Roundabouts

Potential-Monke

givy, normally with 3 roundabouts, the left lane is for taking the first left only, usially indiacted by road markings/signage. And, you mightn't be able to see straight ahead, but if you can't there's more than likely a sign before it showing the overhead layout of the roundabout, and you go by that!

givyjoe81

Potential-Monke wrote: »

givy, normally with 3 roundabouts, the left lane is for taking the first left only, usially indiacted by road markings/signage. And, you mightn't be able to see straight ahead, but if you can't there's more than likely a sign before it showing the overhead layout of the roundabout, and you go by that!

There's no 3 lane roundabout in the rules of the road though! Or is there?! Plus def not a six exit one! The rules do say that the left lane is for the first and second exits though, couple of diagrams posted a bit back saying that too.

Walkinstown has no signage that i can see when im on it!

Potential-Monke

Still no reply...

givyjoe81 wrote: »

There's no 3 lane roundabout in the rules of the road though! Or is there?! Plus def not a six exit one! The rules do say that the left lane is for the first and second exits though, couple of diagrams posted a bit back saying that too.

Walkinstown has no signage that i can see when im on it!

The signage won't be on the roundabout, should be about 200m or so before it, either a green sign with white writing or white sign with black writing.

Pete4779

6True9 wrote: »

I don't get why people cannot understand roundabouts...

"think of it as a clock" <--- BS. It's the number of exits between you and your intended exit that counts. Not the bloody time...

Yup. Have to agree here. A mate of mine spent around 4 years in the UK, never got a license, failed the UK test twice, drives in the Republic on a provisional and got pissed off with me when I said (discussing roundabouts) "There's no such ****ing thing as a clock on the roundabout.".

He had all this garbage from somewhere about "if it's beyond twelve o'clock you take the right lane" - even if it's the second exit.

Needless to say, I told him it was a load of bollocks. Yeah, he is in Galway. He gets pissed off at other drivers, but seeing as he has this nonsense in his head about the clock and roundabouts, there is little hope.

He told me that this was what it was like in the UK.

However, he had never read the Irish rules of the road, never passed a test, and continues (much to my amazement and despite a telling off) to drive unaccompanied on a provisional, using this bull**** 12-o-clock nonsense instead of actually looking at the road, lanes and knowing the rules. I'll believe the clock-nonsense when it's in the Rules of the Road - on my last reading, it definitely wasn't there, but it explains a lot.

The other thing he does is think he has right of way over the left lane in leaving at the second exit if he had to cut across the left lane to get to it exit (having entered on the right lane incorrectly already). I tried explaining this, but TBH, there is no arguing with some people. They never read the rules of road, never pass a test and until next summer we all have to deal with it on the roads.

Stark

Pete4779 wrote: »

I'll believe the clock-nonsense when it's in the Rules of the Road - on my last reading, it definitely wasn't there, but it explains a lot.

Unfortunately the rules of the road don't mention anything other than 4 exit, 2 lane roundabouts with each exit at 90 degrees from each other. Given the ubiquity of roundabouts and all the various shapes and sizes, you'd think they'd give some other examples to clarify things. The "clock" thing actually makes sense for 3 exit roundabouts with 2 lanes imo. What else would the second lane be used for unless loads of people were using the roundabout to do U-ys.

Pete4779 wrote: »

They never read the rules of road, never pass a test and until next summer we all have to deal with it on the roads.

Next summer? You mean indefinitely? Only current second provisional holders got the extra months grace, yet the situation is the same as it ever was.

Wishbone Ash

Pete4779 wrote: »

He had all this garbage from somewhere about "if it's beyond twelve o'clock you take the right lane" - even if it's the second exit....... ..........Needless to say, I told him it was a load of bollocks

Your friend is perfectly correct! It's a pity there weren't more like him out there!

Pete4779 wrote:

I'll believe the clock-nonsense when it's in the Rules of the Road

The ROTR is a 'lay man's' guide to the regulations from a safety point of view and has no legal basis.

Pete4779 wrote:

until next summer we all have to deal with it on the roads.

If you could only see how ridiculous you look. You castigate others for their lack of knowledge and then drop a clanger right in it.

As Stark has said, the exemption from being accompanied until next June applies only to those motorists who hold a 2nd category B Provisional Licence and had held it prior to the 30th of october last.

All other Provisional Licence /Learner Permit holder are required to be accompanied at all times (excluding A, A1, M and W of course).

AngryHippie

Come to the midlands, where about 50% of people don't even bother indicating on roundabouts, let alone picking an appropriate lane ! It's a bloody nightmare.
I passed my test recently, with only one blue ! But even during the test, two drivers at two different roundabouts made exits with no indication whatsoever, I took it ham and cheesey, and as I was glancin at my mirror before going onto the roundabout, I could see the tester grinning and shaking his head, Did I get an x on my signalling or turning or behavior on roundabouts ?
Did I FCUK !

givyjoe81

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Still no reply...



The signage won't be on the roundabout, should be about 200m or so before it, either a green sign with white writing or white sign with black writing.

Seriously there is no signage!! Iv used all the exits/entrances if you will at this stage and i havent seen any signs on what lane to be using, not unless they are camouflaged. Seriously though, the sign for a six exit roundabout would be fairly big and i dont see there being room for them on any of the approaches to the walkinstown roundabout, if am missing them someone please point them out to me!

Potential-Monke

Pete4779 wrote: »

He had all this garbage from somewhere about "if it's beyond twelve o'clock you take the right lane" - even if it's the second exit.

Ah, actually, even if you don't go by the clock rule, then you're still doing it wrong. The ROTR says that you use the left lane for 1st exit and straight ahead, and the right for anything else. So, even if you don't use the clock analagy, you still have to use the right lane for, as you put it, the second exit even if it is after 12 o'clock, aka straight ahead... Just because it's the second exit doesn't mean it's the left lane, if it's after straight ahead you have to use the right lane!!! And that is in the ROTR.

Christ, i hope they reply with an answer soon! I'll mail them again!!!

givy, i don't know the roundabout you're on about, so i can't comment much more. But if i'm even on it, i'll be sure to comment!

Pete4779

Well, when I took the test and passed it there was no mention in any clocks in the Road Traffic Act or in the rules of the road.

It was left lane for 1st, 2nd exit and right lane for anything else.

To the people talking about the clock thing: where is this 12 o clock stuff mentioned in road traffic law, or road signs or in the rules of the road? Show me the evidence, or it's just made up nonsense. No wonder there are so many accidents- people trying to figure out of they are going to 2 o clock, or 10 o clock.

WTF? Stop trying to put a ****ing clock face on a road and just drive for christ's sake.

So where is this clock stuff written? And I don't mean what you have interpreted as being a bloody clock.

Stark

Any exit less than 1.570796325 radians from your exit: Left lane. Any exit more than 1.570796325 radians from your exit: Right lane. No clocks

I've just checked my rules of the road and Potential-monkey is right: there's no mention at all of "second exit" and "third exit" etc., only "straight ahead" and "later exits". So the clock analogy is bang on.

Wishbone Ash

Pete4779 wrote: »

WTF? Stop trying to put a ****ing clock face on a road and just drive for christ's sake.

So where is this clock stuff written? And I don't mean what you have interpreted as being a bloody clock.

Tone it down Pete4779! Try to make your points in a more constructive manner. Thanks.

GreeBo

The clock comes from trying to interpret "straight" and "left" which in my mind have no place in the definition of points on a circle.:rolleyes:

Redjeep!

funny how we're getting hot under the collar even talking about it isn't it ?

This post should be made compulsary reading for anybody driving around the M4 roundabout at Kilcock as 90% of people seem to think that it's OK to drive all the way around it in the outside (left hand) lane and to get abusive to the people who've tried to take the right hand lane to go 'past 12 O'clock' (don't want to start another arguement about what that actually means).

Oh, BTW, you should try driving in France where on some of the roundabouts you have priority if you're already on the roundabout (like here) and some where you have priority if you join the roundabout. The traffic on the roundabout has to stop to let you on HaHaHa !!! Who could have thought that one up ?

Wishbone Ash

Pete4779 wrote: »

Well, when I took the test and passed it there was no mention in any clocks in the Road Traffic Act or in the rules of the road

By your own admission you have passed one test yet you seem to consider that you're knowledgable on the subject.

I have passed the tests in all categories and all driving instructors that I have used have advocated the 'clock' system as an easy way of explaining the appropriate roundabout rules.

Potential-Monke

Pete4779 wrote: »

Well, when I took the test and passed it there was no mention in any clocks in the Road Traffic Act or in the rules of the road.

It was left lane for 1st, 2nd exit and right lane for anything else.

When did you pass your test?

To the people talking about the clock thing: where is this 12 o clock stuff mentioned in road traffic law, or road signs or in the rules of the road? Show me the evidence, or it's just made up nonsense.

WTF? Stop trying to put a ****ing clock face on a road and just drive for christ's sake.

Not everyone is as "competant" as you in driving, especially new drivers, so the clock analagy is used by numerous instructors to help them with roundabouts. No, it's not written in law, or in the ROTR, but your 1st/2nd/3rd exit lane explanation is not in any recent or relevant material for new drivers.

So where is this clock stuff written? And I don't mean what you have interpreted as being a bloody clock.

No wonder there are so many accidents- people trying to figure out of they are going to 2 o clock, or 10 o clock.

More accidents are caused by people thinking that they know the proper way to drive, but don't. Maybe instead of insisting that you're right, you might want to take on what other people are saying, and granted when you passed you test it used the 1st/2nd/3rd exits method, but it no longer uses that it seems, and it's up to the driver to keep up to date with recent changes...

kaiser sauze

Stark wrote: »

Any exit less than 1.570796325 radians from your exit: Left lane. Any exit more than 1.570796325 radians from your exit: Right lane. No clocks

I've just checked my rules of the road and Potential-monkey is right: there's no mention at all of "second exit" and "third exit" etc., only "straight ahead" and "later exits". So the clock analogy is bang on.

Thank you, we've been trying to explain the fact that this is an analogy to help people, not law.

J_R

Hi,


The RSA instructions to their driving test examiners use the clock explanation as :-

Position at Roundabouts

Where an applicant intends to take any exit in the 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock position, subject to road markings, the approach should normally be in the left-hand lane.

The approach should normally be in the right-hand lane for any exit after the 12 o'clock position, or a fault may be recorded for 'Position at Roundabouts'.

However, where road markings are provided and they require an applicant to use a different approach lane from the above, the applicant should use that 'marked' approach lane, or a fault may be recorded for 'Position at Roundabouts'- (not for 'Road Markings' in this case.)

An applicant should have reasonable time and opportunity to see any road markings.

Taken from "Notes on the Driving Fault Marking Guidelines - Position Roundabouts

Above explanation is short, simple and not a mention of 1st, 2nd 3rd,

The OLD Rules of the Road described a BASIC 4 exit roundabout, which perhaps was the only roundabout in Ireland at the time the book was written, or the only one the author knew.

That explanation is now totally out-dated and should be discarded

Potential-Monke

Well i guess that solves it then! Thanks J R! This needs to be advertised to everyone, on billboards, tv, radio, everywhere!!!

kaiser sauze

Good stuff. I can't help but notice the quietness of those who were disparaging the 'clock analogy'.

Potential-Monke

I was going to say that when i got on here next!

Xennon

I refer you again to the ROTR manual that was published previous to the current one, ie published 2 years ago



Now you are telling me that these rules have changed without any notification?

If this is the case then Im glad Ive been corrected, but to me it seems rediculous that they state two different systems without any further clarification.

Potential-Monke

Yes, it has changed, and there is notification, the new rules of the road, which may not be very clear, but does not use the 1st/2nd/3rd exit rule as described there...

Pete4779

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Yes, it has changed, and there is notification, the new rules of the road, which may not be very clear, but does not use the 1st/2nd/3rd exit rule as described there...

Could someone then post an equivalent scan of the updated instructions that are different to the ones above (i.e., the ones I learned).

I am looking right now at the 2007 Rules of the Road (http://www.rsa.ie/publication/publication/upload/017024-RoTR2nd.pdf?PHPSESSID=41a37396b416031b3f81803173df4c32
It's a lengthy PDF file of around 230 pages or so.

Someone linked above to www.drivingschoolireland.com. This is a privately run website and is not the Road Safety Authority. Yes, they have the clock stuff on it, but no, the RSA and Rules of the Road 2007 make zero mention of the clock stuff.

So, where are people getting this clock idea from? It's not in my older edition of the Rules of the Road, and contrary to what is said above by J_R, the current 2007 Rules of the Road says absolutely nothing of the sort. You took the link from a private driving school's interpretation of the rules.

Again:
Please would people actually read the RSA official Rules of the Road. I am looking at it right now. It's free to download the 2007 edition. The clock stuff is non existent. It appears that private driving schools are selling this clock stuff despite no official use by the Road Safety Authority.

They are pretty clear that you approach every roundabout in the left lane. To take the second exit (straight on, or 12 o clock in some people's speak), they are clear in saying you use the left lane, and that you only use the right lane to go through at "12 o clock"/straight on/2nd exit if the left lane entry is blocked or if instructed by a Garda.

Then, ANY later exits, take the right hand lane.

So, why are people bothering to argue about the clock on a roundabout. You should know in advance what exit you are taking. What lane you enter and exit has officially got nothing to do with the bloody clock face.

So, produce for me an official document from the RSA which instructs people to use a clock face to drive; you cannot because none exists. Private driving schools and your own opinion do exist, complicate the matter needlessly, but that's free speech, isn't it, but that's fine; please read the rules of the road and learn them though. Has it occurred to you that "straight on" might be actually at your 1 o clock or 2 o clock? And that there might be a third exit at 3 o clock? So you are using this 12 o clock garbage, and ignoring the straight on rule that is official. They never mention the time, because of course it means people driving across lanes like morons wondering what time the exit hand is at.

You don't get out a ruler and measure the exact 180 degrees opposite. It's meant to be for people with a bit of cop on to know that straight on might be at your "1 o clock". The second exit. But you would take the right lane and cut across traffic, ignoring the rule to enter the roundabout in the left lane and ignoring the rule that "straight on" is left lane as well. Because you decided that the exit was "1 o clock" or maybe "1:30", i.e., nothing to do with the rules of the road or driving. What if it's half twelve! Oooh! Well another person with your "clock rule" might not agree it's half twelve. = accident.

KNowing what straight on = no accident, and it might be 11 o clock, 12 o clock or 1 o clock or 2 o clock. Does that not make sense to you? That your idea of what time an exit is at is entirely subjective? And that making up such rules doesn't help because other people don't know what rules you are making up? How about just seeing whether it's straight on, and being flexible that it might not be perfectly at 12 o clock, 180 degrees.

The rules of the road have the picture of a perfect 180 degrees straight on. However, you decide in the real world that the exit is more of a 12:30 or 1 o clock, so get into the right lane and then cut back across traffic. This is what a subjective rule like "12 o clock" gets you. In reality, you did know that you were going straight on, and should have used the left lane. It might have been 12:30, or even 13:30 (holy moley!).


There is clear instruction on roundabouts in the 2007 Rules of the Road. These official rules make no mention of using a clock system for roundabouts, but they do expect a driver to have the cop on to know what straight on means.

It's also clear that seeing as the 1st and 2nd exit rule left lane was in the rules 2 years ago, that anyone using the clock stuff has only just recently started to drive. Unsurprisingly.

Stark

Pete4779 wrote: »

Be a bit more flexible and talk to someone about the Asperger's.

Whatever man. You're the one freaking out about people using analogies.

Pete4779 wrote: »

KNowing what straight on = no accident, and it might be 11 o clock, 12 o clock or 1 o clock or 2 o clock. Does that not make sense to you? That your idea of what time an exit is at is entirely subjective?

"Straight on" is just as subjective, smart ass.

Pete4779 wrote: »

It's also clear that seeing as the 1st and 2nd exit rule left lane was in the rules 2 years ago, that anyone using the clock stuff has only just recently started to drive. Unsurprisingly.

Yeah, like Wishbone Ash is a total n00b. :rolleyes:

Just a few posts ago, you were preaching the "1st and 2nd" rule like it was gospel and castigating anyone who dared disagree with you. Now you've been forced to back down on it after people did the work you were too lazy to do yourself, and showed you exactly where you were wrong in the RotR. But sure, do go on insulting everyone who was right when you were wrong.

I think I'd feel a lot better with your friend on the road than you on the road tbh.

Potential-Monke

Pete4779 wrote: »

So, where are people getting this clock idea from? It's not in my older edition of the Rules of the Road, and contrary to what is said above by J_R, the current 2007 Rules of the Road says absolutely nothing of the sort. You took the link from a private driving school's interpretation of the rules.

If you read the comment above properly, you would ahve read that they are the instructions to their examiners of driving tests by the RSA, ie: the Road Safety Authority, ie: the people who make the rules of the road book, ie: Gay Byrne. Yes, it's a link from drivingschoolireland.com but it's what the examiners use!

Again:
Please would people actually read the RSA official Rules of the Road. I am looking at it right now. It's free to download the 2007 edition. The clock stuff is non existent. It appears that private driving schools are selling this clock stuff despite no official use by the Road Safety Authority.

Yes, the clock analagy is not in the ROTR, but neither is the other version people are using (not explaining it again), what we were debating before you decided to was why there was not a clear explination in the new book, which takes over from anything previous, making them obsolete. Both variations can be taken from the new book, but it tends to lean more towards our version of things, which can be compared to a clock.

Then, ANY later exits, take the right hand lane.

So, why are people bothering to argue about the clock on a roundabout. You should know in advance what exit you are taking. What lane you enter and exit has officially got nothing to do with the bloody clock face.

Yes, any later exits, any later exits after straight on (See below)

Has it occurred to you that "straight on" might be actually at your 1 o clock or 2 o clock? And that there might be a third exit at 3 o clock?

Are you telling me if someone asked you what way is straight ahead, you would put out your arm at an angle? Seriously, straight ahead means straight ahead, and the clock analagy was used so people, like you, can understand what straight ahead means.

Let me break it down for you. Nothing to do with roundabouts here. Say you're standing on a big ass mudderfukkin clock at the number 6, looking towards 12. Someone asked you to point out straight ahead. Where do you point? 12. You don't point at 1, or 2, or 1.30 or even 12.30. You point at 12, there can be absolutely no arguement there!

Now apply it to roundabouts. You're approaching the roundabout at 6. 12 is straight ahead, so anything before or including it is left lane, after is the right lane, even if the 2nd exit is after 12. Rocket science, i know... :rolleyes:

It's meant to be for people with a bit of cop on to know that straight on might be at your "1 o clock".

Seriously, where is the logic in that statement, you're basically saying that straight ahead might be past, ah, straight ahead...

But you would take the right lane and cut across traffic, ignoring the rule to enter the roundabout in the left lane and ignoring the rule that "straight on" is left lane as well. Because you decided that the exit was "1 o clock" or maybe "1:30", i.e., nothing to do with the rules of the road or driving. What if it's half twelve! Oooh! Well another person with your "clock rule" might not agree it's half twelve. = accident.

The new book does not say to use the left lane for the first 2 exits, it says use it for left and straight ahead, and you obviously cannot tell what straight ahead is, so you're the one causing accidents by being in the wrong lane.

KNowing what straight on = no accident, and it might be 11 o clock, 12 o clock or 1 o clock or 2 o clock. Does that not make sense to you?

No, it doens't, you're again saying that straight ahead is not straight ahead...

And that making up such rules doesn't help because other people don't know what rules you are making up?

Actually, the majority of people seem to use the clock analagy, it's people like you who think they know how to drive properly and are not willing to change their ways because the way they learned is obsolete...

How about just seeing whether it's straight on, and being flexible that it might not be perfectly at 12 o clock, 180 degrees.

It may not be perfect, but it's not hard to tell what is not more or less straight ahead. Have a look at the example roundabout below. You are the purple car. You are at number 1. You want to go off at number 3, which is the 2nd exit. The blue line shows where straight ahead is. You use the right lane. Simple.

There is clear instruction on roundabouts in the 2007 Rules of the Road. These official rules make no mention of using a clock system for roundabouts...

True, but as i stated a while ago, the clock analagy is used to help people understand different roundabouts, and now, as proven above, is what they are marked on during the test.

...but they do expect a driver to have the cop on to know what straight on means.

Which you obviously have a warped view of.

It's also clear that seeing as the 1st and 2nd exit rule left lane was in the rules 2 years ago, that anyone using the clock stuff has only just recently started to drive. Unsurprisingly.

Times change, and people like you need to change with them.

kaiser sauze

Xennon wrote: »

I refer you again to the ROTR manual that was published previous to the current one, ie published 2 years ago


Now you are telling me that these rules have changed without any notification?

If this is the case then Im glad Ive been corrected, but to me it seems rediculous that they state two different systems without any further clarification.

Hang on, and this just dawned on me, we had a government harp to us about a new up-to-date copy of the rules of the road being dropped in your letterbox. Everyone in the country is supposed to have received one. Came in about 6 months ago, wasn't it?

You have been notified, prior to this.

EDIT - just seen the post after Xennon's saying the same thing!

kaiser sauze

Pete4779 wrote: »

So, where are people getting this clock idea from? It's not in my older edition of the Rules of the Road, and contrary to what is said above by J_R, the current 2007 Rules of the Road says absolutely nothing of the sort. You took the link from a private driving school's interpretation of the rules.

I got the clock idea from my driving instructor, many years ago. It has obviously served me well since I, and others, have been proven right.

Pete4779 wrote: »

Again:
Please would people actually read the RSA official Rules of the Road. I am looking at it right now. It's free to download the 2007 edition. The clock stuff is non existent. It appears that private driving schools are selling this clock stuff despite no official use by the Road Safety Authority.

They are pretty clear that you approach every roundabout in the left lane. To take the second exit (straight on, or 12 o clock in some people's speak), they are clear in saying you use the left lane, and that you only use the right lane to go through at "12 o clock"/straight on/2nd exit if the left lane entry is blocked or if instructed by a Garda.


Then, ANY later exits, take the right hand lane.

Sorry, no. You are reading them wrong. The position of the second exit matters; the way you are attempting to interpret them it is irrelevant where the exit is. That is completely wrong.

Pete4779 wrote: »

So, why are people bothering to argue about the clock on a roundabout. You should know in advance what exit you are taking. What lane you enter and exit has officially got nothing to do with the bloody clock face.

Yes, you're right it has nothing to do with clock faces from a strict reading of the rules, however, the use of clock positions are there to help new learner drivers interpret the correct lane to be in on approach.

We are not arguing, you are. We have reached a consensus, you are trying to pick holes in a proven theory.

Pete4779 wrote: »

So, produce for me an official document from the RSA which instructs people to use a clock face to drive; you cannot because none exists. Private driving schools and your own opinion do exist, complicate the matter needlessly, but that's free speech, isn't it, but that's fine; please read the rules of the road and learn them though. Has it occurred to you that "straight on" might be actually at your 1 o clock or 2 o clock? And that there might be a third exit at 3 o clock? So you are using this 12 o clock garbage, and ignoring the straight on rule that is official. They never mention the time, because of course it means people driving across lanes like morons wondering what time the exit hand is at.

You don't get out a ruler and measure the exact 180 degrees opposite. It's meant to be for people with a bit of cop on to know that straight on might be at your "1 o clock". The second exit. But you would take the right lane and cut across traffic, ignoring the rule to enter the roundabout in the left lane and ignoring the rule that "straight on" is left lane as well. Because you decided that the exit was "1 o clock" or maybe "1:30", i.e., nothing to do with the rules of the road or driving. What if it's half twelve! Oooh! Well another person with your "clock rule" might not agree it's half twelve. = accident.

KNowing what straight on = no accident, and it might be 11 o clock, 12 o clock or 1 o clock or 2 o clock. Does that not make sense to you? That your idea of what time an exit is at is entirely subjective? And that making up such rules doesn't help because other people don't know what rules you are making up? How about just seeing whether it's straight on, and being flexible that it might not be perfectly at 12 o clock, 180 degrees.

The rules of the road have the picture of a perfect 180 degrees straight on. However, you decide in the real world that the exit is more of a 12:30 or 1 o clock, so get into the right lane and then cut back across traffic. This is what a subjective rule like "12 o clock" gets you. In reality, you did know that you were going straight on, and should have used the left lane. It might have been 12:30, or even 13:30 (holy moley!).

I really think you need to stop arguing with yourself. :cool:

Pete4779 wrote: »

It's also clear that seeing as the 1st and 2nd exit rule left lane was in the rules 2 years ago, that anyone using the clock stuff has only just recently started to drive. Unsurprisingly.

I am driving into double figure years. I had actually interpreted the old rules of the road correctly then, as I do now. I have been using roundabouts properly from the first day I did my first lesson. A testament to my driving school.

Sorry to debunk your ludicrous, sweeping generalisation.

GreeBo

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The new book does not say to use the left lane for the first 2 exits, it says use it for left and straight ahead, and you obviously cannot tell what straight ahead is, so you're the one causing accidents by being in the wrong lane.

Times change, and people like you need to change with them.

Thats my problem with it just changing. How can they/Gay decide to change the flow of traffic on our roundabouts without a study and public representation/awareness campaign?
There are lots of roundabouts where using the 2nd exit gives you a different approach lane than using the "straight ahead" exit. Unless they have painted new arrows on all of these roads the traffic will be unevenly balanced and cause blockages on the roundabouts.

I havent noticed many new arrows or a public awareness campaign, have you?
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but arent the ROTR a guideline and not "law" in any way?

Stark

I think they were just correcting some ambiguity in the old RotR, rather than actually changing the law. If you look at the pictures in the old RotR, they talk about "first exit" and "straight ahead", "right turn", whereas the text above says "second exit", leading to confusion.