Will the unthinkable (to them) happen England this weekend?

Paul Tergat

now to find a scapegoat

KdjaCL

s_carnage wrote: »

I don't think it'll ever happen. Ya can't have an English lad on a Arsenal, United team just cos he is English and a better European footballer on the bench not playing because of his nationality.

Works in Spain but they sign predominatly spanish players as they are better.


kdjac

bbability

The other thing is yonger players in england are getting far too much too early and they are not hungry enough for a match like tonight. Foreigners are one thing but hunger and pride are another. Saw very little of that for Ireland or England during this qualifying campaign

tinofapples

Jose Mourinho to take over as England Boss

Agreed.

Pepe LeFrits

Jonny Arson wrote: »

no question about that, obviously at youth level they need to! countries the size of England, with their resources and rich domestic leagues simply should not be failing to qualify for major tournaments under any circumstances. i have no doubt the vast influx of foreign players is finally catching up with them now

It is a moronic idea, and it would actually weaken the English national team further. The foreigners in the PL HELP the English players, as they are better than the ones they are displacing, and you know, force the remaining ones to improve their game.

English teams won 7 European cups in 8(?) years in the late 70s/early 80s with very few of those darned foreigners around, and how many tournaments did the English team qualify for then?

Nunu

Well that was an experience!

Was it a coincidence that no Man Utd players were on the pitch tonight and they were absolutely battered.....just kidding;)

Fact of the matter is they were always going to struggle missing Neville, Terry, Ferdinand, A. Cole, Hargreaves, Rooney and Owen....their 7 best players.

...and Christ how good was Modric for the Croats...absolutely sublime player:eek:


...Hiddink really does have the midas touch. The man is unreal!!

A Dub in Glasgo

p_larkin99 wrote: »

now to find a scapegoat

No looking required

jameshayes

We should start a guess tomorrows headline thread!!!

I think it will be 'McLaren blames NFL'

Mr.Nice Guy

The Austrians and the Swiss must be jumping for joy over Wednesday night's result. Now they won't have to worry about English hooligans destroying their cities or national anthems being booed by ignorant fans.

Mossy Monk

England derserved to be beaten tonight. Dreadful performance.

DonJose

Stan Staunton for England manager LOL

Jonny Arson

Tusky wrote: »

I dont understand that point. England have a fantastic squad. All of them are playing at a high level.

obviously not fantastic enough if they're failing to failing to qualify for a major tournaments when they have the one of the best domestic leagues in the world at their disposal

kdjacl made a point about Man U and them concentrating on producing English players but this isn't the case with some other clubs. there is a culture with many english teams about finding the cheapest and most talented foreign talents which is you can't fault them for doing that but it is counterproductive for the overall health of national team and future talents. you can't deny that teams fielding 8/9 foreign players out 11 is only preventing homegrown players from getting the opportunity to prove themselves at the highest level

KdjaCL

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

English teams won 7 European cups in 8(?) years in the late 70s/early 80s with very few of those darned foreigners around, and how many tournaments did the English team qualify for then?

Every now and again a golden post is put up here, thats one of them.

spot on.

But now foreigners are better footballers the goalposts have moved.

kdjac

johnnyrotten

Steve McClaren for Ireland Manager!

mchurl

England were very poor tonight, only Crouch was half decent for them. Croatia impressed me greatly and Luka Modric is going to be some player. The Croats showed great calmness under pressue and were wonderful at holding onto the ball. England have the talent there to be a big force, but they never seem to show it. They are over-hyped for what they have achieved. Croatia showed them up tonight for what they really are, an average international side.

Also just on a moot point, i heard announced over the PA in Wembley that Frank Lampard was MOTM. What did he do in the whole match other than take the pen, i dont even recall hearing his name mentioned.

applehunter

One of the great nights!:D

jameshayes

applehunter wrote: »

One of the great nights!:D

well said

shotamoose

Gotta love Alan Hansen: "Croatia could have won by six or seven". Eeh maybe a bit over the top there. But not much, Croatia were excellent, England were very poor - I couldn't believe how bad they were for the last 20 minutes, giving the ball away again and again, lobbing rubbish hopeful balls into the box.

So if McClaren is sacked does that mean the FA have to fork out yet another massive pay-off?

jameshayes

shotamoose wrote: »

Gotta love Alan Hansen: "Croatia could have won by six or seven".

I tought this too, the croations paniced so many times in front of the goal. They looked like rabbits caught in headlights when they were 1on1 with carrson.

Jonny Arson

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

It is a moronic idea, and it would actually weaken the English national team further. The foreigners in the PL HELP the English players, as they are better than the ones they are displacing, and you know, force the remaining ones to improve their game.

i fail to see how implementing a quota of english players in a matchday squad or at youth level is going to do any significant harm to the English national team, especially after that tonight

KdjaCL

jameshayes wrote: »

shotamoose wrote: »

Gotta love Alan Hansen: "Croatia could have won by six or seven". QUOTE]


I tought this too, the croations paniced so many times in front of the goal. They looked like rabbits caught in headlights when they were 1on1 with carrson.

ehh but they where in front of goal so many times

They played a good game sat back and hit them on the break, shouldnt have conceded 2 tbh.


kdjac

Pepe LeFrits

Jonny Arson wrote: »

i fail to see how implementing a quota of english players in a matchday squad or at youth level is going to do any significant harm to the English national team

Because it lowers the quality of the Premier League, which houses the best English players.

It will mean that loads of dross from the Championship will get to experience Premiership football where otherwise they would not. Fat lot of good that'll do the select few Englishmen who have enough talent to compete on an international stage.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Pigman II

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

English teams won 7 European cups in 8(?) years in the late 70s/early 80s with very few of those darned foreigners around, and how many tournaments did the English team qualify for then?

Actually, contrary to what you say there the club/national standard overlaped almost perfectly in the 1970s

England national didn't qualify for anything from 1970 to 1980
England clubs didn't win any European cups 1970 to 1977.

mike65

shotamoose wrote: »

So if McClaren is sacked does that mean the FA have to fork out yet another massive pay-off?

Nope they put a "half-time" clause in the contract.

Mike

Erin Go Brath

That was a great game, and the best team won.

The big positive is we won't have to listen to ****e about England winning the euros now. I tip my hat to Croatia for doing a great service.

jameshayes

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

That was a great game, and the best team won.

The big positive is we won't have to listen to ****e about England winning the euros now. I tip my hat to Croatia for doing a great service.

I agree - but now we have to listen to 'How we were robbed'

nlgbbbblth

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

It is a moronic idea, and it would actually weaken the English national team further. The foreigners in the PL HELP the English players, as they are better than the ones they are displacing, and you know, force the remaining ones to improve their game.

English teams won 7 European cups in 8(?) years in the late 70s/early 80s with very few of those darned foreigners around, and how many tournaments did the English team qualify for then?

1976 EC - No
1978 WC - No
1980 EC - Yes
1982 WC - Yes
1984 EC - No

Speaking of foreigners, ever heard this argument?

'So you hate England, but you support an English club?'

'Well the club are based in England but it's nearly all foreigners'

'How long have you been supporting them?'

'Since the 1970s'

'The 1970s eh? When there were f*ckall foreigners and mostly English players'

'Yes'

The point being that some Irish ABEs cite the influx of foreigners as justification for supporting an English club [i.e. they're not really English] but fail to realise that Irish people have been supporting English clubs for many, many years - long before the influx of foreigners and when the majority of players were English, Scottish or Welsh - i.e. Brits.

AdrianII

jameshayes wrote: »

I agree - but now we have to listen to 'How we were robbed'

we like how we were robbed in the rugby

we are just as bad at this stage tbh

Fratton Fred

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The Austrians and the Swiss must be jumping for joy over Wednesday night's result. Now they won't have to worry about English hooligans destroying their cities or national anthems being booed by ignorant fans.

yeah, I,m sure they can't wait to have the Russian and Croatian fans there:rolleyes:. Maybe try looking past your own prejudice in future.

nlgbbbblth

jameshayes wrote: »

I agree - but now we have to listen to 'How we were robbed'

Some people are never happy.....:rolleyes:

bbability

Just heard Mc Laren's and Beckams interview... sounds like Mc Laren will resign.

Jonny Arson

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Because it lowers the quality of the Premier League, which houses the best English players.

It will mean that loads of dross from the Championship will get to experience Premiership football where otherwise they would not. Fat lot of good that'll do the select few Englishmen who have enough talent to compete on an international stage.

well you've made my point, homegrown players are being progressively squeezed out of the English game at the highest level. young players with talent are being deprived of the opportunity of experiencing the top class management and coaching at the top clubs hence are ending up with Championship clubs with a lower standard of coaching and management and can't fulfill their full potential. thank christ for Man United the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville weren't born a decade later or they could be playing for Macclesfield Town.....

when you've not got many homegrown players playing at the highest level you've got an underachieving football system thus here we have tonight England failing to qualify for major tournaments

Pepe LeFrits

Pigman II wrote: »

Actually, contrary to what you say there the club/national standard overlaped almost perfectly in the 1970s

England national didn't qualify for anything from 1970 to 1980
England clubs didn't win any European cups 1970 to 1977.

My bad, English club sides won the EC in 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 and 84. They failed to qualify for major tournaments in 76, 78 and 84. In 80 and 82 they reached the dizzying heights of Round 1 and Group Round 2 before being elimated.

Meanwhile their recent run of reaching the quarter finals in 2002, 2004 and 2006 is the most consistently (good) the English national team has been since their run of 66 (winners), 68 (3rd place) and 70 (QFs).

So clearly, there is a correlation between the number of foreigners and the standard of the English team.*

* Just in case anyone is hard of thinking, this is sarcasm.

Erin Go Brath

jameshayes wrote: »

I agree - but now we have to listen to 'How we were robbed'

Israel threw England a lifeline last saturday. England were lucky to be in the race. The ref threw them a soft penalty today aswell to give them another lifeline. England don't deserve it, and tbh I can't see how any bar the most delusional England fans could claim they were robbed.

I take your point though every excuse will be used; injuries, the pitch, the cycle of the moons rotation around the earth will all enter the equation!

Mr Alan

I like Beckham. I hope he gets a fair few more caps for em. He deserves it. Gets way too much stick.

KdjaCL

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

* Just in case anyone is hard of thinking, this is sarcasm.

lets just hope noone pounces on that and points out that the last few english teams in a CL final had X english players.

Would really make your sarcastic reply worth it



kdjac

Hydromonkey

What's the difference between England and Lewis Hamilton?

Hamilton will still have a McLaren in the morning

Jonny Arson

Hydromonkey wrote: »

What's the difference between England and Lewis Hamilton?

Hamilton will still have a McLaren in the morning?

->

jameshayes

Well I have one more thing I have to say before I log out


-I'm gonna sleep sound tonight!-

Pepe LeFrits

Jonny Arson wrote: »

well you've made my point, homegrown players are being progressively squeezed out of the English game at the highest level. young players with talent are being deprived of the opportunity of experiencing the top class management and coaching at the top clubs hence are ending up with Championship clubs with a lower standard of coaching and management and can't fulfill their full potential. thank christ for Man United the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Neville weren't born a decade later or they could be playing for Macclesfield Town.....

That's nonsense. The ones being deprived of the 'top coaching' are the ones who aren't good enough in the first place. You can't polish a turd. All you'd be doing is lowering the standard for the ones who are good enough, making it easy for them, and by failing to challenge them appropriately, wasting their potential - the ones who matter.

Producing a load of average players isn't going to be much use when a successful national team requires only a small number of top quality players.

when you've not got many homegrown players playing at the highest level you've got an underachieving football system thus here we have tonight England failing to qualify for major tournaments

And England have never failed to qualify for a tournament before, have they?

A Dub in Glasgo

Let's hope McLaren gets the boot with a bumper pay award just like Sven

s_carnage

Hydromonkey wrote: »

What's the difference between England and Lewis Hamilton?

Hamilton will still have a McLaren in the morning

A1. Good end to a good nite!!!

Paul Tergat

jameshayes wrote: »

I agree - but now we have to listen to 'How we were robbed'

well i dont see how we could possibly claim we were robbed - just not good enough

LuckyLloyd

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yeah, I,m sure they can't wait to have the Russian and Croatian fans there:rolleyes:. Maybe try looking past your own prejudice in future.

In fairness - English fans ARE the fans with the worst track record by far. No question.

Anyway good riddance. No irritating hype before the competition next year. No more national hubris that says it should be the "best Englishman for the job" - not the "best man".

Mr Alan

FA have called an emergency board meeting for the morning.

Obviously wanna save on Mc Clarens airfare to south africa on Friday!

Pepe LeFrits

KdjaCL wrote: »

lets just hope noone pounces on that and points out that the last few english teams in a CL final had X english players.

Would really make your sarcastic reply worth it



kdjac

Not really.

Incidentally, I meant the sarcastic phrase in a negative sense. It's pretty apparent that foreigners have played a large role in making the likes of Ashley Cole, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, John Terry etc the players they are today.

jameshayes

I was watching the news a few mins ago and it was a clip from before the match, fans were walking to the stadium and one was asked a question and he replied 'well there'll be no point watching it next year if we dont qualify'

They are not interested in the football - just their own glory

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In fairness - English fans ARE the fans with the worst track record by far. No question.

English fans havent been the worst for over a decade, dont be so ridiculous.

No question? I'm sure the Dutch, Italian, Serbian, Polish etc etc etc are all angels.

Dont be such a clown.

shane86

Fratton Fred wrote: »

yeah, I,m sure they can't wait to have the Russian and Croatian fans there:rolleyes:. Maybe try looking past your own prejudice in future.

Pardon me if Im wrong but I can never recall any significant Croat hooliganism abroad.

As for the Russians, given their economic state I doubt the skanger element of their football supporters can even afford to travel to Switzerland en masse. The reason Russian stadia are 3/4 full for many matches is that many fans, never mind skangers, cant afford tickets, occasionally they are given away just to make a crowd.

As for the match itself, the Croats played their heart out, well done to them. The English peno was something that would be overlooked by 90% of referrees. Im not condoning fouls, and I never do, I am more angry with the player than the ref if an Irish player concedes a blatant foul. The English, cockily, as always, assumed the Euros were sealed and done after the Israeli result. The Croats showed they were no pushovers, and have no ideas about taking it easy even though they had qualified. I can only imagine the manager told them to treat every game as if its a decider in the summer, as its good practice for when it does come along.

Players: Bar the excellent handling of the pass that led to his goal, Crouch was awful (though my mate rated him. As said in a prev thread, most posts made by me after crunch games are made after a rake of beer ). Gerrard was average. Beckham was great, and again showed up McClaren omitting him early in the campaign. About 3 mins before the 3rd Croat goal, I knew it was coming. England were all over the place, for the taking in the lead up. I felt sorry personally for Carson, the one that bounced out of his hands was awful, as was the shot that was pretty much a pass to the Croat (though no goal resulted). In the 2nd Barry attempted an awful clearance that would have went thru only to Carsons dive, he really came into the game in the 2nd.

Ah well, who to lift the cup in Euro 08? COME ON THE CROATS!!!

Having said all that, a Gus Hiddink team beating Andorra 1-0 is brutal form. A country of 140 million playing against a country who have a selection pool of young men that is less than the size of Blanchardstown, awful stuff.