Great Irish Speeches

The Chessplayer

Just bought this book called 'Great Irish Speeches' down in Eason's - yes I'll be palming it off as a Christmas present. Some excellent speeches in there though, but then you get to the last 20 pages and somehow her beigeness Mary McAleese has managed to get in on the act.

I can understand Bertie getting in there because of his popularity, 3 terms in office and all that - however boring his speech may be, but a dullard like McAleese? Here we have gripping speeches such as Emmett in the dock. I know that political public-speaking may not be as rife with memorable quotes as once it might have been, but seems like a shame to include a bore like McAleese when they could have included any number of Michael McDowell speeches. One thing that could always be said for McDowell is there was never a dull moment. He was a fantastic speaker.

Thought it would have been funny to put in Enda Kenny's "Sign the Contract" speech in there too. Classic!

Mrs. MacGyver

Is Jim Larkin's 'all for each' speech in there?

The Chessplayer

I think so, it's called "If they want war, then war they will have". Not sure, haven't read it yet Mrs. Just read that Collins used to recite, from memory, Emmett's speech as a party-piece. Would be a great one to belt out in a drunken stupor while resisting arrest.

Fratton Fred

At the risk of being controversial, this speech is by an Irishman, Colonel Tim Collins (Born in Belfast in 1960).

Whilst you will probably disagree with the reasons why he was giving this speech, I think it is very well thought out. In hindsight we all know what happened, but I ask for a minute just concentrate on the speech itself.

We go to liberate not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their country. We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag which will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Show respect for them.
There are some who are alive at this moment who will not be alive shortly. Those who do not wish to go on that journey, we will not send. As for the others I expect you to rock their world. Wipe them out if that is what they choose. But if you are ferocious in battle remember to be magnanimous in victory.

Iraq is steeped in history. It is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood and the birthplace of Abraham. Tread lightly there. You will see things that no man could pay to see and you will have to go a long way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though they have nothing. Don't treat them as refugees for they are in their own country. Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.

If there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves.

It is my foremost intention to bring every single one of you out alive but there may be people among us who will not see the end of this campaign. We will put them in their sleeping bags and send them back. There will be no time for sorrow.

The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his nemesis and that we are bringing about his rightful destruction. There are many regional commanders who have stains on their souls and they are stoking the fires of hell for Saddam. He and his forces will be destroyed by this coalition for what they have done. As they die they will know their deeds have brought them to this place. Show them no pity.

It is a big step to take another human life. It is not to be done lightly. I know of men who have taken life needlessly in other conflicts, I can assure you they live with the Mark of Cain upon them. If someone surrenders to you then remember they have that right in international law and ensure that one day they go home to their family.

The ones who wish to fight, well, we aim to please.

If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer. You will be shunned unless your conduct is of the highest for your deeds will follow you down through history. We will bring shame on neither our uniform or our nation.

[Regarding the use by Saddam of chemical or biological weapons] It is not a question of if, it's a question of when. We know he has already devolved the decision to lower commanders, and that means he has already taken the decision himself. If we survive the first strike we will survive the attack.

As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.

Our business now is north.

Snickers Man

Very moving Fred, but maybe it's because this speech was such a cliche having been uttered many times before, in essence, that it wasn't considered.

Can you spot any similarities with the following.

"Our military operations have as their object the defeat of the enemy and the driving of him from these territories.....
..our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies but as liberators. Since the days of Hulagu [grandson of Genghis Khan] your citizens have been subject to the tyranny of strangers...and your fathers and yourselves have groaned in bondage. Your sons have been carried off to wars not of your seeking, your wealth has been stripped from you by unjust men and squandered in different places.
...It is the hope of the British government that the aspirations of your philosophers and writers shall be realised once again, that the people of Baghdad shall flourish, and shall enjoy their wealth and substance under institutions which are in consonance with their sacred laws and wtih their racial ideas....
It is the hope and desire of the British people...that the Arab race may rise once more to greatness and renown amongst the people of the earth...."
etc etc

This was made in the same place as Tim Collins, talking about the same people only 85 years earlier. It was a proclamation by General Maude [not Irish so far as I know] to the Iraqi people. Collins just said the same sentiments in a posh Belfast accent.

And I don't speak a word of Japanese or Burmese, but I will bet my bottom dollar that the Japanese military made a very similar speech or printer similar posters when they invaded Burma and kicked the British out in 1941-42.

The Chessplayer

That speech is not of Irish-interest, so I'm sure it wouldn't have even been up for consideration. I've never even heard of Tim Collins.

I wonder is there a transcript of Roy Keane's speech to Mick in Saipan - that would have been a diverting inclusion.

Fratton Fred

Well it was an Irishman and it may have been done before, but I thought it was good. :rolleyes:

Snickers Man

I'd prefer to have seen one of Willie John McBride's pre-match exhortations to his players in there. Particularly the one given before a match with England in which he "allegedly" said something along the lines of:

"These English b*****ds have an in built superiority complex compared with us. They look down on our country, on the way we talk, the way we worship, the way we eat and drink. They thinke we're a bunch of unsophisticated, uncultured, uneducated savages, only able to fight and **** without an erudite or subtle bone in our bodies. The sort of people you wouldn't leave alone with your children, fit only to live in a stable and survive on a diet of raw meat, potatoes and buttermilk.

Let's not disappoint them!"

yomchi

Tim Collins speech is colonial propaganda, him and his army are well known for their crusades across the globe.

Is Robert Emmets speech in the book?

Fratton Fred

Jon wrote: »

Tim Collins speech is colonial propaganda, him and his army are well known for their crusades across the globe.

Is Robert Emmets speech in the book?

Tim Collins is a crusader?

Wow, I didn't think he was that old:rolleyes:

The Chessplayer

Jon wrote: »

Tim Collins speech is colonial propaganda, him and his army are well known for their crusades across the globe.

Is Robert Emmets speech in the book?

Yes, Emmet's speech is in there, but as I said the book really falls down on the inclusion of some awful speeches that were no doubt received with many a collective yawn and stretch by the audience.

The editor has compiled a rough history of contemporary Ireland based on political milestones. Understandable as this is, modern day speeches from the likes of Mary McAleese and Bertie Ahern concerning the historical "troubled" relationship between Ireland and Britain, don't really capture the imagination. Understandably Ahern's speech to the House of Commons would have to be in there just to round things off.

No doubt that the editor just wanted to reflect the more moderate approach to such divisive issues, but that doesn't make it necessarily good for reading.

Almost astonishingly though, Micheal Martin gets in on the act with a speech about banning smoking in public places. Still, on the whole I'd recommend it, if only for that hilarious speech by De Valera, "The Ireland which we dreamed of."

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Well it was an Irishman and it may have been done before, but I thought it was good. :rolleyes:

Colonel Tim Collins OBE is british, not Irish. The title of the thread is Great Irish Speeches and not Great british Speeches. As Jon says his " speech is colonial propaganda ", it's just an attempt to dress up british invovlement in the onslaught as some sort of liberation and not the oil/profit driven war that the vast majority of us know it really is.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Colonel Tim Collins OBE is british, not Irish. The title of the thread is Great Irish Speeches and not Great british Speeches. As Jon says his " speech is colonial propaganda ", it's just an attempt to dress up british invovlement in the onslaught as some sort of liberation and not the oil/profit driven war that the vast majority of us know it really is.

I wish you'd make up your mind. One minute Belfast is Ireland, now it's Britain.

Tim Collins is as Irish as Willie John McBride so maybe Snickers is wrong as well.

The Chessplayer

I'm wondering how the hell a pair of no-marks like Tim Collins and Wille Joe McBride even make their way into a thread about great Irish Speeches.

Fred - before you do a Ruth Dudley Edwards, I can reassure you that there are plenty of left-footed speeches in there too: Carson, Paisley, Trimble (making an absolute buffoon of himself)...and John Fitzgibbon, Earl of Clare (well worth a read).

Fratton Fred

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Fred - before you do a Ruth Dudley Edwards, I can reassure you that there are plenty of left-footed speeches in there too: Carson, Paisley, Trimble (making an absolute buffoon of himself)...and John Fitzgibbon, Earl of Clare (well worth a read).

What, write a novel:D

I'll add this book to my Christmas list.

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I wish you'd make up your mind. One minute Belfast is Ireland, now it's Britain.

Tim Collins is as Irish as Willie John McBride so maybe Snickers is wrong as well.

Never said that Belfast was a british city altough it is obviously under occupation by the british armed forces. Around 900,000 ( and not a million as they and their supporters suggest) affirm that they are british and I have no problem agreeing with that. If McBride, Alex Higgins or any other unionist wants to claim they are british, then they are british. But the terroritory of the Six Counties, although under foreign occupation for the moment, is IRISH, every city, every town, every blade of grass. When Irish unity comes about (theorectically the nationalists will outnumber the unionists in 16 years - but that's another discussion), if some unionists are not happy with this and do not wish to live under democratic Irish rule, well fine by me, they can go back to the mainland.

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Never said that Belfast was a british city altough it is obviously under occupation by the british armed forces. Around 900,000 ( and not a million as they and their supporters suggest) affirm that they are british and I have no problem agreeing with that. If McBride, Alex Higgins or any other unionist wants to claim they are british, then they are british. But the terroritory of the Six Counties, although under foreign occupation for the moment, is IRISH, every city, every town, every blade of grass. When Irish unity comes about (theorectically the nationalists will outnumber the unionists in 16 years - but that's another discussion), if some unionists are not happy with this and do not wish to live under democratic Irish rule, well fine by me, they can go back to the mainland.

Not bad, but I don't think it will make it into the book:D

davejones

"but the fools, the fools, the fools!" ... The speech Padriag Pearse gave at the funeral of O'Donovan Rossa.

Always liked that one.:)

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not bad, but I don't think it will make it into the book:D

For once I agree with you.

The_Minister

Is Dessie O'Malley's "I stand by the Republic in there"?
If not then that book is flawed

The Chessplayer

The_Minister wrote: »

Is Dessie O'Malley's "I stand by the Republic in there"?
If not then that book is flawed

Yep, it sure is

Erin Go Brath

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Not bad, but I don't think it will make it into the book:D

What McArms speech in post #16 is not in the book. :eek: The book can't be up to much so.

I like this speech:
"I came to the resolve that the attempt was not only worth trying, but should be tried in the very near future if we wanted at all to keep our flag flying; for I was sure as of my own existence that if another decade was allowed to pass without an endeavour of some kind or another to shake off an unjust yoke, the Irish people would sink into lethargy from which it would be impossible for any patriot to arouse them" - James Stephens 1884

McArmalite

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

What McArms speech in post #16 is not in the book. :eek: The book can't be up to much so.

I like this speech:
"I came to the resolve that the attempt was not only worth trying, but should be tried in the very near future if we wanted at all to keep our flag flying; for I was sure as of my own existence that if another decade was allowed to pass without an endeavour of some kind or another to shake off an unjust yoke, the Irish people would sink into lethargy from which it would be impossible for any patriot to arouse them" - James Stephens 1884

What can I say Erin, I'm lost for words ......:D:D:D

yomchi

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Tim Collins is a crusader?

Wow, I didn't think he was that old:rolleyes:

Why don't you look the word crusade before you go rolling you eyes

Fratton Fred

Jon wrote: »

Why don't you look the word crusade before you go rolling you eyes

yep, sarcasm doesn't come across well on t'internet.

Maybe I should have added a or a

yomchi

its all good!