Unidentified fish(?)

jmkennedyie

A friend photographed this skull washed up off the Wexford coast recently...any ideas what it might be? The skull is perhaps 10 inches from bottom left to top right in the photo. The 'teeth' on the tongue(?) certainly surprised us both...

Thanks!

Alun

I'd guess at a male salmon. When they come in to spawn they change quite dramatically .. they change colour to a deep red, and the skulls of the males develop those hooked jaws and teeth you can see. Sometimes they also develop a hump on their backs ... ugly feckers they are.

dodgyme

Alun wrote: »

... ugly feckers they are.

They're the business and possibly you are right, the hook jaw looks like a male salmon. Hopefully some survived and made it to spawn.

Zzippy

Much too big for a salmon if those dimensions are accurate. Teeth too big too. The kype (hooked jaw of male salmon in breeding condition) is a different shape.
Definitely a predatory fish, lower jaw looks longer than upper, possibly a conger eel

dodgyme

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

Much too big for a salmon if those dimensions are accurate. Teeth too big too.

Depends how big the salmon was. I agree in general but I remember a salmon of 70+ pounds being netted on the moy estruary a number of years ago. If it was the skull of a big spring salmon, that could be anything between 10 and 25 pounds and may be big enough. Although a conger sounds very plausible esp looking at the teeth.

Zzippy

dodgyme wrote: »

Depends how big the salmon was. I agree in general but I remember a salmon of 70+ pounds being netted on the moy estruary a number of years ago. If it was the skull of a big spring salmon, that could be anything between 10 and 25 pounds and may be big enough. Although a conger sounds very plausible esp looking at the teeth.

70+ pounds would be a record fish, I work in fisheries so I'm very surprised I've never heard about that one. Even a large spring salmon (25lbs) wouldn't have a head that big.
Also occurred to me, the skull was found on the coast, but the kype on salmon doesn't develop until they've been in freshwater a while, coming up to spawning time (December). By that time the fish would be well upstream.

dodgyme

Galwayguy99 wrote: »

70+ pounds would be a record fish, I work in fisheries so I'm very surprised I've never heard about that one. Even a large spring salmon (25lbs) wouldn't have a head that big.
Also occurred to me, the skull was found on the coast, but the kype on salmon doesn't develop until they've been in freshwater a while, coming up to spawning time (December). By that time the fish would be well upstream.

the 70+ big netted fish was mentioned in the western people at the time and wasnt a record because it was netted, the record (rod and line record) is some woman in scotland with a 64lb I think. It would be around 18 or 19 years ago that the 70+ pounder was netted, drift net off west coast near estruary to moy (I will google later to see if there is any record of it on the net and exactly where it was pulled in). You are right about the Jaw that is develops more on the journey up stream, but like wise if it was a salmon head there are many reasons it could be found on a beach and with the pronounced jaw. It could be a kelt or spent salmon on the way back, it could be dropped by a bird or even washed up from flooding, or even from the other side of the atlantic.

dodgyme

cant find a ref on the net yet for the salmon I was on about but did find that an 83 lb salmon was netted in Ireland in 1882. flippin hell.

yank_in_eire

That looks like a slightly squashed pike skull.

Kess73

Not a bad call by the poster who said it looked like a flattened pike skull. It is quite similar except for the eye socket.


My best bet is that it is a Moray eel skull, maybe what was left from one that died in an aquarium and was dumped. The lower jaw looking longer than the upper one, along with the general shape leads me to think this. The "tongue" is not actually a tongue, it looks like the pharyngeal jaws that many large eel and some other fish have. Basically it is a small second set of jaws that sits back in the throat of the fish. When the eel bites a fish, the outer jaws bite and grasp, and the pharyngeal jaws then grasp from the inside. The eel then opens the first set of jaws and the secondary jaws pull whatever it has bitten inwards. This all happens in an instant.


Of course I just like the idea that it was a moray eel:D


Pike also have pharyngeal jaws, but I am pretty sure that their secondary jaws are more blocklike in look as are most fishes that possess them. Conger and Freshwater eels rely on suction, so do not use pharyngeal jaws.


Below is a link to pic of an x-rayed Moray skull in bite and non bite positions.





http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/09/11/science/11eel1.ready.html

jmkennedyie

Just want to says cheers for the replies...very interesting, have passed them on.