Will the unthinkable (to them) happen England this weekend?

Savman

PHB wrote: »

Em,
Lampard and Gerrard
Hargreaves
Rooney
Joe Cole, and Beckham
Neville-Ferdinand-Terry-Cole

They are all world class.

You, sir, are off your rocker. Lampard and Gerrard, world class? Not by a long shot pal.
Hargreaves LOL!

Joe Cole...I think you're winding me up there.

Becks has never been top class, let alone world class, his crossing and deadball skills maybe but every other part of his game are so very ordinary.

Terry - great defender no doubt, debatable how good he is compared to Canavaro or Maldini simply cos Terry yet to do it on the big stage.

Ferdinand, Neville & A. Cole all good defenders, nowhere near world class.

Rooney has the potential to be world class, time will tell.

You must be watching too much Sky TV, these are very overrated players you're talking about. The fact they suck so bad at international level would back up my argument.

Look again at the England teamsheet, there's no Messi or Kaka on there. It's plainly obvious that the team is devoid of any invention or functioning brain.

England are potentially on par with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France & Argentina, but based on their performances they are forever stuck on par with the perennial under achievers like Spain, Holland etc.

To call their players world class is delusional.

CountryWise

Savman wrote: »

You, sir, are off your rocker. Lampard and Gerrard, world class? Not by a long shot pal.
Hargreaves LOL!

Joe Cole...I think you're winding me up there.

Becks has never been top class, let alone world class, his crossing and deadball skills maybe but every other part of his game are so very ordinary.

Terry - great defender no doubt, debatable how good he is compared to Canavaro or Maldini simply cos Terry yet to do it on the big stage.

Ferdinand, Neville & A. Cole all good defenders, nowhere near world class.

Rooney has the potential to be world class, time will tell.

You must be watching too much Sky TV, these are very overrated players you're talking about. The fact they suck so bad at international level would back up my argument.

Look again at the England teamsheet, there's no Messi or Kaka on there. It's plainly obvious that the team is devoid of any invention or functioning brain.

England are potentially on par with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France & Argentina, but based on their performances they are forever stuck on par with the perennial under achievers like Spain, Holland etc.

To call their players world class is delusional.

It has to be said Italy almost did not qualify either and they are world champions, England have been under performing for years though they lack a leader big time

Nunu

DSB wrote: »

Think it might be cause Barry is better.

Hargreaves ommission stood out like a sore thumb. I was watching the Croats knocking it about just inside Englands half and Barry was nowhere to be seen. His job was to get the ball back and get England going - he was woefully inept at it. If that wasn't his job then his inclusion is puzzling. I'm not even going to go near Gerrard/Lampard because I have flogged them both to death numerous times in the past, there is nothing left to say on those 2.
If Hargreaves had been out there Englands possession would have increased by at least 5% and it could have made all the difference

event

PHB wrote: »

Em,
Lampard and Gerrard
Hargreaves
Rooney
Joe Cole, and Beckham
Neville-Ferdinand-Terry-Cole

They are all world class. What I mean by that is that they are in the top 5 players in their position in the world.

fabregas - xavi - scholes - deco - pirlo - kaka - these are players i would have as attacking midfielders. All better than the two mentioned IMO

essien - mascherano - diarra - cambiasso - gattuso - all better than hargreaves IMO

lahm - alves - ramos - zambrotta - zanetti - are all better than neville IMO

im not going to even entertain the beckham one. he used to be WC, no doubt, but to suggest he is now laughable. same with neville. Christ, he hasnt played in months, you have no way to know what he is like when he comes back.

england do not have that many WC players, not by a long shot

An Citeog

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Have you dug out the one about the Italians, or the Germans, or the Dutch?

What about the evel of racism in Spanish football?

No? thought not.

Have you seen the levels of violence at Russian games, how many Police were there protecting the England fans?

Still, why give a balanced view when all you really want to do is have a pop t England.

I love the way there are dozens of people on here who very rarely post in this forum but decided to turn up just to gloat at England going out.

The accusation made towards the English is that they treat the Irish like their little brother, maybe that is true, but there are a lot of Irish who behave like jealous younger siblings.

I just thought it was an interesting documentary. It's not just about England either and there are scenes with Polish and German hooligans. It was made for the BBC though, so it's mainly concentrated on England.

As for your comment on the Italians, German and Dutch, they tend to **** on their own doorstep rather in someone else's country. IMHO, going to a foreign country and stirring ****, inciting hatred and attacking people because they look Turkish is completely unacceptable and on a level above domestic hooliganism.

I posted that in response to the comments about English fans being well-behaved and how the media tries to sweep things under the carpet. I don't have a problem with England and actually wanted them to qualify.

As for the game itself, England suffered horrendously because of their injuries at the back and up front and the fact that Hargreaves, who I rate as one of the top defensive midfielders around from what I saw of him at Bayern, wasn't fully fit. Goalkeeping errors and disorganisation at the back was another major factor and Croatia were simply better than England on the day.

As regards the next manager, it really is a tough one to call. I don't think it'll be Jose though because international management (even England) would be a step down for him and would come a little too early in his career. Then again, I'm sure he'd like to get back into football in the near future and there aren't any top jobs out there. Even if Barça were to sack Rijkaard, Barça fans have developed quite a dislike for Mourinho. Schuster will be a great manager at Madrid if he's given time aswell. There's also his relationship with Terry.

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote: »

Em,
Lampard and Gerrard
Hargreaves
Rooney
Joe Cole, and Beckham
Neville-Ferdinand-Terry-Cole

They are all world class. What I mean by that is that they are in the top 5 players in their position in the world.

Maybe, but they'd be 5th! The England problem is in their philosophy. Listen to them, their managers at club level, their commentators, their pros. It's all "work rate", "engine", "desire".

Now look at the World Champions - Lippi's "English-style" Italy. You'll see that despite the fact that they had the never say die attitude, and the run all day stamina, they remembered to bring technique. Technical ability is still viewed with suspicion in English football generally, though some like Ferguson and Wenger embrace it, to good success.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

herbieflowers

It's not necessarily about class though, you don't need a team - necessarily - of eleven world-class players to win a football match at home, knowing that you need a point etc...

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ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So very true.

Players like Joseph ndo, Wes Hoolhan and their ilk, who have played in the eL. I have heard so many people bemoaning them for trying a trick or two.

"FFS, stop dancin' ya fairy" :rolleyes:

kryogen

Joe Cole is two footed, Rooney can do a decent job with his left, im sure there are some for scotland and wales but i dont know enough about them to say names, in terms of us...... john o shea comes to mind, he can use both feet adequately....Aiden Mceedy?

herbieflowers

It's not about the technical ability, though. Yes, England probably lack technical skills in comparison to other teams but it's irrelevant imo. Scotland, for instance. They can hardly be described as technically proficient as England are yet they put in great performances...football isn't merely about your ability, there are lots of factors - the system employed, the team ethic, the team as a unit, desire, passion, tactics etc. England's technical inferiority didn't lose them the match last night.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

_blank_

Savman wrote: »

You, sir, are off your rocker. Lampard and Gerrard, world class? Not by a long shot pal.
Hargreaves LOL!

Joe Cole...I think you're winding me up there.

Becks has never been top class, let alone world class, his crossing and deadball skills maybe but every other part of his game are so very ordinary.

Terry - great defender no doubt, debatable how good he is compared to Canavaro or Maldini simply cos Terry yet to do it on the big stage.

Ferdinand, Neville & A. Cole all good defenders, nowhere near world class.

Rooney has the potential to be world class, time will tell.

You must be watching too much Sky TV, these are very overrated players you're talking about. The fact they suck so bad at international level would back up my argument.

Look again at the England teamsheet, there's no Messi or Kaka on there. It's plainly obvious that the team is devoid of any invention or functioning brain.

England are potentially on par with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France & Argentina, but based on their performances they are forever stuck on par with the perennial under achievers like Spain, Holland etc.

To call their players world class is delusional.

Heh, Sav, I've heard that rant somewhere before...:D

PHB

You must be watching too much Sky TV, these are very overrated players you're talking about. The fact they suck so bad at international level would back up my argument.

You're watching too much RTE. The basis of how good they are should be their club teams, how they do in the premiership and how they do in the CL. As such..

Lampard. In the last three years, he's scored more than 20 goals every season. Has gotten 16, 10, and 16 assists each season. Mourinho said he thinks he's the best in the world at that position, and to be honest, there are few who are better than him. At the front of a 3 man midfield, he is world class. Chelsea won back to back titles with him in the team. He put in MOM performances against Barca. He is a world class player, hence why he is constantly linked to the big two in Spain.

Gerrard. I have many problems with Gerrard as a player, deeply flawed in some regards, but he is top class. He has the ability to win a match on his own almost, and the CL final shows that quite clearly.

Hargreaves. His performances for United this season have been top class. Arsenal especially. Has won four league titles. Three German cups. The Champions League. And was European U-21 player of the year. He is only 26.

Joe Cole is a fantastic player. Anyone who can't see that is just blind. The season before last he was arguably the driving force behind Chelsea's drive to the title. Has pace, has flair, scores big goals.

Becks has never been top class, let alone world class

That is one of the stupidest statements made on this board. Anyone you watched him last season for Real Madrid saw just how good he is. Twice runner up in UEFA player of the year, behind Figo and Rivaldo. He is certainly fading as a player, which I stated. His crossing and deadball? Stop listening to RTE crap. His range of passing is beyond exceptional. No he can't beat players, but he doesn't need to, it's not his game.

Terry in comparison to Maldini? Nobody can compare with Maldini. Cannavaro? You watch him last season for Real Madrid? Terry is top class.

Ferdinand is better than Terry. Different style of player, but better. There's a reason United were able to win 6 games in a row 1-0 this season, i'll let you
guess why.

Ashley Cole is one of the best left backs in the word. This was commonly accepted up to 2 years ago. For Chelsea he hasn't been as good, but is still top class. Evra is better than him in England currently, that's about it.

Neville. Captain of United. Won the league with them last season, while he was fantastic. Has won the premiership 7 times. Won the Champions League. 3 FA Cups aswell. Universally respected by pretty much every professional player. He is one of the best RB's in the world.

Rooney has the potential to be world class? Yet Messi is mentioned as the type of player that England need? Is he world class already?

Look again at the England teamsheet, there's no Messi or Kaka on there. It's plainly obvious that the team is devoid of any invention or functioning brain.

England are potentially on par with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France & Argentina, but based on their performances they are forever stuck on par with the perennial under achievers like Spain, Holland etc.

To call their players world class is delusional.

Well that's what I said. As a whole, the team is seriosly flawed. But the players are there, they just don't match each other.

As for this logic, how are England potentialy on par with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France, Argentina if all of their players aren't world class?

event wrote: »

fabregas - xavi - scholes - deco - pirlo - kaka - these are players i would have as attacking midfielders. All better than the two mentioned IMO

At the front of a 3 man midfield?
Pirlo doesn't play in that position. Xavi doesn't really either. Xavi and Pirlo are deeper lying passers of the ball who can get forward, but it's not their primary thing. Fabregas doesn't either really. He's a box-to-box player. His form this year has been great, but he has only recently added goals to his game.

essien - mascherano - diarra - cambiasso - gattuso - all better than hargreaves IMO

What has Mascherano done to get in there? Diarra was ****e for Madrid last season and this season hasn't been great either. Essien is incredible, no doubt about that. Gattuso and Cambiasso are great aswell. Hargreaves is up there with them though, in you want to see that, watch Hargreaves in the Milan ties last year.

I notice how all the comparisions you have with players are nearly all people playing outside of the premiership, the league people watch most. The reason for this? Because people look much better in the highlights and the odd game, in comparision to watching them consistantly over the season.

Mr.Nice Guy

Interesting comments from Keano on England

Villain

PHB wrote: »

Ferdinand is better than Terry. Different style of player, but better.

ROFL

PHB I was reading your post thinking you were been fairly unbiased and what you were saying was making sense then you went and said the above. Seriously? Do you honestly believe Rio Ferdinand is better than Terry?

I know your a United fan but thats crazy most of my mates that are United fans admit Ferdinand is a weak link. Jesus if Ferdinand is better than Terry, Laursen for Villa must be the best defender in the PL because he is classes above Ferdinand this season.

kryogen

absolute rubbish Rio is one of the best central midfielders in the world..... does he have lapses in concentration in tight games? no he doesnt, hes a leader and a fantastic defender. im getting really sick of people lavishing praise on carragher, terry, carvalho etc and saying rio is crap, its just bull**** to be honest, he would walk into anybodys first 11

Smegball

I also think Terry is over-rated, great defender yes, world class I don't think so, I'd rather have Carvalho tbh.

Savman

PHB wrote: »

The basis of how good they are should be their club teams, how they do in the premiership and how they do in the CL. As such..

So we should just ignore their massive failures at International level?

Lampard. In the last three years, he's scored more than 20 goals every season. Has gotten 16, 10, and 16 assists each season. Mourinho said he thinks he's the best in the world at that position, and to be honest, there are few who are better than him. At the front of a 3 man midfield, he is world class. Chelsea won back to back titles with him in the team. He put in MOM performances against Barca. He is a world class player, hence why he is constantly linked to the big two in Spain.

I'm a big admirer of Lampard actually. He is class, just not world class.

Gerrard. I have many problems with Gerrard as a player, deeply flawed in some regards, but he is top class. He has the ability to win a match on his own almost, and the CL final shows that quite clearly.

I've watched a bit of Gerrard lately, superb talent indeed but he has a tendancy for these 70 yard fancy passes that dont come off, if he can't do it at International level he cannot be regarded as world class. A good World Cup is all him and Lampard need to show how good they really are, if they do the biz I'll concede their legendary world class status, until then they are just overhyped Sky babies.

Hargreaves. His performances for United this season have been top class. Arsenal especially. Has won four league titles. Three German cups. The Champions League. And was European U-21 player of the year. He is only 26.

Hargreaves is a very good player, no doubt, just not world class.

Joe Cole is a fantastic player. Anyone who can't see that is just blind. The season before last he was arguably the driving force behind Chelsea's drive to the title. Has pace, has flair, scores big goals.

"Fantastic player" does not mean "world class"
I'm a big fan of Jole Cole incidentally.

That is one of the stupidest statements made on this board. Anyone you watched him last season for Real Madrid saw just how good he is. Twice runner up in UEFA player of the year, behind Figo and Rivaldo. He is certainly fading as a player, which I stated. His crossing and deadball? Stop listening to RTE crap. His range of passing is beyond exceptional. No he can't beat players, but he doesn't need to, it's not his game.

Whatever, I just never saw the big deal with Becks. Maybe his off field lifestyle taints my view of him, dressing up in womens clothes and the like.

Terry in comparison to Maldini? Nobody can compare with Maldini. Cannavaro? You watch him last season for Real Madrid? Terry is top class.

I'm a huge John Terry fan, would just like to see him tested at the top level but I think he'd handle it well. Like I said, his status as best in the world is debatable.

Ferdinand is better than Terry.

That is one of the stupidest statements made on this board.

Ashley Cole is one of the best left backs in the word. This was commonly accepted up to 2 years ago. For Chelsea he hasn't been as good, but is still top class. Evra is better than him in England currently, that's about it.

Neville. Captain of United. Won the league with them last season, while he was fantastic. Has won the premiership 7 times. Won the Champions League. 3 FA Cups aswell. Universally respected by pretty much every professional player. He is one of the best RB's in the world.

Careful, sounds like your United bias might be shining through here. If Ashley Cole is one of the best LB's in the world and you say Evra is now better,I guess that means Evra is now world class too. Anyone else you want to award the world class title to? John O Shea perhaps?:rolleyes:

Rooney has the potential to be world class? Yet Messi is mentioned as the type of player that England need? Is he world class already?

Yes he is, IMHO, simply because he does it at the very top level consistently. Rooney has been stop start for the last year or so with injuries or whatever, maybe he would've made a difference against Croatia, maybe not, who knows. All I'm saying here is Rooney has the chance to do it, if those supposedly top class players around him can manage to hold it together long enough to get to the big games in tournaments etc.

You seem to think I'm giving these players undue criticism, in fact I'm more critical of your use of the coveted term "World Class" because I watched enough of Zidane to know what world class really is and as good as England's best may be, the truth is they just fall short of that calibre no matter what stats you try pull out of the bag. It's no great shame, world class players are few and far between and it doesn't mean they can't do very well as a team. But I have to laugh when I hear the term being banded about every time football fans run out of superlatives.

Germany last year are a perfect example of how a team with no real superstars or egos can rally together and reach the WC Semi Finals. England, and quite possibly Ireland too, could take a leaf out of that book.

Or closer to home, Scotland were unlucky not to qualify for Euro '08, they gave the world champions a game and beat France along the way but I don't hear anyone going on about McFadden, Ferguson & co. being world class. Unlike England's players who get both unfair criticism and undue hype in equal measure.

Savman

kryogen wrote: »

absolute rubbish Rio is one of the best central midfielders in the world..... does he have lapses in concentration in tight games? no he doesnt, hes a leader and a fantastic defender.

Man you're confused.

Attractive Nun

Savman wrote: »

You seem to think I'm giving these players undue criticism, in fact I'm more critical of your use of the coveted term "World Class" because I watched enough of Zidane to know what world class really is and as good as England's best may be, the truth is they just fall short of that calibre no matter what stats you try pull out of the bag. It's no great shame, world class players are few and far between and it doesn't mean they can't do very well as a team. But I have to laugh when I hear the term being banded about every time football fans run out of superlatives.

Germany last year are a perfect example of how a team with no real superstars or egos can rally together and reach the WC Semi Finals. England, and quite possibly Ireland too, could take a leaf out of that book.

Or closer to home, Scotland were unlucky not to qualify for Euro '08, they gave the world champions a game and beat France along the way but I don't hear anyone going on about McFadden, Ferguson & co. being world class. Unlike England's players who get both unfair criticism and undue hype in equal measure.

What sort of standard are you using here? Zidane is one of the greatest players in history, an absolutely unbelievable footballer. 'World class' is a vague term, but surely one doesn't have to be amongst the greatest players in history to qualify as 'world class'.

Lampard and Terry are two of Chelsea's most important, and consistent, players. Rooney and Ferdinand are two of Man United's most important players. Hagreaves has been a hugely important player for Bayern Munich and now for United. Beckham has done it at the highest level for United and Real Madrid (though is declining). Gerrard is Liverpool's key player. Ashley Cole and Gary Neville have been the established fullbacks - basically unchallenged - at United, Arsenal and Chelsea for years and years.

These are some of the best clubs in the world. Liverpool, United and Chelsea were all in the CL semi-finals last season. Arsenal were there the year before. Real Madrid, in no small part thanks to Beckham, won La Liga last season. Bayern - in Hargreaves' time - won everything in sight. United, Chelsea and Arsenal have dominated the Premiership for nearly a decade. England's starting XI represents some of the best players of these clubs, players who would be capable of playing for any club in the world.

Some of England's players may be overrated and overhyped by the English media, but they are nevertheless world class players by any reasonable definition of the term. They don't play well together, no doubt, but the European Championships will still be a weaker competition for the loss of players like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard and John Terry.

That said, I wasn't exactly upset by England's failure to qualify.

Nunu

Attractive Nun wrote: »

What sort of standard are you using here? Zidane is one of the greatest players in history, an absolutely unbelievable footballer. 'World class' is a vague term, but surely one doesn't have to be amongst the greatest players in history to qualify as 'world class'.

Lampard and Terry are two of Chelsea's most important, and consistent, players. Rooney and Ferdinand are two of Man United's most important players. Hagreaves has been a hugely important player for Bayern Munich and now for United. Beckham has done it at the highest level for United and Real Madrid (though is declining). Gerrard is Liverpool's key player. Ashley Cole and Gary Neville have been the established fullbacks - basically unchallenged - at United, Arsenal and Chelsea for years and years.

These are some of the best clubs in the world. Liverpool, United and Chelsea were all in the CL semi-finals last season. Arsenal were there the year before. Real Madrid, in no small part thanks to Beckham, won La Liga last season. Bayern - in Hargreaves' time - won everything in sight. United, Chelsea and Arsenal have dominated the Premiership for nearly a decade. England's starting XI represents some of the best players of these clubs, players who would be capable of playing for any club in the world.

Some of England's players may be overrated and overhyped by the English media, but they are nevertheless world class players by any reasonable definition of the term. They don't play well together, no doubt, but the European Championships will still be a weaker competition for the loss of players like Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard and John Terry.

That said, I wasn't exactly upset by England's failure to qualify.

What he said.


..I think Savman must be confusing genius with world class. England have about 7 world class players by my definition of the term.

Mental Mickey

Nunu wrote: »

What he said.


..I think Savman must be confusing genius with world class. England have about 7 world class players by my definition of the term.

7 world class players??? Come on!!!??? Name em???

Lampard is over-rated, Gerrard is over-rated(and lazy). I don't think they have a world class player amongst them???

Nunu

Mental Mickey wrote: »

[/B]

7 world class players??? Come on!!!??? Name em???

Lampard is over-rated, Gerrard is over-rated(and lazy). I don't think they have a world class player amongst them???

I wasn't even thinking of those 2:D

World Class in the position they play:

Neville
A. Cole
Ferdinand
Terry
Hargreaves
Rooney
Owen

jameshayes

Nunu wrote: »

I wasn't even thinking of those 2:D

World Class in the position they play:

Neville
A. Cole
Ferdinand
Terry
Hargreaves
Rooney
Owen

It's sad when you think of how many Ireland have!!

Hang on I'll name them,

Well... Erm.... Ok, maybe No 'world classs' exactly, maybe some average players...

1. Duff - overrated & and a walking injury
2. Keane - can anyone spell B.I.G head - I heard they need to vent gas from it every 4 hours
3. O'Shea - Great player, not many people see it tho (well on SAF)
4. Dunne - Not world class but almost
5. Finnan - good player, getting old...
6. Kilbane - Muppet.
7. Reid - good player but they needed to open 2 extra burger vans outside croker
8. Ah man, the list is getting small...

Dont know why I'm writing this, must be going crazy

shane86

Tauren wrote: »

they were still going out before that free was given weren't they, didn't they need to win the game to qualify?

Only to guarantee it. IIRC they wouldve needed to depend on a French loss in Ukraine to go through, anyone hearr the result?


jameshayes- Shay Given would easily be Englands first choice goalie had he been born there (truth to be told he would be the first choice of most European teams had he born in whatever country). Finnan would get his game for England Id reckon. Currently Doyle and Hunt would be the types they would test in friendlies and B games to ascertain their ability for competivies.

kincsem

England players are only world class in the sense that they they do not live on another planet.

They didn't get far in the last World Cup, and failed to qualify for the upcoming European Championships. If you look at the EUFA website you will see the selected / voted list of top players in the World Cup. Not one English player among them.

1998 World Cup: lost to Argentina in the 2nd round
2002 World Cup: lost to Brazil in quarter-finals
2006 World Cup: lost to Portugal in quarter-finals

At best they reach the World Cup quarter-finals, so not world class.

Would any of the present players get into the Brazil; Argentina; Germany; Italy; Spain teams if they qualified on birth, parents, grandparents criteria? I don't think any would get a game.

I like to hear people bigging up the England team. I'm sure they will be 10/1 to win the next World Cup after the draw on Sunday. Their fans will say they will have a new manager, and will play better in World Cup qualifying.

Let's be realistic. Croatia beat England at home. Croatia were the group leaders. At Wembley Croatia were 8/1 to win. That was a very generous price for the group leaders. England played one forward, and were missing first-choice defenders. I put €50 at 20s on Croatia to lead at half time and full time.

England are a dream team ...... for gamblers. They are vastly over-rated, and over-bet.

Savman

Nunu wrote: »

..I think Savman must be confusing genius with world class. England have about 7 world class players by my definition of the term.

Fine, believe that if you want.

Villain

kryogen wrote: »

absolute rubbish Rio is one of the best central midfielders in the world..... does he have lapses in concentration in tight games? no he doesnt, hes a leader and a fantastic defender. im getting really sick of people lavishing praise on carragher, terry, carvalho etc and saying rio is crap, its just bull**** to be honest, he would walk into anybodys first 11

ROFL you see you might have had some argument if you knew which position he played in:D

Tusky

Why is everyone having such disagreements over players being world class ? Its not exactly an exact science...there isnt even a set definition of the term world class.

The fact is, England have a very very good squad of players. Alot of them would walk into almost any club in the world. (Terry, Cole x2, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney to name but a few). In my opinion the squad is among the best of any international team.

event

PHB wrote: »

At the front of a 3 man midfield?
Pirlo doesn't play in that position. Xavi doesn't really either. Xavi and Pirlo are deeper lying passers of the ball who can get forward, but it's not their primary thing. Fabregas doesn't either really. He's a box-to-box player. His form this year has been great, but he has only recently added goals to his game.

so he is only world class when he has two others backing him up?
jesus, if you are truly WC you could play in a two man central midfield or a three man

PHB wrote:

What has Mascherano done to get in there? Diarra was ****e for Madrid last season and this season hasn't been great either. Essien is incredible, no doubt about that. Gattuso and Cambiasso are great aswell. Hargreaves is up there with them though, in you want to see that, watch Hargreaves in the Milan ties last year.

I notice how all the comparisions you have with players are nearly all people playing outside of the premiership, the league people watch most. The reason for this? Because people look much better in the highlights and the odd game, in comparision to watching them consistantly over the season.

i like how you presume i only watch highlights of overseas games.
mascherano has been excellent for his country since he started, he was great in the world cup

diarra was far from ****e last year, he was a key player in the way capello played, and helped win them the league. he has also proved himself in the champs league with lyon

look, i wont doubt beckham and neville were world class, but not anymore, thats unbelieveably biased.