Roundabouts

6True9

BTW... Admit True was right and you were wrong

kaiser sauze

Xennon wrote: »

From this book:



The page I am referring to is:

...and those instructions depict clearly why the updated (and correct) rules of the road were printed.

kaiser sauze

bonkey wrote: »

When given a choice between avoiding a potentially dangerous situation and standing on your rights / the rules of the road, your rights / the rules should always come second.



Can they not defend their driving by saying that while it might lead to close calls, it hasn't caused an accident yet?

I probably should have said that I don't throw complete caution to the wind. Ultimately, I do put my personal safety above my superior knowledge of how to use a roundabout. :cool:

In answer to your second question, an emphatic "no". You can't defend ignorant driving.

kaiser sauze

Xennon wrote: »

True, but those signs don't depict which lane is to be used for which exit.

To me, the new rule book is quite clear: [paraphrasing] 'straight ahead and earler = left lane; anything after straight ahead = right lane, unless dictated otherwise by road markings/signs, works, gardaí and the unforseen.

Xennon

Define "straight ahead"? The term is ambiguous and shouldn't be used to define a driving rule, especially if an insurance company can fudge what "straight ahead" is.

Kaiser, if the rules of the road were changed then I do believe there would be a bit more information publicized than just putting out a new book and expecting everyone to follow it, like lemmings.

I, for one will await the reply from the RSA, if Monke gets one, before claiming that I am an expert in the field of roundabouts.

kaiser sauze

Xennon wrote: »

Define "straight ahead"? The term is ambiguous and shouldn't be used to define a driving rule, especially if an insurance company can fudge what "straight ahead" is.

Kaiser, if the rules of the road were changed then I do believe there would be a bit more information publicized than just putting out a new book and expecting everyone to follow it, like lemmings.

I, for one will await the reply from the RSA, if Monke gets one, before claiming that I am an expert in the field of roundabouts.

90 degrees ahead, 12 o'clock from a six o'clock position.

In relation to your second point, I take it, but we are talking about Ireland here. Things are changed here regularly and public information is sometimes not broadcast effectively.

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I am comfortable that my interpretation of the rules is correct.

Xennon

Yes...i remember now....this is Ireland, I'm surprised we don't have to exit the roundabout with a finger in our left ears. :rolleyes:

Potential-Monke

Aye, i can't wait to see the reply from the rsa either!

Granted, that edition of the rules of the road does state clearly which lane to be in as per your posts, but, and this is a big but, that book was first published in 1992, revised 6 times at least (i found one earlier in a frantic search of the house i'm staying in). Thing is, people going for the tests after 1997ish will not have had that book, they would ahve had the new one (at the time), which doesn't really have much about roundabouts, and now the newest one is contradicting itself.

And yes, this is the one ye have been going by all along as that is the one that was around when ye done yeir test, etc, but, the onus is on the driver to keep up to date with all the recent information about driving. There is nothing in that book about Luas lines... Not having a go, just saying. People taking the test after 2000 will more than likely be guaranteed to not have that book, and ahve a more recent one.

Wishbone Ash

Potential-Monke wrote: »

that book was first published in 1992, revised 6 times at least (i found one earlier in a frantic search of the house i'm staying in). Thing is, people going for the tests after 1997ish will not have had that book, they would ahve had the new one (at the time), which doesn't really have much about roundabouts, and now the newest one is contradicting itself

I had my 1979 edition up to recently but I seem to have mislaid it. The foreword was by the one and only Sylvester Barrett TD who was Minister for Environment at the time. It would be interesting to see what it has to say about roundabouts!

Potential-Monke

I'd like a look at that, could quite possibly include that you ahve to remove your cap while cycling as you pass a lady!

Wishbone Ash

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'd like a look at that, could quite possibly include that you ahve to remove your cap while cycling as you pass a lady!

No mention of motorways or buslanes! :eek:

In the 1992 edition, the sliproad onto the M1 northbound, pictured on page 31, looks very 'raw'! and then there's the awful beige Camry popping up here and there.

Potential-Monke

Them times change quick! To be honest now, bus lanes came into limerick around october time last year in Limerick, and i didn't know much about them, other than stay out of them until you see the arrow saying you can go into them.

Needless to say i came to one of those arrows and went to pull in and BEEEEEEPPPP!!! - taxi driver came up the bus lane, didn't see him (somehow). So, me being me, i decided to fuk him out of it, not knowing that they can use bus lanes, which i found out as he shouted it at me, to which my reply was "well fuk you so" and took off... Learn from your mistkaes eh?

Wishbone Ash

Potential-Monke wrote: »

didn't know much about them, other than stay out of them until you see the arrow saying you can go into them

That problem doesn't really exist with the counter-flow bus lanes! :eek:

Potential-Monke

Funny enough that!

6True9

kaiser sauze wrote: »

90 degrees ahead, 12 o'clock from a six o'clock position.

90 degrees ahead would be a right angle to the left....

Xennon

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Granted, that edition of the rules of the road does state clearly which lane to be in as per your posts, but, and this is a big but, that book was first published in 1992, revised 6 times at least (i found one earlier in a frantic search of the house i'm staying in). Thing is, people going for the tests after 1997ish will not have had that book, they would ahve had the new one (at the time), which doesn't really have much about roundabouts, and now the newest one is contradicting itself.

That book was bought in Easons two years ago. 22nd reprint in 2005. (on inside cover)

Stark

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Needless to say i came to one of those arrows and went to pull in and BEEEEEEPPPP!!! - taxi driver came up the bus lane, didn't see him (somehow). So, me being me, i decided to fuk him out of it, not knowing that they can use bus lanes, which i found out as he shouted it at me, to which my reply was "well fuk you so" and took off... Learn from your mistkaes eh?

Technically they're only allowed use them if they're carrying a passenger.

Sangre

kaiser sauze wrote: »

90 degrees ahead, 12 o'clock from a six o'clock position.

180 degrees even?

GreeBo

Sangre wrote: »

180 degrees even?

Just goes to show then doesnt it, some people seem to have issues with defining "straight ahead".

GreeBo

kaiser sauze wrote: »

What really galls me is that in this thread we've people who have obviously been doing it wrong for many years cannot bring themselves to accept that they are wrong.

Well since they have just changed the rules not eveyone who was doing it wrong before is doing it wrong now

kaiser sauze

6True9 wrote: »

90 degrees ahead would be a right angle to the left....

I said 90 degrees ahead, not 90 degrees to the left.

kaiser sauze

GreeBo wrote: »

Just goes to show then doesnt it, some people seem to have issues with defining "straight ahead".

Unfortunately, yes.

GreeBo wrote: »

Well since they have just changed the rules not eveyone who was doing it wrong before is doing it wrong now

While the old rules of the road was a bit more ambiguous than the new one, the rules were only clarified, not changed. I have always been in the left lane, unless dictated otherwise, for going straight ahead, or before, at a roundabout. [driving double digit years] The old rules talked about second exits etc., but the diagram clearly showed a junction straight ahead and told you to use the left lane. [The broken line applies to when conditions dictated otherwise.]

GreeBo

kaiser sauze wrote: »

While the old rules of the road was a bit more ambiguous than the new one, the rules were only clarified, not changed.

I have to disagree, there is a definite difference between "2nd exit" and "straight".

kaiser sauze wrote: »

I have always been in the left lane, unless dictated otherwise, for going straight ahead, or before, at a roundabout.

I have always been in the left lan when taking the first or second exit.

kaiser sauze wrote: »

the diagram clearly showed a junction straight ahead and told you to use the left lane.

The diagram clearly showed a car taking the second exit!

Xennon

Ah now Kaiser, speaking as someone who also has been driving for well over 10 years, I believe the correct method is as the rule book said, first two exits = left lane, anything after that go to the right lane. I don't see how they were ambiguous with that statement. Ambiguous would be using a metaphor like 12oclock.

Potential-Monke

No reply for the rsa, surprisingly, but i think until we get a confirmation, we'll ahve to agree to disagree. Either way, the rsa have a big job of letting the entire nation know the answer, because this is just a few of us here argueing over it, whereas there are 100's of 1000's of people doing what we're talking about... Such is life!

kaiser sauze

Xennon wrote: »

Ah now Kaiser, speaking as someone who also has been driving for well over 10 years, I believe the correct method is as the rule book said, first two exits = left lane, anything after that go to the right lane. I don't see how they were ambiguous with that statement. Ambiguous would be using a metaphor like 12oclock.

Yes, and the second exit, in that diagram, happened to be straight ahead.

If you've always been in the left lane for the second exit and that exit was after straight ahead, you've been doing it wrong.

biko

12 o'clock is a better way to say it imo.
Xennon assumes that every roundabout has four exists whereas some have more or less.

Below I would stay in left lane to go straight through to 216th street and Xennon would stay in right lane.


I know it's a US RB but it doesn't mean there are no roundabouts like this here or UK

kaiser sauze

GreeBo wrote: »

I have to disagree, there is a definite difference between "2nd exit" and "straight".

I have always been in the left lan when taking the first or second exit.


The diagram clearly showed a car taking the second exit!

Yes, you're right, which is why the rules were clarified. They still amount to the same thing, but less ambiguous.

And if that second exit is after straight ahead, you should be in the right lane.

Yes, which happened to be straight ahead, as it says very clearly on the top of the diagram: "Travelling straight ahead". :cool:

kaiser sauze

biko wrote: »

12 o'clock is a better way to say it imo.
Xennon assumes that every roundabout has four exists whereas some have more or less.

Below I would stay in left lane to go straight through to 216th street and Xennon would stay in right lane.


I know it's a US RB but it doesn't mean there are no roundabouts like this here or UK

In this case Xennon would be right as that exit [216th northbound] is past straight ahead as you would approach from 216th south. I know it is very marginal, but it is what I would do in this position, unless, of course, there were road markings dictating that you do otherwise.

My position on above: '48th west' and 'Old Yale Road' = left lane; '216th north' and '48th east' = right lane.

EDIT - there is a roundabout like this in the middle of my hometown.

givyjoe81

biko wrote: »

12 o'clock is a better way to say it imo.
Xennon assumes that every roundabout has four exists whereas some have more or less.

Below I would stay in left lane to go straight through to 216th street and Xennon would stay in right lane.


I know it's a US RB but it doesn't mean there are no roundabouts like this here or UK

The thing with twelve o'clock is sometimes you cant see where that is, or it isnt where you think it is, wishbone posted an overhead pic of the walkinstown roundabout a while back and what appears to be 12 o clock when driving from peter's road is actually the third exit (heading to O'neill's) and not the fourth exit (heading towards superquinn). Sorry dont know the road names!

My point is that using the 12 o'clock system isn't always possible and even without this overhead pic its still not possible to judge accurately when approaching the roundabout, plus the roundabout's exits aren't neat and tidy and dont fit into a clockface! Finally it has five exits or six if you want come back from the way you came, and three lanes on approach to the roundabout itself, not the usual two.

So if i was approaching this roundabout and i wanted to take the first two exits, i would take the left lane... Here's the tricky bit if i wanted the third exit, i'd use the second lane and then the third lane for fourth and fifth? Right or wrong??