Will the unthinkable (to them) happen England this weekend?

ziggy

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mike65

Nice to see you never forget (to hold a grudge).

Club over country? tut tut.

Mike.

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mike65 wrote: »

Club over country? tut tut.

It's the only to be tbh.

TwoShedsJackson

Hopefully not, it's far funnier to see the Fleet St rags build the team up until the inevitable scraping through the group stages followed by a quarter final exit on penalties.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

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Ziggy...cant say i ever had you down as the stereotypical celtic fan?
TBH win lose or draw its never a massive deal for me when it comes to scotland...but id rather see them win than not.

Bubs101

DaveMcG wrote: »

Steve Coppell thinks quotas on non-English players in the Premiership is the answer.

Is he a moron...?

No, but you might be. The last nation to put quota's on foreign players, Italy
The last World Champions, Italy
In 2006 which team had every single player based domestically, Italy


It works

ziggy

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Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

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What the same anti celtic history that saw one of the greatest players in football, let alone scottish footballs history get something like 24 caps??
That saw ally McCoist dropped every time we qualified for a major final?

Paranoia mate

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Bubs101 wrote: »

No, but you might be. The last nation to put quota's on foreign players, Italy
The last World Champions, Italy
In 2006 which team had every single player based domestically, Italy


It works

Would it work for Ireland?

DerekD Goldfish

Bubs101 wrote: »

No, but you might be. The last nation to put quota's on foreign players, Italy
The last World Champions, Italy
In 2006 which team had every single player based domestically, Italy


It works

Italy won the WC in 82 and 06 in the wake of match fixing scandals
maybe tahts what england need?

Bubs101

Calciopoli wasn't a match fixing scandal, it was a scandal over referee selection and if you have seen any of Juve's matches this season and in particular the penalties given against them, their actions seem to be justified.

As for whether it would work in Ireland, quite clearly not. Ireland is a tiny country with a terrible standard of football and I wouldn't consider N'do on par with the flood of foreigners across the pond

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Bubs101 wrote: »

As for whether it would work in Ireland, quite clearly not. Ireland is a tiny country with a terrible standard of football and I wouldn't consider N'do on par with the flood of foreigners across the pond

I wasn't exactly getting at that though.

IF there was a world wide cap on foreigners in a different country, then what makes people think the English sides would hang on to their Irish players?

There are far better players available from the majority of other european countries.

What would happen if we took the Italian route and decided that no-one who plays outside ireland could play for us? Seems to have worked for Italy, in fact someone said it was a great plan.

DerekD Goldfish

Bubs101 wrote: »

Calciopoli wasn't a match fixing scandal, it was a scandal over referee selection and if you have seen any of Juve's matches this season and in particular the penalties given against them, their actions seem to be justified.

Yes because I was being completely serious with the rest of the suggestion.,
and IO think Italy remove their first ban on forigners(still had limits) just before they won the 82 world cup and they(under fifas direction) removed the ban on them totaly (well for EC at least) years ago and there are nearly as many forigners in Siere A as the Premership so banning forigners is no way to acheive success.

Bubs101

There are nowhere near the amount of foreigners in Serie A as there were 10 years ago. In the big teams fair enough, there are alot of them their but the lower teams are trying to build the squad around italians. Sampdoria and Udinese are great examples. Back in the day you would have lower teams building their team around an expensive foreigner, like Lalas with Padova and fail but now similar teams are using italians, like Chiesa at Siena.

As for the the Irish in England, practically all of them would qualify for dual citizenship one way or the other. The young players go their so early it's not exactly hard to see them clocking up their 5 years in no time or considering the proximity and history between the countries, it would be fairly easy for a player to find a grandparent from one of the 4 countries in the U.K.Also, were something like that to be brough in in England, there would almost certainly be an exception made for the Home countries.

Also, the Italians picked all of their players domestically, not because of a rule that all players had to be playing in Italy to be considered, but because of the new rules their were far more young italian players playing for the lower teams who played themselves into contention, like Iaquinta taking Cassano's place

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Bubs101 wrote: »

As for the the Irish in England, practically all of them would qualify for dual citizenship one way or the other. The young players go their so early it's not exactly hard to see them clocking up their 5 years in no time or considering the proximity and history between the countries, it would be fairly easy for a player to find a grandparent from one of the 4 countries in the U.K.Also, were something like that to be brough in in England, there would almost certainly be an exception made for the Home countries.

There wasn't before?

Bubs101

There wasn't what before? Are you suggesting that if the England set up an anti-foreigner rule in the Premiership that Scotsmen and Welschmen would count

_blank_

When UEFA had the three foreigner rule, I think Giggs counted for United.

Anyway, Scotland, Wales and NI are part of the UK.

The Republic isn't. Irish players were certainly NOT exempt at the time. It's part of the reason Souness got rid of most of the Irish players at Liverpool, contrary to the belief that he hates irish people.

NotWormBoy

DesF wrote: »

What would happen if we took the Italian route and decided that no-one who plays outside ireland could play for us? Seems to have worked for Italy, in fact someone said it was a great plan.

We'd have a national side devoid of even the mediocre talent we have at the moment.

Bubs101

But Scotland, Wales, England and Norn Iron all have different FA's hence why the UK can't enter a football team in the olympics but I find it hard to think that if the FA, not UEFA, implemented a quota that Home Nations wouldn't be exempt

_blank_

Why would the Republic of Ireland be treated differently than say, France, Italy or Germany, in your opinion?

Is the Republic actually a "home nation"?

I don't think so, we weren't involved in the "Home International" competition all those years ago.

We are a completely seperate entity, in fact.

No, Irish players would be treated no differently to Spaniards, Latvians or Swedes.

Is there some reason for your thinking, or is it a "just because"? I'm genuinly curious.

gosplan

DesF wrote: »

I wasn't exactly getting at that though.

IF there was a world wide cap on foreigners in a different country, then what makes people think the English sides would hang on to their Irish players?

There are far better players available from the majority of other european countries.

What would happen if we took the Italian route and decided that no-one who plays outside ireland could play for us? Seems to have worked for Italy, in fact someone said it was a great plan.

yeah but the opposite has worked for France, Brazil and Argentina.

gosplan

Bubs101 wrote: »

No, but you might be. The last nation to put quota's on foreign players, Italy
The last World Champions, Italy
In 2006 which team had every single player based domestically, Italy

It works

France have a comparible record in recent years with nearly all of their players playing abroad. So that works as well then?

Last world champions on penalties. If France won the shootout would you totally reverse your argument?

England had Beckham and Hargreaves playing abroad. Do you think that that's why Italy were better then them.

Bit of an X + Y does not always equal Z to be honest.

The italians won because they have a 60 million population who pretty much only play football, therefore every so often they'll take a world cup.

England's problem is that they have about 40 million who are split between football, rugby and cricket.

Realistically with the quality of their team 1/4 finals is about where they should be. That's where they were consistantly getting, one lucky step away from the semi's until they fired their most consistant manager ever.

Fratton Fred

The EU would have a fit if the FA tried to bring this in. "Sorry, we can't give you a job you're from Ireland" doesn't exactly fit with the EU freedom of movement laws.

It aint gonna happen.

Bubs101

DesF wrote: »

Why would the Republic of Ireland be treated differently than say, France, Italy or Germany, in your opinion?

Is the Republic actually a "home nation"?

I don't think so, we weren't involved in the "Home International" competition all those years ago.

We are a completely seperate entity, in fact.

No, Irish players would be treated no differently to Spaniards, Latvians or Swedes.

Is there some reason for your thinking, or is it a "just because"? I'm genuinly curious.

Well, for one, the two countries have a very special relationship and good Irish players have always gone and stayed there (with the exceptioon of Brady). I would expect an exemption to be made due to the nature of the countries' history. If one of the former Yugoslav states had a strong foorball league and decided to put in a quota to protect it's national team, I would expect exemptions to be made for the other 4 countires aswell (if their international relationship was as warm as ours to the UK)

Also, if a rule like that was introduced in the U.K., how would you expect it to affect the likes of Lee Trundle, who decide to change nationality in the middle of their careers?

Pepe LeFrits

Bubs101 wrote: »

No, but you might be. The last nation to put quota's on foreign players, Italy
The last World Champions, Italy
In 2006 which team had every single player based domestically, Italy


It works

What quota are the current Italian champions, Inter, operating then?

PHB

The only restrictions they are allowed put are ones on outside the EU.
The Italian thing is simply that nobody goes outside of Serie A because they tend to get overlooked. Germany used to have the same thing. Although that changed and so will Italy's.

It's all about population and the percentage of which play soccer. Ireland does incredibly well for such a small nation that is spilt between Soccer Rugby and GAA.

Unearthly

People forget when the premiership was dominated by English players in 1993, England failed to even make the World Cup

PHB

Exactly, the problem is at the youth set up. Ever wonder why there's loads of Spanish\Italian youngsters stolen by all the clubs over Europe, but nobody ever takes English kids?

Nunu

Well looks like Joe Cole doesn't have much faith in England qualifying...or maybe he just thinks they'll go out on penos again:D

Joe and Carly Set Date for WAG Wedding

Wedding news from footballer Joe Cole and WAG Carly Zucker, as it seems they have set the date for their wedding, which will take place next year. The wedding date is said to be June 28th 2008 - the date, for football fans, will raise a few eyebrows, as this is the day before the Euro 2008 Final match!

Maybe by picking the date in question, Joe, who is 25 and plays for Chelsea, is counting on the fact that England are uncertain to even qualify for next year’s competition, let alone make it to the final match! Carly, who is 23, now has 8 months to plan her perfect WAG Wedding! Of course if England manage to beat Croatia in November, and Russia lose their matches, and then England win all their games to get to the final of the competition, THEN, Joe and Carly will of course, change the wedding date. You never know, miracles do happen!

http://www.wedding-news.co.uk/joe-cole-and-carly-zucker-wedding-news-2


I think, somehow, qualification will be in Englands hands come the Wembley showdown with Croatia....either Croatia will inexplicably lose away to Macedonia or more likely Russia will drop points in Israel.

Mr Alan

i know they are facing a serious struggle to qualify, but i think if i was mc claren i'd hit the ****ing roof about that!

ShiverinEskimo

Nunu wrote: »

Well looks like Joe Cole doesn't have much faith in England qualifying...or maybe he just thinks they'll go out on penos again:D



http://www.wedding-news.co.uk/joe-cole-and-carly-zucker-wedding-news-2


I think, somehow, qualification will be in Englands hands come the Wembley showdown with Croatia....either Croatia will inexplicably lose away to Macedonia or more likely Russia will drop points in Israel.

Slightly OT, But, Dude, why on earth were you on www.wedding-news.co.uk?

Nunu

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Slightly OT, But, Dude, why on earth were you on www.wedding-news.co.uk?

It's my homepage...I have a problem, I'm typing this in a wedding dress:o

ziggy

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Eirebear

I dont really want to get into this one tbh mate...too big a can of worms and too far OT for this thread.
But one **** up does not a history make.....Mr farry damn near ruined scottish football in general.

ziggy

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patmac

No England and possibly Italy either. The upside to England not qualifying is good news for the Swiss and Austrians in general. The last time it happened was 1984(one of the best ever IMO) only 8 teams competed in the finals then so if England didn't qualify it would be their worst qualifying performance ever. There was no TV coverage in England (thank God for RTE) up until the Semi-Final when BBC decided that even though England wern't in it that somebody might be interested in watching it. Anyway France were playing Spain in the final (Platini was in great form) and Jimmy Hill announced that Bobby Charlton had something very important to say, cue Bobby; "I honestly believe England would be in the Final if they had qualified for the tournament". I was devastated by the comment, a real hero of mine had convieniently forgotten that England weren't good enough to qualify for the Finals in the first place!(Beaten 1-0 by Denmark at Wembley). Anyway if they don't qualify(that would be nice) what odds on an English pundit(probably Ian Wright) making the same statement as Sir Bobby.

BaZmO*

I think England will still qualify. England need to win their match against Croatia which is doable as it's a home game. That'll put them on 26 pts.

So assuming the Russians will beat Andorra in their last match they will need to beat Israel as a draw or loss will not be good enough.

Israel are not an easy team to get a result from in Tel-Aviv. And so far in this campaign the Russians only managed a draw at home to them.

Also, by the looks of things so far the Russians haven't travelled well against the bigger teams losing 3-0 to England and only managing a draw against Croatia.

It only depends on the match in Tel-Aviv on Saturday but they are not out yet by any means.

Fratton Fred

patmac wrote: »

No England and possibly Italy either. The upside to England not qualifying is good news for the Swiss and Austrians in general.

Are you not confusing the Swiss and Austrians with the Russians and Croatians, or am I missing something?

patmac wrote: »

The last time it happened was 1984(one of the best ever IMO) only 8 teams competed in the finals then so if England didn't qualify it would be their worst qualifying performance ever. There was no TV coverage in England (thank God for RTE) up until the Semi-Final when BBC decided that even though England wern't in it that somebody might be interested in watching it. Anyway France were playing Spain in the final (Platini was in great form) and Jimmy Hill announced that Bobby Charlton had something very important to say, cue Bobby; "I honestly believe England would be in the Final if they had qualified for the tournament". I was devastated by the comment, a real hero of mine had convieniently forgotten that England weren't good enough to qualify for the Finals in the first place!(Beaten 1-0 by Denmark at Wembley). Anyway if they don't qualify(that would be nice) what odds on an English pundit(probably Ian Wright) making the same statement as Sir Bobby.

I find the BBC shocking, how can an Irish TV station be so biased. They should change their name to the British Broadcasting Corporation and move their headquarters to London.

Or maybe you should just rely on RTE:rolleyes:

aidan24326

~Rebel~ wrote: »

People say we're living in a dreamworld expecting too much from the Irish squad of players, but the level England do it to puts us in the shade.

The problem for England is their media build the players up into superstars and everything is wildly exaggerated. The same media then take some kind of twisted pleasure in dancing on their grave when something goes wrong (as it always does).

Alot of England's players are over-rated, that's the reality of it. Overpaid, overhyped and over-rated. This team have done a great job of talking themselves up, the likes of Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard aren't exactly modest humble types, they love themselves and yet their performances haven't stacked up when push has come to shove. I won't be one bit sorry to see them fall on their arses yet again like the over-rated prima donnas they are.

EDIT: Croatia and Russia both have difficult games at the weekend so England not out of it yet. Israel is not an easy place to go and win, and it's not a given that the Croats will win in Macedonia either, they're not a pushover by any means.

patmac

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you not confusing the Swiss and Austrians with the Russians and Croatians, or am I missing something?

The Final's are been held in Switzerland and Austria.

I find the BBC shocking, how can an Irish TV station be so biased. They should change their name to the British Broadcasting Corporation and move their headquarters to London.

Or maybe you should just rely on RTE:rolleyes:

? I was relaying a BBC story.

Eirebear

ziggy wrote: »

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Look forward to it mate

county

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are you not confusing the Swiss and Austrians with the Russians and Croatians, or am I missing something?

you`re missing the stereotypical view of patmac that all english fans are hooligans

Fratton Fred

county wrote: »

you`re missing the stereotypical view of patmac that all english fans are hooligans

was I

Fratton Fred

patmac wrote: »

? I was relaying a BBC story.

I would be surprised if both those countries wouldn't want the extra 100,000 or so visitors they would get if England qualify. anyway, at the moment they are probably more worried that Italy will get through.

Still, while we are stereotyping, at least they don;t have to worry about those nasty old Boh's fans going though

patmac

county wrote: »

you`re missing the stereotypical view of patmac that all english fans are hooligans

Who said anything about all? History dictates that England still have a small hooligan problem that despite having improved in the last World Cup would mean a lot of Austrian and Swiss buisnesses will be pleased if England don't qualify. You just have to go back to this year's Champion's League to see that it hasn't gone away.

Fratton Fred

patmac wrote: »

Who said anything about all? History dictates that England still have a small hooligan problem that despite having improved in the last World Cup would mean a lot of Austrian and Swiss buisnesses will be pleased if England don't qualify. You just have to go back to this year's Champion's League to see that it hasn't gone away.

It hasn't gone away, but I'm not sure Croatia or Russia will be any more welcome.

Anyway, since when were Man United fans English?:D

mike65

Well that was a disaster, Owen with muscle tear.

Prolly Crouch (who scored, could have had a few by the looks of it) and a Spurs striker up front. MacClaren truly is a twat, how do you have a dress-rehearsal if you make 5 or six changes during the match, including 3 in one go?

Mike.

Nunu

The scheduling of this fixture, away from home of all things, just shows how arrogant England were about this group. They honestly thought they would be qualified by this stage.

They are now without pretty much their first choice backline (Terry, Ferdinand, Neville) and frontline (Owen, Rooney). It wouldn't surprise me now if Russia fail to beat Israel but likewise England fail against Croatia and go out.

BaZmO*

mike65 wrote: »

Well that was a disaster, Owen with muscle tear.

Is he made out of matchsticks or something?

And why are they playing a friendly before such an important qualifier?

BaZmO*

Nunu wrote: »

The scheduling of this fixture, away from home of all things, just shows how arrogant England were about this group. They honestly thought they would be qualified by this stage.

You've just answered my question.

Nunu wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me now if Russia fail to beat Israel but likewise England fail against Croatia and go out.

I still think that Russian will only manage a draw at best against Israel.