Joe fluffy strikes again!!

chem

Oh yes the joe is in the driving seat again and seems to be able to whip up the panic in the general public.

12 Nov pod cast.

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml

alan_simon

i had to stop listening about 1 minute in. would someone please explain to this gobsh*te that replica guns CANNOT fire. pellet or bb guns can fire, but after 1 joule u require a license for them. and dont give me that crap about 'oh, they can take an eye out...' so can a sharp pencil. Should we ban sharp pencils too?!

it's rubbish like this that make me think about going into politics, so at least we can have one TD who knows his a*se from his elbow!

revan23

you can't win this kind of silly debate, its the age old problem, people are most afraid of things they know nothing about. and this applies to pretty much everything. a replica, or even an unloaded firearm is about as dangerous as a saucepan.

stevoman

my quote from another thread:

i have to say the airsoft lads did themselves well and kept it calm and collected even when"the joemeister" was backing them into a corner.

i think the big issue was the sales of the airsoft replica's at the toys for big boys exhibition, which in fairness was'nt exactly the greatest promotion for their sport. The organiser did say that their would be no more sales of such items in coming years.

the airsoft assosiation put on a show outside and kicked it all off with a mock kidnapping that started inside the RDS and made its way outside, with the idea of getting the public to follow them outside.

He did go hard on them in my opinion, but at the same time its very hard to tell the differnce between a real gun and these replica's and this very problom did lead to a youth's death in england a few years back when a teenager who brandished one at a police response unit got himself shot and killed for pointing it at them. This led to a law being implemented that you can own and purchase a replica airsoft gun in the UK, but you have to be a member of an airsoft assosiation to do so, as far as im aware, but i stand to be corrected if im wrong.

In fairness that would'nt be a bad idea for here in Ireland either, it keeps the lads in the clubs who are serious about there sport happy and stops the idiots who want to run around pretending to be John Matrix, and in the same time taking some of the heat off the shooting community has a whole.

Mufflets

Jes! thats the first time ive listened to joe duffy, I refuse to believe that hes that backward. Hes obviously trying to whip up hysteria . And his comment about the models at the show "You were getting women to strip to sell stuff" my backward holy aunt wouldnt come out with that.

I cant believe people listen to this

Complete drivvle nonsence!

Tackleberry.

i bought one of these guns years ago while in Spain there pretty cool till you get bored of it i gave mine to a young lad i worked with but the gards took it of him after he tried a bit of duck shooting with it at a local lake they did not do much only take his details and mine were also given as they wanted to know where he got it,notting ever came of it as i hear they would of had to do a ballistics test on it what a laugh but i heard that the gards are taking about 500 of these airsofts every year as people buy them for there kids on hols.......and if you can get this item home on a plane well.......................also i had mini paint balls with mine they were the biz

chem

Mufflets wrote: »

Jes! thats the first time ive listened to joe duffy, I refuse to believe that hes that backward. Hes obviously trying to whip up hysteria . And his comment about the models at the show "You were getting women to strip to sell stuff" my backward holy aunt wouldnt come out with that.

I cant believe people listen to this

Complete drivvle nonsence!

I hear you mufflets, but there are alot of people who do listen in every day, otherwise he would`nt have a show. Problem is once someone hears his show they start thinking the place is awash with killer BB guns. Listen to the woman who says here doubble glaze window was smashed by one. she stated that her window was broke by a BB gun. Asked if she found the pellet "No" and all the time Joe is telling the airsoft experts that she might be on to something and not to laugh at her! HELLO whats going on here?

Joe never even kept his show on topic and allowed people to ring in and go on about gangland killings how hoodies are stocking up on these GUNS.

This is what licenced gun owners are up against every day. There is no talking to these people as they know whats what in there bubble and dont even try to burst it on them. We are going to lose this battle folks unless we can come together. Am I the only one feeling like we are doomed?

bunny shooter

Just listened to the whole thing.

I feel that the lads/ladies running around in a public area with army style clothing, balaclavas and firearms was a silly thing to do. It should have been done in a cordoned off area with the public kept seperate to the "action"

These firearms shouls be used only in controlled areas and in a controlled way in the same way that firearms are used on ranges, either public or military.

This airsoft thing is claiming to be a sport, fair enough, but sport is conducted in/on certain areas, e.g. ranges, sports fields etc.

Without a licence membership of the organisation is a good prequisite for purchase. However, join this year and get your choice of "weapon/s" and don't join organisation next year and you can still keep them.

The argument that they will be used to commit "armed" robbery etc is a bit lame really. Knives are being used a lot to commit crime as are baseball bats, pick-axe handles etc. yet every house has a fine set of knives in the kitchen. And don't forget our own version of the baseball bat, the hurley, extremely dangerous weapon if not used for the purpose it is designed for !

As far as I can see people are frightenend of firearms, be they real or replica, and this is understandable. But I would be equally frightened of a houligan weilding a length of scaffolding tube.

If someone uses a real or repilca firearm to commit crime then as far as I'm concerned deal with it by lenghty custodial jail terms. And if they confront armed Gardai or soldiers then they cannot be surprised at being shot. If you live by the sword you will die by the sword. The Gardai or army will give ample warning before taking action and if they choose to ignore this then so be it. It is a matter of personal responsibility, you pick up a gun and refuse to put it down then you will be shot, simple

N.O.I.P.

Despite how this post is probably going to look I'm genuinely not trying to start an argument here just offering my opinions.

bunny shooter wrote: »

Just listened to the whole thing.

I feel that the lads/ladies running around in a public area with army style clothing, balaclavas and firearms was a silly thing to do. It should have been done in a cordoned off area with the public kept seperate to the "action"

I'll agree with that, after the display on friday it was decided that the action would be kept outside for the remainder of the weekend where it was indeed done in a cordoned off area.

These firearms shouls be used only in controlled areas and in a controlled way in the same way that firearms are used on ranges, either public or military.

Provided they are below 1J they are not considered firearms, that aside I agree with you about them only being used in controlled areas in fact its in the IAA constitution.

This airsoft thing is claiming to be a sport, fair enough, but sport is conducted in/on certain areas, e.g. ranges, sports fields etc.

Thats a little harsh, Airsoft is a sport one of the largest growing sports in the world in fact. A quick google will show just how popular it is worldwide and with the exception of the opening section of the display on friday Airsoft is conducted on dedicated privately owned and run sites not accessible to the general public

Without a licence membership of the organisation is a good prequisite for purchase. However, join this year and get your choice of "weapon/s" and don't join organisation next year and you can still keep them.

Actually thats a good point, I'll have a word with the rest of the IAA committee about this.

The argument that they will be used to commit "armed" robbery etc is a bit lame really. Knives are being used a lot to commit crime as are baseball bats, pick-axe handles etc. yet every house has a fine set of knives in the kitchen. And don't forget our own version of the baseball bat, the hurley, extremely dangerous weapon if not used for the purpose it is designed for !

As far as I can see people are frightenend of firearms, be they real or replica, and this is understandable. But I would be equally frightened of a houligan weilding a length of scaffolding tube.

If someone uses a real or repilca firearm to commit crime then as far as I'm concerned deal with it by lenghty custodial jail terms. And if they confront armed Gardai or soldiers then they cannot be surprised at being shot. If you live by the sword you will die by the sword. The Gardai or army will give ample warning before taking action and if they choose to ignore this then so be it. It is a matter of personal responsibility, you pick up a gun and refuse to put it down then you will be shot, simple

Agree 100%

bunny shooter

N.O.I.P.

As far as I can see there was an error of judgement regarding the activity in the vicinity of the general public. I am not knocking airsoft. I have played paintball twice and loved it. I would enjoy airsoft too, I have no doubts, but what has to be remembered is that the majority of the popultion presume that anyone who like guns or anything to do with them is dangerous. Therefore, you have to be very careful.

"below 1J they are not considered firearms", don't ever forget they look like firearms.

I have been on RDF weapon displays and mothers and fathers have berated us for "glamourising" weapons and war to children.

The principle of don't feed the trolls is a good one

Best of luck with it and I have no doubt I will try it at some stage.

stevoman

i think we should look at from the same aspect, as say cars in this country. you have your professional race drivers in modello etc. (let these compare to the airsoft enthusiats who play the sport), then you have boy racers in done up cars (let them compare to your average fool who gets his hand on a replica).

in essence the few idiot boy racers have more or less got everyone in the car scene a bad reputation and frowned upon by the general public.

i am not part of the IAA nor have i any problom with them and from what i have seen, heard and read they seem to have done a great job with their organisation and sport. I do think that they should push their local TD's to look into the matter of only selling airsoft replica's to club members only (kind of like a firearm license), not just for the safety of thier sport staying legal in the long run, but for the shooting community as a whole, because lets face it folks, the way things are going in this country at the moment i dont think it will be long before its only gun club and rifle range members who will only be allowed to purchase firearms and as soon as that happens you will see every club in the country tighten its belt on members and it will be damn hard to get a firearm lisence of any sort.

bunny shooter

stevoman wrote: »

the way things are going in this country at the moment i dont think it will be long before its only gun club and rifle range members who will only be allowed to purchase firearms and as soon as that happens you will see every club in the country tighten its belt on members and it will be damn hard to get a firearm lisence of any sort.

This would not be a bad thing as it will offer a degree of control over the issuing of firearms licences as long as the gun clus and ranges do not become closed shops and use it as an excuse to jack membership fees up as people will have to join or won't get a licence.

chem

bunny shooter wrote: »

This would not be a bad thing as it will offer a degree of control over the issuing of firearms licences as long as the gun clus and ranges do not become closed shops and use it as an excuse to jack membership fees up as people will have to join or won't get a licence.

I half agree with you bunny shooter. There are already alot of tight controls over who is granted a firearms licence. I feel that if it were to get to the point of NO CLUB/NO GUN it takes away alot of the freedom people have to shoot. It also starts upìng the expence of people starting shooting at a young age + I feel it would be the start of other meassures to "control" licenced firearms.

Dr Strange

I also think that a recognised status of "collector" for deactivated military weapons should be introduced. At least that would be a way of easing their mind about replicas/deacts etc and shows a proactive attitude by the serious collector and not just someone who wants to have an assault rifle deact on the wall "because it looks cool".


As for sharp pencils, etc. Give me a rubber band and some paper clips and I can cause serious chaos.

dresden8

If in doubt rouse the rabble.

Bertie was voted in by the aul'one vote last time and this is exactly the same constituency that Joe appeals to, mad aul'ones at home with too much time on their hands saying how terrible things are.

Crazy bitches run the country.

N.O.I.P.

Preusse wrote: »

I also think that a recognised status of "collector" for deactivated military weapons should be introduced. At least that would be a way of easing their mind about replicas/deacts etc and shows a proactive attitude by the serious collector and not just someone who wants to have an assault rifle deact on the wall "because it looks cool".

The idea works in theory but I can imagine that in practice the current "Pray your super is a nice guy" system would result in dozens of genuine collectors being denied such status because their super was firearmphobic.
There needs to be a set of nationally recognised and abided by criteria for license approval laid out before this would be successful.
That said with the FCP (firearms consultancy panel) in the works now might the time to mention this idea to your NGB

revan23

i dont know about the no club/no gun idea... what about someone in a remote rural area who just wants to go pop a few rabbits on his farm at the weekend? also i think it would just mean that a lot of people would join a club just to get a gun and never use the club again. (i know this happens already, but it would be a lot worse)

chem

Preusse wrote: »

I also think that a recognised status of "collector" for deactivated military weapons should be introduced. At least that would be a way of easing their mind about replicas/deacts etc and shows a proactive attitude by the serious collector and not just someone who wants to have an assault rifle deact on the wall "because it looks cool".


As for sharp pencils, etc. Give me a rubber band and some paper clips and I can cause serious chaos.

Good call Preusse! only problem is it might confuse the powers that be. Im sure its hard enough for them to get to grips with why people want pistols and fullbores. Me thinks its going to have to be one baby step at a time.

I have a friend in the north who has collector ststus. He has 3 P38`s (reson give to PNLI) 3 different manufactures. He also has an application in for a MP40 LIVE and looks like he`ll get it!

johngalway

To make it a condition that gun ownership would be dependent on being a member of a gun club/range would be a disaster for most rural shooters. I live out in Connemara nearish Clifden and I do not wish to join my local gunclub as I know well how they operate and don't want to be a part of that 'set-up'. My 'local' fullbore rifle range (to the best of my knowledge) is bloody Tullamore. Given that I'm 1hour 10 minutes-ish the wrong side of Galway city who here thinks I or most people in my position would use that regularly?, I know I wouldn't.

Dr Strange

Hi guys,

thanks for your comments on the collector's issues. I only wanted to throw it in as athought so that we are not left out in the cold. I don't know how many collectors also have firearms licences but it may be easier for the ones that do to also get permission for deacts. I know that security still seems to play a role wether you can import and possess a deactivated gun or not. Even for my deacts the gardai looked for a secure and alarmed house and happily I have all that anyway.

The problem is that replica firearms are being used in criminal offences and sooner or later the powers that be will introduce some kind of restriction on deacts and replicas. Now mind, there will have to be adifference between replica status and deact status but in the end if a criminal wants to use either gun for intimidation no citizen being threatened with it will now the difference.

I agree, similar with the firearms certs it will depend on your Super in the end.
I was just thinking of something proactive in the field of deact collectors before they start making them illegal or something like that.
Even a membership of a club or collectors body vetted for etc. could be a solution but I don't know of such a body here in Ireland.

In germany you have the possibility to own a live militaria weapon let's say from WWII for collectors purposes once it has been put on your firearms licence and has been changed to semi-automatic with reduced magazine capacity. You can get a different firearms licence as a collector allowing you a certain amount of live firearms with higher magazine capacity as long as they are changed to semi-auto or single shot. A hunters firearms licence is similar but your militaria weapon can only hold a maximum magazin capacity of two rounds. The sporting firearms licence is different again.

What they all have in common is that they allwo you a certain ammount of rifles/pistols but once your licence is full you cannot add any more firearms to it. If you see something that interests you and you want it, you will have to drop another gun from you licence first. Also, as mentioned, they do allow you to, let's say, have a MP40 but changed to semi-auto or single shot. G43 and others are also available on these licences.

Deactivated weapons are free to buy and hold as they are regarded as toys. Deactivation procedures have to be in line with current regulations.

Sorry for the length of the post. I just wanted to voice my concerns as a firearms cert holder and a deact collector.

Best,

Preusse

revan23

why dont they just put more restrictions on ammo? you cant shoot someone with an empty gun....

rrpc

revan23 wrote: »

why dont they just put more restrictions on ammo? you cant shoot someone with an empty gun....

I don't understand your logic. What restrictions and for whom?

bullets

Preusse wrote: »

Deactivated weapons are free to buy and hold as they are regarded as toys. Deactivation procedures have to be in line with current regulations.

I'm interested in collecting de-acts what the procedures for getting
one. Is it based on a letter or permission from the Super or can you
buy them in the same way as an airsoft where you dont have to have
any interactions with the Local Gardai? but more so deal with customs
procedures?

Is there places in Ireland you can buy? Is there websites?

I've been very interested to get a deactivated FAL for a long time.
For display/collector purposes only. (ie wall hanger)
I have an airsoft one but it does not feel right
I have no wish to go through the pain and torture of trying to import
a fullbore or .22 version of one as its bad enough my local super
wont increase my ammo limit from 100-500 for my rifle.
I doubt I would have the patience and cash for importing one.

Seen the de-acts at the toys for big boys show but the FN displayed
there was in crap condition and you could not even cock. it.
I want something that can be field stripped. I dont care if the barrel is
plugged or there is no fireing pin or its disabled so can never fire but having
what felt like all the internals welded together seems a bit much.

I have been collecting airsoft stuff cos its mostly hassle free and I
can have something that looks even if it does not feel like the real
thing hanging on the wall.

~B

Dr Strange

Hi bullets,

have a look over in the militaria forum. There is a thread about deacts: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055172044

For import you will need an article 7 authorisation just the same as with any other kind of firearm. If the deact is already sold by e dealer here you won't need to contact your gardai but I would do it as a matter of good conduct. At least you have a comeback if something happens with your deact being stolen etc and some questions being aske where did you get it and for what reason etc. Once your Super or local officer knows that you collect it's less hassle.

That's just my opinion. Also it may be helpful to be known by your Super as a collector in case some regulations come in in future regarding deacts. Wouldn't be nice to have spent a lot of money on a good collection and then having to destroy or get rid of the whole lot.