweg aus 100 km/h") shows the RSA's statistic is actually 50% more than reality.

Stark

E92 wrote: »

When you have people like the RSA spouting out rubbish about speeding, and using wrong statistics, like the fact that they think cars stop from 100 km/h in 60 metres, when of course as this page(look at "bremsweg aus 100 km/h") shows the RSA's statistic is actually 50% more than reality.

That's on cars like the '07 German spec Passat though. Your average Irish-spec 10 year old runabout that you find on Irish motorways isn't going to stop so quickly.

Edit: Of course if they actually gave a toss, they'd press for an end to VRT to allow more people to buy modern cars with better safety features.

wil

Steven Ladyman, the junior transport minister who was in charge of introduction of cameras (and has 9 points in his licence) in interview with Jeremy Clarkson (no points) could not answer Jeremys claim that the statistics in fact prove that cameras have little or no beneficial effect on road death stats. He has now left with T Blair.
Since the introduction of speed cameras in the UK the road deaths statistics have been pretty much static, in fact in some years they even rose slightly.

The UK has had a very good record (best in the world) for many years now and cameras were introduced as a last resort. They are reaching the point where more accidents are actually accidents and not so much from the amount of reckless and feckless behaviour we see here day in day out.

Predominantly cameras provide a very healthy revenue stream for cash strapped police and councils.
Police admit freely, when they arent going to be officially quoted, that they are predominantly providing revenue. If a foreign reg appears on camera, they usually just bin it, its not financially worth chasing up. Governments like "safety" measures that generate money?

Jimoslimos

Alun wrote: »

On motorways in the UK, you won't get pulled over for 80mph, or even a bit faster as long as you're driving safely. Get over 90mph, and you're chancing it, especially if you're driving even a bit erratically or dangerously. You do have to watch out for overhead speed gantries and the like in places like the M25 though .. they're a bit more, shall we say, 'inflexible' in the way they operate Also, the Traffic Police over there are highly trained professionals and really know what they're doing, so 110mph is nothing to them.

Yes true, motorways and driving on them is of a much higher standard than I've seen in Ireland. People recognise that the point of a motorway is to keep safe distances between you and the other cars around you.

I think Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear 2 weeks ago said (in jest mind) that he has never braked on a motorway and I can see his point. Car in front is lot slower - you can;
a) ease off accelerator
b) change lanes
c) brake (but then you probably haven't being paying attention)

Pick c) and it ends up the car behind you probably has to brake too and so on ...

Although some of the average speed cameras they have on the M2 and M25 are a bit of a headache. Everyone spends their time with heads glued on the dashboard watching the speedo (especially when traffic is light). I've actually seen one of the overhead gantries on one motorway with a "not in use" sign, motorists probably panicking thinking the average speed zone they left 1/2 mile ago was still running.