Postgraduate Medicine in Ireland

vodochilie

Hi, I'm a 2nd year biological sciences student who hopes to do a post-grad in medicine, for my 3rd and 4th years of bio-sciences I have to specialise in one of the follow:

Microbiology
Biomedical Sciences
Neuroscience
Physiology

I'm wondering which of these would be most relevant to a future career in medicine, or my other option is to jump ship and study medicine in Scotland.

Cheers

2Scoops

vodochilie wrote: »

Hi, I'm a 2nd year biological sciences student who hopes to do a post-grad in medicine, for my 3rd and 4th years of bio-sciences I have to specialise in one of the follow:

Microbiology
Biomedical Sciences
Neuroscience
Physiology

I'm wondering which of these would be most relevant to a future career in medicine, or my other option is to jump ship and study medicine in Scotland.

Cheers

If you're in a rush, I'd just head straight to Scotland, since you'll end up repeating courses anyway.

Of the the options you've provided, in terms of relevance to medicine I'd recommend physiology, microbiology, neuroscience and biomedical sciences, in that order. I'm sure others will disagree though!

But again, you'll end up repeating them - so it might be a better idea to broaden your knowledge base, in which case I'd bump biomed sci to 2nd place, maybe.

EDIT: what the heck is that poll for??

vodochilie

yeah, biomedical sciences is a side of medicine that doctors don't touch, i think, neuroscince is what I'm thinking at the mo' but if i didn't get med after that my job prospects wouldn't be the best apparently there's very little jobs in that area, and i don't know if ns + med + surgery = neurosurgeon, i have very shakey hands anyway so duck that, thanks for the reply tho!

Nothingcompares

My opinion:

If you're from Ireland and you want to study medicine/be a doctor you should get into a med school as quickly as possible. Your options are to repeat the leaving cert and get the points to get into a undergraduate medschool here, or abroad (perhaps consider doing A-levels), try and jump ship now and get into medicine in Scotland (or the rest of the UK if you're willing to pay) or continue on with your course and apply for graduate medicine to the irish grad med schools or the european ones.

If you decide to stay in your course and apply for graduate medicine, the exact details of your course selection won't matter much. Again, I stress, IMO, a Micro specialistion over Physiology won't make much difference. If will mostly come down to GAMSAT and "co-curricular".

So to summarise, if you stay in college just go with the specialization you enjoy most/think you'll get the best mark in. A 1st class degree is more valuable than a 3rd class degree (with few exceptions).

vodochilie

yeah your on the money there, I've take a few GAMSATs online did well enough, i know a few med students in my year, they are wimps with no social skills, very self-centered, how will they preform in a busy A&E? I think is a matter of toughness, mental strength IMO they don't have that, a doctor needs to be strong a person with an unshakable foundation and be self-sacrificing, I think Ireland will have a decade of horrendous medical care left until the "post grad medical generation" get in, I envision a flight of doctors leaving Ireland who wont be able to compete mentally or physicaly with this new generation, or it could be more of them same if selection turns into who you know rather than what you know

Nothingcompares

vodochilie wrote: »

I've take a few GAMSATs online did well enough

can you elaborate on this? give me a little more info?

InFront

vodochilie wrote: »

i know a few med students in my year, they are wimps with no social skills, very self-centered, how will they preform in a busy A&E?

If they are in your class they are probably only 1st year med; they're a long way from hospitals and will go through all sorts of training and personal development before earning the medical degree.
The "wimps" in your class studying medicine are doing it the way it has been done for a long time now, with a great amount of success down the years.
There's a lot to be said - that usually isn't said - for people who work their asses off to get into medicine from the very beginning, for their work ethic and their commitment. I for one am pretty tired of this all too common assertion that anyone who works their way into med from a good leaving cert is some sort of freak who can't hold a conversation.

My opinion on medical education as it stands is that it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

InFront

vodochilie wrote: »

friend of mine...

You've simply named a few cases where doctors have allegedly made mistakes. You haven't shown how mistakes would be "avoided" under any other method of recruiting students into med.

Being able to achieve over 570 in the LC is something very few people can do...this in no way shows that they will make good doctors

Nobody would argue that. Leaving Cert Results may however be indicative of those who can cope well with the workload of the medical degree, and have shown ambition to do so, in a system whose fairness and impartiality is next to impossible to beat.

the general personality type of such a "gifted" person is in my opinion the opposite to wat a doctor should be

Look, there is no such thing as the general personality of such students. In my medical class, the vast majority of people are well adjusted, regular students perfectly capable of dealing with patients and with stress... despite your impression of the "wimps" studying medicine.

eth0_

Personally I think we should bring back interviews for med school. Yes there are those who have problems with communication skills and that can be taught to them, but there are other people who, at the age of 18, talk in a whisper and can't make eye contact. They might get 600 points but it's unlikely their personality is going to change and make them full of confidence - a good doctor they will not make.

Having met a doctor like this in A+E before (and he wasn't a student either!), it's extremely disconcerting when you're in pain and your doctor gives the impression he doesn't know what he is doing.

InFront

eth0_ wrote: »

Personally I think we should bring back interviews for med school. Yes there are those who have problems with communication skills and that can be taught to them, but there are other people who, at the age of 18, talk in a whisper and can't make eye contact.

Would an interviewer really discern those who can be taught communication skills from those who are 'irreparably anti-social'? How many students do you think you would actually be weeding out of the class on the latter basis? One? Two? I can think of two students in my class who have very bad/ odd bedside manners, and even then, who can say they won't make outstanding Doctors?

a good doctor they will not make.

Are you talking about Doctors or Counsellors? Because if I'm in a life or death situation, I want someone smart in charge, who can bring me back from the edge and save my life, not some great talker who will be able to hug or console my family after me.

eth0_

InFront wrote: »

Are you talking about Doctors or Counsellors? Because if I'm in a life or death situation, I want someone smart in charge, who can bring me back from the edge and save my life, not some great talker who will be able to hug or console my family after me.

Personally i'd like a doctor who can direct people clearly and firmly, and if you're in a life or death situation there is likely to be nurses and other doctors working together. Communication skills are a huge part of it!

As for weeding out the socially inept, there are ways of doing it fairly reliably and hey, if you haven't worked on improving your crippling shyness by the time you're 18 you can try again in a few years time.

I admit I probably wouldn't have this opinion if I hadn't had that experience with that A+E doctor a few years ago who seemed to have no confidence, referred to my toes as 'fingers' (I thought I had broken a bone in my foot), and then put an incorrect support on when he made a diagnosis of a partially torn ligament.

Nothingcompares

eth0_ wrote: »

Personally i'd like a doctor who can direct people clearly and firmly, and if you're in a life or death situation there is likely to be nurses and other doctors working together. Communication skills are a huge part of it!

As for weeding out the socially inept, there are ways of doing it fairly reliably and hey, if you haven't worked on improving your crippling shyness by the time you're 18 you can try again in a few years time.

I admit I probably wouldn't have this opinion if I hadn't had that experience with that A+E doctor a few years ago who seemed to have no confidence, referred to my toes as 'fingers' (I thought I had broken a bone in my foot), and then put an incorrect support on when he made a diagnosis of a partially torn ligament.

I'm not trying to open a racial can of worms but was he irish?

InFront

Unless you mean a possible language barrier it's hardly relevant is it.

Nothingcompares

The language barrier is a genuine problem. A friend of mine is originally from Iran but has lived in America and Ireland for years so is a fluent english speaker but on many many occasions he has to provide some kind of translation service for (yes this is an important deviation from the above story) for medical students.

Secondly, it's FAR FAR FAR more competitive for Irish students to get into Dublin Medical Schools than non-EU students due to the money issue. So I'd imagine it's more likely a non-EU student is incompetent rather than an IRish one because we know at least the irish one can get in the region of 580 points in the leaving and has shown some kind of academic merit.

InFront

Nothingcompares wrote: »

The language barrier is a genuine problem. A friend of mine is originally from Iran but has lived in America and Ireland for years so is a fluent english speaker but on many many occasions he has to provide some kind of translation service for (yes this is an important deviation from the above story) for medical students.

Presumably you mean non-EU trained qualified Doctors as opposed to Irish-trained non-EU students? Have you been through a medical course yourself? Because presumably you understand the impossibility of passing through medicine without having a strong grasp of English? It just cannot be done.

Also, naturally a lot of people struggle with accents, is this what you mean?

Secondly, it's FAR FAR FAR more competitive for Irish students to get into Dublin Medical Schools than non-EU students due to the money issue. So I'd imagine it's more likely a non-EU student is incompetent rather than an IRish one because we know at least the irish one can get in the region of 580 points in the leaving and has shown some kind of academic merit.

Requirements for non-EU students vary. Again, nobody gets through the medical course and onto hospitals unless they have shown themselves to be of a pretty strong academic merit beforehand, the exams taken at seventeen years old become pretty irrelevant. Also you have to take into account the amount of Irish students who repeat their exams (sometimes repeating more than once) to get 580 points, whereas that doesn't tend to be the case with international students.

2Scoops

InFront wrote: »

Presumably you mean non-EU trained qualified Doctors as opposed to Irish-trained non-EU students? Have you been through a medical course yourself? Because presumably you understand the impossibility of passing through medicine without having a strong grasp of English? It just cannot be done.

Also, naturally a lot of people struggle with accents, is this what you mean?

You are correct, of course, in that all medical graduates by virtue of the fact they have graduated, whether non-native English speakers or not, are far from stupid. However, that is not to say there won't be communication problems with fluent English speakers.

You do not need to be fluent in English to graduate with a medical degree from an Irish institution. You do need to know what all the words mean, but you can get away with your grammar being quite poor.

Hence, a doctor can be quite competent but at the same time have difficulty communicating with his/her patients leading to bad impressions like those mentioned above.

eth0_

The doctor I mentioned was Indian. I don't know if he trained in Ireland/UK/USA, I didn't ask. India is an odd country in that English is the joint first language in metropolitan areas, yet their grammar is really bad.

ameera

hello i am an interational med graduate..i want to know if there is any test like usmle or plab that one has to take to move to ireland as a medical graduate?

ameera

also if you know if it is necessary to get a work permitt in order to work in england as a senior medical officer after clearing plab1....and how hard it is to get a work permitt.

Becky55

Hi all, i am a law graduate who is seriously considering a different route, a career in medicine has always been in the back of my mind, i am now after completing my law degree as well as my FE1 law entrance exams and with no job or apprecticeship i am having time to think about my future and i cant get medicine out of my head, i am am at the minute looking in to a postgrad in medicine, i dont no anyone who has done it and wud really appreciate any advice one has to offer. I did chemisrty and biology for the leaving cert and did very well in them, i liked science and wouldnt be at all put off by studying these again. anyway i am just seeking advice on how best to go about applying, from my reading it seems i have to sit the suitability tests, how difficult are these?? and wud people recommend the revision courses? also re fees, will i be able to apply for a grant? Il be 25 going in in september if i get the entrance exams is that really old??

netaddict

Hi Becky 55,
25 isn't to old to be starting medicine, if you do a 5 year course you'll come out the other side at 30. However possibly the most frustrating part for you will be your friends seeming to get on with their life's while you have literally moved your life 5 years in the wrong direction. But if you can tolerate that, like science, enjoy talking to people and can empathise with them than their is likely a place for you somewhere in the multitudes of various specialities that medicine provides. (plus if you can find the funds too)

Vorsprung

Becky55 wrote: »

Hi all, i am a law graduate who is seriously considering a different route, a career in medicine has always been in the back of my mind, i am now after completing my law degree as well as my FE1 law entrance exams and with no job or apprecticeship i am having time to think about my future and i cant get medicine out of my head, i am am at the minute looking in to a postgrad in medicine, i dont no anyone who has done it and wud really appreciate any advice one has to offer. I did chemisrty and biology for the leaving cert and did very well in them, i liked science and wouldnt be at all put off by studying these again. anyway i am just seeking advice on how best to go about applying, from my reading it seems i have to sit the suitability tests, how difficult are these?? and wud people recommend the revision courses? also re fees, will i be able to apply for a grant? Il be 25 going in in september if i get the entrance exams is that really old??

Not old at all. A 50 something graduated in my class, and many grad students were in their late 20s and early 30s when they finished.