Classic Army Steyr Aug A1 discussion

NakedDex

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Yeah, I agree with tony here, the law is just so unspecific

It's actually quite specific. If a unit is capable of expelling a projectile above a muzzle energy of 1J, it is a firearm. Whether that be an AEG, an air rifle or Nerf gun. The key word is capable.

Example.
AEG with hop off, chrono's at 340 with .20g bb's.
Same AEG with hop on, chrono's at 320 with .20g bb's.
Conclusion: AEG is hot, therefore illegal and requires immediate downgrading.

AEG with hop off, chrono's at 320 with .20g bb's.
Same AEG with hop on, chrono's at 310 with .20g bb's.
Conclusion: AEG is within legal limits and is acceptable for use and ownership without licence.

It's a fairly simple and clear cut. The hop is a component of the rifle, it's job is to impart backspin on the round to produce longer range on the rounds flight. It's job is not a power modifier.
Even if the hop could be consider a power modifier by the nature of it's resultant energy reduction on the round leaving the muzzle, this would still leave the unit in a state where it would be capable of doing above the 1J limit should it be turned off.

As I said before, the key word is capable. If it can, at any stage, produce muzzle energies above the 1J limit without mechanical alteration of the unit's working assembly, then it is over the limit, deemed hot and therefore unusable.


Also, with regard to the gas systems. Gas is even more finnicky than compressed air as it is stored in liquid form. Ambient temperature plays a massive part in how efficiently it works and, therefore, how much energy it produces. Technically a very hot day could put a gas rifle, or indeed pistol, over the top. As could using higher powered gas in general.
Obviously noone here would condone the use of higher powered gas as an effort to overpower the rifle/pistol. However, the gas rifle only becomes illegal if the gas used produces too much energy, and there are options available to prevent this. For example, 134a gas is used in hotter climates to produce levels around 1J, so using that instead of your standard Summer Green would be the course of action.
If you were still worried that your gas choice on a particularly hot day would send the rifle over the limit, simply do not use it. Remove the bolt/gas mag if you wish to be doubly sure, as this ensures the unit must be mechanically reassembled in order to fire over the limit. As long as you don't do that, you're clear.


Vintz: I'm not sure what you're getting at there, the post seemed rather like a ramble? Noone mentioned the difference between Green Gas and propane? No need to get all hot and bothered about the topic either. Granted it's gone rather OT but the information and the debate currently being exchanged is in good nature and civil.

Vintz

NakedDex, Thanks for the reminder. All my testes were carried out with the hop-up turned off.

As for velocity reducers, these are nothing short of a complete waste of time, I do not want to see people at any site I intend skirmishing at using one of these pieces of anal filth. There is nothing stopping them from taking it off mid game to get that oh so needed range during a stalemate only to reattach it when the deed has been commited...

Site should ban them outright and insist on the unit boing downgraded, as is the case at Ozzies gaf. Hell, in some cases he's been known to conviscate devices and not return them until they've been made legal. I fully back this action taken on behalf of the overall airsoft community and urge other sites to uses this as a deterrent against the use of 'hot' devices.

kevteljeur

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Here is the link to the 1 joule graph
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055353665

A .25bb should have a velocity of less than 300fps, about 290fps.

It generally does. I've seen about 280, or a bit under, which I believe is where it should be and I haven't seen different. Stands to reason.

Probably best to ask KDouglas, the resident expert on this subject.

Vintz

kevteljeur wrote: »

It generally does. I've seen about 280, or a bit under, which I believe is where it should be and I haven't seen different. Stands to reason.

Probably best to ask KDouglas, the resident expert on this subject.

With .25g 6mm BBs, you can have up to 292FPS (.99J), but yes, to be on the safe side 280FPS is a good place to be.

MacAonghusa

Hell, in some cases he's been known to conviscate devices and not return them until they've been made legal. I fully back this action taken on behalf of the overall airsoft community and urge other sites to uses this as a deterrent against the use of 'hot' devices.

Do you think you have the right to confiscate guns? I doubt it. if anyone ever tries to confiscate one of my guns there'd be war, and i don't mean milsim
chronoing should be sufficient, we're all aware of the rules.

MAD Ozzie

Bring it on big man,
And and we will all, see what you are!!. But the LAW is on my side BUDDY so you are F..ed anyway, (My land My house and CLUB site) (Tip for you, DONT COME TO CORK) !!

All AEG's That are chronoed over are taken (Not confiscated) till end of game,like it or leave. (At 5 pm you can take it home, then you can stick it up you ass for all i care), or ill downgrade it for you for the cost of the spring and labour,(35euro) or you can buy a new spring and do it your self. But not on my site, and if you don't like it then stiff, Don't come.
I, the Club and IAA and the law make the rules. And as site owners its our responsibility to keep the sport SAFE from this sh.t, I have the safety of club members to think of! (131 Members) not just 1.
And that attitude is a prime example, of the players we dont want in Cork.

Oh and I do have the right.

MacAonghusa

Woah, way to totally miss the point there Ozzie!

Vintz said you wouldn't return guns until they're made legal. So if weather conditions put a gun slightly over you'd hold it until spring? A new moon? When?

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

Bring it on big man,
And and we will all, see what you are!!. But the LAW is on my side BUDDY

I don't think it is, buddy. If my gun was over the limit as far as I am concerned the only person with the authority to actually confiscate my gun is a Garda.
You can (and should) prevent any player from playing with a hot gun obviously but i'd be careful about actually confiscating their property.

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

All AEG's That are chronoed over are taken (Not confiscated) till end of game,like it or leave.

That's not what Vintz said and it was his point I was responding to.

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

I, the Club and IAA and the law make the rules. And as site owners its our responsibility to keep the sport SAFE from this sh.t, I have the safety of club members to think of! (131 Members) not just 1.

As I said you have totally missed the point there. I'm simply talking about the right to confiscate someone else's property. You believe you have the right under law so please provide references. it should be simply since you're so sure of yourself.

And if that clarification isn't enough (:rolleyes:) I fully support checking of guns prior to play and refusal to anyone who is over the limit. But i'd just urge caution when it comes to *confiscation* of their property.

kdouglas

Lads, I've avoided stepping on on this discussion so far because it was a reasonably civilized and well mannered debate, some of you are starting to get agressive now, tone it down and keep a civil tongue please.

The next person to use agressive language in this thread will be banned.



As for my own personal opinion on the matter; All AEGs should be chrono'd with the hopup turned off, a hopup at maximum can make a difference of about 20fps or so, which, although may not seem like much, there is absolutely no leeway written into the law for this.

Like it or not, the CJA2006 was not written with airsoft in mind, the politicians, gardai and customs were not expecting this situation to arise, be happy you have airsoft at all in this country, as I like to remind people every now and again, all it takes is one minor change for it to be made illegal again, hell, even a decimal point added in would do it.

If you have any problems about your AEG chrono'ing over at different sites, then simply change the spring so that it chrono's at legal power limits at all of them.

People have too much obsession with upgrading their guns to fire at 1Joule, in terms of range, there is not that much difference between 290/300fps and 325-328, if you want range and accuracy, use a decent hopup rubber/unit, get a decent quality barrel and use good quality BBs, these will give you much better results than an extra 30 or 40 fps.

MacAonghusa

Apologies if I came off aggressive (and for dragging the discussion down), certainly wasn't intentional.

Masada

As regards Confiscating a persons gun because you BELIEVE it to be hot, you dont have a leg to stand on and hold no legal right whatsoever to do so. ONLY the Gardai have the power to confiscate and the reason you dont get charged there and then, is because the item has to be assessed by a CERTIFIED professional at garda headquaters to find out if it is over the legal limit. only THEN is is deemed the original owner was in posession of an illegal firearm. Now until such tests are carried out at a site by a certified authority, you havent got jack sh*t of a right to take anyones kit based on your "assumption" that it might be illegal. You may refuse them entry to your site but you have no right to play "I am the law". You hold NO other power other than the right to refuse admission to the site.,

Sorry if this offends anyone but that is the facts, nothing else. And anyone who thinks they'll be STEALING of any of my gear with or without the intention of "giving it back when "they" decide its legal" will swiftly find the breaking strain of an AEG's reciever when struck against the cranium.


PS, I also beleive for arguements sake, chrono'ing should be done with the hopup off, it elliminates the confusion and if you take a CQB scenario for instance, the person isnt going to need a hopup at that sort of distance, therefore he/she can turn it off and use what is "techincally" an illegal firearm to play the game.


Richie,

MacAonghusa

vtec wrote: »

if you take a CQB scenario for instance, the person isnt going to need a hopup at that sort of distance, therefore he/she can turn it off and use what is "techincally" an illegal firearm to play the game.

That's actually a good point I didn't think of. Think i'll chrono with hop off in future just to be sure.

Tigger

NakedDex wrote: »

Humidity is water droplets, albeit small ones. A round in flight is slowed down, exactly as Hive said, by having to force it's way through vaporised water if various particulate size. The friction caused by these millions of micro-impacts is the cause of reduction of speed and range, it's gaseous viscosity. I'm not sure where you got that +/-10fps figure, I can only assume you've researched it to come to such an arbitrary conclusion, but from my experience it can go quite further than that. Now if you have evidence otherwise then I'll dismiss my own results.

why the italics?


humidity increases air density
denser air will push harder increasing velocity
vapourised water is a gas not a particulate as you suggest unless you have reached the double point of misting but we're not discussing mist we're discussing humidity

the round travels down the barrel and immediatly through a chrono this would in no way be enough distance for it to be slowed to a measurable degree by a change in the relative humidity


the figures i have noticed are from the changes i have noticed in building and upgrading my aegs

i am interested in how changes in things in the aegs affect the velocity so yes i have seen a variance of +/- 3 m/s which equates to 10 fps

Tigger

vtec wrote: »

Sorry if this offends anyone but that is the facts, nothing else. And anyone who thinks they'll be STEALING of any of my gear with or without the intention of "giving it back when "they" decide its legal" will swiftly find the breaking strain of an AEG's reciever when struck against the cranium.

lol

MAD Ozzie

MacAonghusa wrote: »

Apologies if I came off aggressive (and for dragging the discussion down), certainly wasn't intentional.

My
Apologies to you. I took it as a threat My bad.

The word Confiscate was a bit over the top, Its up to the player if he or she wishes me to downgrade, rather than drive around with a hot AEG, And the AEG's in question are firing in excess of 400fps. (Hop up off) For the safety of the AEG owner and others.

The only reason I take an AEG thats hot till the end of the day, is to make sure some sneaky player decides to use during the day, not that we have that prob, but safety first. I run a tight ship here, I must as I have had the Guards and customs here, and they like the way the club runs things.

The site is my home and land, so the law is on my side,(If a man turns up with a firearm) he has no rights, look it up.
And Vintz is a great asset to the Club, so ill stick up for him.

Im out of this now, so im sorry for draging this thread down

The future of Airsoft in Ireland needs to be looked after, as it skate's on thin ice at the moment, sites and retailers must be safe for all players and colectors allike, as we are the only ones that can regulate the hobby.

Mad Ozzie, over and out.

Tigger

so classic army steyr aug A1's
not as good as they used to be

MAD Ozzie

They seem to have gone down hill in the last year??
Quality control seems to be very pore.

Tigger

the americians seem to like them an when jg is mentioned the attitude is dismissive
i wonder if thats marketing or what it is

MacAonghusa

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

My
Apologies to you. I took it as a threat My bad.

Jeez no, certainly wasn't a threat. I'm too much of a wuss to threaten anyone

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

I run a tight ship here, I must as I have had the Guards and customs here, and they like the way the club runs things.

And I commend you for it Oz. The only issue I have is the act of taking a gun off a player; I would urge caution here.
If it was me personally I'd ask the player to leave the gun in the car and double check that he/she is using an approved alternative.

Am I allowed down to Cork now?

MacAonghusa

Tigger wrote: »

the americians seem to like them an when jg is mentioned the attitude is dismissive
i wonder if thats marketing or what it is

Snobbery maybe? JG, shur golly, that's only a clone! Pfth!

Edit: trades maybe? It's important to some ppl. Tbh it's one (small) reason I went for CA cos I wanted a realistic Aug.
I like my Aug.

kdouglas

But yet Echo1 are one of the most popular brands in the US, yet they just use re-branded clones

MAD Ozzie

You sure are mate

MacAonghusa

Popular Airsoft Mag gave details on most popular brands recently; was it posted here? Will i post it? (question for mods)

Tigger

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

You sure are mate

its a trap mac

MacAonghusa

Tigger wrote: »

its a trap mac

It's ok Aussies can't shoot straight anyway

MacAonghusa

Back to Aug for a sec .... who do you lads recommend (retailer & manufacturer) for a tight bore barrel?

kevteljeur

JG, FTW!


As I've said before, I wouldn't mind better physical accuracy with the build, but the problem JG have is that they can't make a better AEG without someone else making it first for them to copy. Could be many years before they start creating originals, and you won't see original mechanism ideas from them. Which is a shame, because with their build quality, they could really crank out some great kit at the right prices.

Tigger

kevteljeur wrote: »

JG, FTW!


As I've said before, I wouldn't mind better physical accuracy with the build, but the problem JG have is that they can't make a better AEG without someone else making it first for them to copy. Could be many years before they start creating originals, and you won't see original mechanism ideas from them. Which is a shame, because with their build quality, they could really crank out some great kit at the right prices.

i'm gonna have to get one of those a3 things yer forever going on about

[--SC(+)PE--]

Back to Aug for a sec .... who do you lads recommend (retailer & manufacturer) for a tight bore barrel?

Prometheus 6.03, you would probably have to get it from Ehobby or Rsov.

i'm gonna have to get one of those a3 things yer forever going on about

Get that revolver launcer instead, i only just got my A3 and it is awesome with all my sexy bits from my old Aug in it :pac:

Tigger

i got a m203 which i'm making a pistol outa
if i like that i'll get the big yoke

MacAonghusa

Tigger wrote: »

i got a m203 which i'm making a pistol outa

:eek:
This I gotta see!