Where are all the talkers gone?

flahavaj

So I've been watching some old Superstars and they're showing the Greatest Stars of the 80's on Sky Sports at the moment and something struck me.

Where have all the great promo guys gone? The TV stuff I was watching was the lead up to the 1992 Rumble and literally everyone in the thing can cut an at least passable backstage promo. The there were the managers, the Heenans, the Mouth from the South, The Jim Cornettes: they were fantastic talkers.

Since the advent of Sports Entertainment the day of the studio wrestling show has ended. Wrestlers no longer need to cut promos into a mike and rarely give one on one interviews. Its no wonder that a lot of the roster can't get over when they no longer have a forum to get theirt opinions over. Take a team like London/Kendrick, good in the ring, high flying, take lots of crazy bumps, yet their matches get almost no reaction from the crowd. If they had even a chance to show their personalities or inded if they're that bad on the mic had a mouthpiece who copuld cut a few good backstage promos maybe the audience would have a reason to get behind them

And looking at the roster of today its hard to see any true greats on the mic. No one stands out like a Flair, a Rhodes, a Foley, a Rock or an Austin who can literally hold a crowd in the palm of their hand.

As I said, where have the talkers gone?

Melion

Hopefully Jericho brings it back when he returns. He has always been one of the best mic workers in the business. None of the top-carders are good on the mic(bar HHH and HBK), Orton is awful, Cena even worse. I wont even mention Batista etc from SD. The 2 Hardyz have never been good(hence why they were given Hayes when they broke through first).

Terry

Well Jericho is back on Monday, so hopefully there will be some good stuff from him.

He doesn't even need someone to bounce stuff off.

HHH cut an amusing promo a couple of weeks back after Austin soaked the ring, but his amusing stuff is rarely seen these days. Same with HBK.

Armando Estrada was good for a bit, but his thing got tired after a few weeks.


Thinking about it now, you're dead right.
There are very few people these days who can cut a funny promo and those who can are given the serious stuff.

Melion

Long gone are the days when all top carders had to be able to use the mic and couldnt make it to the top without that talent.

Gerard.C

Eh, Santino Marella anyone?? His promos lately have been brilliant, especially the one with him and "Cold Stone Steve Austin"

flahavaj

Gerard.C wrote: »

Eh, Santino Marella anyone?? His promos lately have been brilliant, especially the one with him and "Cold Stone Steve Austin"

I think the guy's hilarious I really do but I'm talking all time greats here, guys who send a shiver down your spine with an awesome intense promo so powerful that you start to genuinely care about what he's talking about, like Foley's "Cane Dewey" promos or Flair's impassioned speech at the reformation of the Horsemen.

Melion

Gerard.C wrote: »

Eh, Santino Marella anyone?? His promos lately have been brilliant, especially the one with him and "Cold Stone Steve Austin"

But he will never be a world champion. Carlito and Chavo are great on the mic but will never be world champion. There is nobody around nowadays who has the talent in the ring and on the mic to be a "Superstar" in the mould of Austin, Foley, Rocky etc

Gerard.C

That's fair enough. I remember the build up to ONS 2 and Summerslam a few years ago, Flair, Foley and Terry Funk were having seriously great promos. To think that in 2006 or whenever it was, that they were the guys with great promos. Those were the last powerful promos that I can remember in the last few years anyway.

But I am in full agreement with you. Nobody new today can cut a great money promo. 'Tis a crying shame.

Gerard.C

Melion wrote: »

But he will never be a world champion. Carlito and Chavo are great on the mic but will never be world champion. There is nobody around nowadays who has the talent in the ring and on the mic to be a "Superstar" in the mould of Austin, Foley, Rocky etc

The subject of this thread is promos, not in-ring skills....

Melion

Gerard.C wrote: »

The subject of this thread is promos, not in-ring skills....

But back in 99-00 you couldnt make it to the top without being able to work the mic, no matter how good you were in the ring back then you wouldnt make it to the top without being able to use a mic. And no matter the lack of talent you could make it to the top if you could use the stick(Rock was the perfect example)

I see the 2 of them tied together for a big name world champion but maybe thats just me. I cant stand champions who cant use the mic.

Rjd2

Edge has excellent skills on the microphone plus he a really good wrestler as well.

Melion

Rjd2 wrote: »

Edge has excellent skills on the microphone plus he a really good wrestler as well.

One of the few out there today

Fozzy

Punk has been awesome on the mic plenty of times in the past but he obviously hasn't been given much of a chance to do anything like that in WWE yet. I'd say that there's other guys who are good but who just don't get a chance, like Jamie Noble and Trevor Murdoch. If anyone's seen the videos Murdoch did on WWE.com a year ago or so you'd know what I mean

It all comes down to Vince not feeling that mic skills are that important anymore. There's still great talkers outside of WWE, with Larry Sweeney up there at number one

Vince135792003

Lack of practice. Simple as that. You hear and read interviews of guys from the 80's who would say that they would spend hours doing regional promo after regional promo to promote WWF house shows.

Now they just don't get the chance to improve.

ShawnRaven

Marella is a one trick pony. Once people get sick of the same old sh*t every week, he'll eventually stop being funny, the crowd will boo him, he'll still be **** in the ring, and McMahon will release him.

Only reason Cena still has a job is because his ring skills improved (drastically), cos his mic work got very stale very quickly.

VR!

MikeHoncho

validreasoning! wrote: »

Only reason Cena still has a job is because his ring skills improved (drastically), cos his mic work got very stale very quickly.

VR!

Cena got over because of mic work. He was nobody until he started doing his thug life white rapper gimmick. It got old really quick but the yanks ate that sh!t up. I know and you know it was crap but it is what got him over. If they hadnt done that Halloween episode or whatever it was where Cena dressed up like Marky Mark he would never have been as big as he is today.

On the bigger subject I think the reason mic work has gone down hill is because its all too scripted. I know in the past guys were just given points to hit and then it was up to them how they did it. Hence there personalitys came through and the promos didnt seem as forced.

ShawnRaven

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Cena got over because of mic work. He was nobody until he started doing his thug life white rapper gimmick. It got old really quick but the yanks ate that sh!t up. I know and you know it was crap but it is what got him over. If they hadnt done that Halloween episode or whatever it was where Cena dressed up like Marky Mark he would never have been as big as he is today.

On the bigger subject I think the reason mic work has gone down hill is because its all too scripted. I know in the past guys were just given points to hit and then it was up to them how they did it. Hence there personalitys came through and the promos didnt seem as forced.

Oh i won't disagree that it's what got him over. The vanilla babyface role he was playing in 2002 was going nowhere fast. My point is that it was funny for a while and it did get him over, but once that got stale, he had to make up for it very quickly with in ring ability, and he did.

I just don't see Marella being able to do that.
VR!

ec18

Plus Marella's promos are written for him.....not the superstars of 99-00

TOPDAWG

ec18 wrote: »

Plus Marella's promos are written for him.....not the superstars of 99-00

Man i miss them times,tuning every friday and saturday (without ever having had raw and smackdown spoiled for you!) and just waiting to see what The Rocks, Austins, DX's and co's were gonna SAY never mind DO!!

Each week almost it seemed there was a new catchphrase, a new twist on a catchphrase, a great off the cuff promo. Nowadays a fella drops a line, crowd goes crazy,fella/creative rides that catch phrase week in week out, until people get sick of it, then he keeeeeps on doing it anyways while the dollars roll in off the merchandise.

I dunno is it that the creativity in wrestlers minds these days is weak or if they're all just under a tight rein.

Twas interesting to hear Shawn say during the Dx promo a few weeks ago "This is worse that that katie vick stuff!!"

Thats my 2 cents.

grames_bond

this thread is the exact reason why i think when hbk and hhh came back from injury they should have picked up wer they left off with dx, they brought back some of that fun factor with their endless promos that just kept gettin funnier! i htink the last big proper mic work was austins "what?!" a few years ago, the crowd still use it today! but we all know there will never be anyone as good as the rock, they are tryin to make cena do that kind of stuff but it isnt funny or good, i look forward to jerichos return on monday (one of the worst kept secrets ever, the ad is so clear) coz that guy could use a mic!

Bubs101

Ironically, at a time where the WWE have very few good guys on the mic they seem content to let people who are brilliant on it feck off to TNA. Angle and Christian are fantastic on the mic and would probably be top of the pile in the WWE in that regard.

As for who's there, I think Kennedy is good, just on bad form and Helms could easily just return to the Hurricane if needed but I think that ECW has the most potential in this regard. 3 of their top 4 are very good on the mic/promos. Punk might not have done anything of note in the WWE, but I saw his promo in England about drinking during his feud with Raven and it was brilliant. Morrisson is gold as the Tuesday Night Delight although I didn't see the commentary debacle yet. The MIZ goes without saying. And Big Daddy V has a great speaker as a manager in Styker. Hell, Even Burke is good in that regard.

Maybe the reason that Vince keeps bringing himself into programming again and again is because he realises that he is probably the best talker they have at the moment

Muff_Daddy

Bubs101 wrote: »

Ironically, at a time where the WWE have very few good guys on the mic they seem content to let people who are brilliant on it feck off to TNA. Angle and Christian are fantastic on the mic and would probably be top of the pile in the WWE in that regard.

As for who's there, I think Kennedy is good, just on bad form and Helms could easily just return to the Hurricane if needed but I think that ECW has the most potential in this regard. 3 of their top 4 are very good on the mic/promos. Punk might not have done anything of note in the WWE, but I saw his promo in England about drinking during his feud with Raven and it was brilliant. Morrisson is gold as the Tuesday Night Delight although I didn't see the commentary debacle yet. The MIZ goes without saying. And Big Daddy V has a great speaker as a manager in Styker. Hell, Even Burke is good in that regard.

Maybe the reason that Vince keeps bringing himself into programming again and again is because he realises that he is probably the best talker they have at the moment

Morrisson is the worst mic worker in the WWE, bar Khali.

Terry

Fozzy wrote: »

Punk has been awesome on the mic plenty of times in the past but he obviously hasn't been given much of a chance to do anything like that in WWE yet. I'd say that there's other guys who are good but who just don't get a chance, like Jamie Noble and Trevor Murdoch. If anyone's seen the videos Murdoch did on WWE.com a year ago or so you'd know what I mean

It all comes down to Vince not feeling that mic skills are that important anymore. There's still great talkers outside of WWE, with Larry Sweeney up there at number one

Are you talking about the cribs type thing they did?

I got a laugh out of that.

Click.

Other Murdoch stuff here.

I have to say that I'm a huge mark for him.
I hope they give him some mic time during his inevitable feud with Cade.

Fozzy

Terry wrote: »

Are you talking about the cribs type thing they did?

Yeah that's it. I thought he was gas on it. And his film reviews were really good too. I think he's a much better wrestler than people give him credit for

Double C

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Morrisson is the worst mic worker in the WWE, bar Khali.

Wrong on two counts.

Khali on the mic is funny, it sounds like he makes up the words he says, I love it. Morrison is brilliant. Im a huge fan of CM Punk but Morrison has been way more entertaining on ECW over the last few months. The slow mo intro is quality and the Tuesday Night Delight is one of the better promo gags that WWE have given to anyone in the last while. The Doors lyric references in his promos are great too.

WWE stinks right now for promo guys. Cena is great on the mic, but he is constantly given drivel, gay jokes and the like. MVP is WWE's brightest spark right now.

As for as guys outside WWE, Larry Sweeney stands head and shoulders over everyone else, his laugh is as good as DiBiase's. Chris Hero is pretty good too. Adam Pearce is very good as well, but this Hangmen 3 thing is lame. It would be grand but for BJ Whitmer. Jimmy Jacobs is good too, but I saw a guy on the ROH boards making the point that his backstage promos are great but the in ring ones suck, and he's dead right. I'm a fan of James Storm's work in TNA too. That's all for now.

Muff_Daddy

Double C wrote: »

Wrong on two counts.

Khali on the mic is funny, it sounds like he makes up the words he says, I love it. Morrison is brilliant. Im a huge fan of CM Punk but Morrison has been way more entertaining on ECW over the last few months. The slow mo intro is quality and the Tuesday Night Delight is one of the better promo gags that WWE have given to anyone in the last while. The Doors lyric references in his promos are great too.

WWE stinks right now for promo guys. Cena is great on the mic, but he is constantly given drivel, gay jokes and the like. MVP is WWE's brightest spark right now.

I hate the whole Tuesday Night Delight gimmick. His slow-mo entrance looks crap in my opinion. And he is an absolutly horrendus talker, he stumbles over lines and is almost robot-like in his deliverance. That commentrary debacle was not a one off, just listen to that 'press confrence' he did on Raw last year.

And hearing Khali mumbling with marbles in his mouth to me isn't funny in the slightest.

The WWE is severly lacking good mic-workers though, it has to be said, but there is still guys like HHH, HBK, Edge, MVP, "Jericho", Punk and of course Vince himself.

tdv

HBK was great on the mic before he joined that strange cult.

Minto

tdv wrote: »

HBK was great on the mic before he joined that strange cult.

What cult? Ya mean when he became a born again Christian?
If ya do, I don't agree, he is still great, just tones doesn't do all the DX stuff he used to. I found that to be a big problem with DX-2006, but he is still good to the mic.

ShawnRaven

Michaels still rules on the mic, his program against Hogan 2 years ago is proof of that. So he doesn't make anymore dick jokes (maybe with the exception of Vince loves Cock). It's not like they'd be funny 10 years on, i dunno about you guys, but i've kinda grown out of finding dick jokes funny in the last 10 years, I assume Michaels did too.

VR!

tdv

That promo he did with Hogan (great promo btw) was when he was heel & I personal think he's alot better as heel. Nobody can draw as much heat as HBK as heel. I just think his whole personalilty has changed & he's seems to have lost alot of weight aswell.

Terry

Fozzy wrote: »

Yeah that's it. I thought he was gas on it. And his film reviews were really good too. I think he's a much better wrestler than people give him credit for

I totally agree.
He's brilliant.

The problem is that he has an 80's style gimmick.

People see the mutton chops, ginger hair and lack of well, I don't know how to put it really. He's just not the pretty boy/ ripped to bits performer that this generation is used to seeing.

Ric Flair, the wrestling genius that he is, would not get over today.

Now I know that Murdoch is not Flair and probably never will reach those heights (space mountain), but he's damn good and deserves a lot more respect than he is given. Sadly, I can't see it happening. The wrestling world is far too fickle these days.

One last thing; Movie?

Fozzy

Movie? Are you talking about his film reviews that I mentioned or the possibility of him being in a movie? He'd be awesome if WWE ever made a comedy film!

I still hold out hope for him getting a getting a good shot in WWE. He was trained by Harley Race and WWE are big fans of Harley's. I think Murdoch is still the head trainer at Harley's school, he might not look fit but you can bet that he is if he can do the warm ups that Harley puts his students through!

Brimmy

validreasoning! wrote: »

Marella is a one trick pony

You take that back, Marella is f*cking awesome!

validreasoning! wrote: »

Only reason Cena still has a job is because his ring skills improved (drastically), cos his mic work got very stale very quickly.

Cena's ring skills have always been his limiting factor and the reason smarks turned against him, his mic was always great but the 5 moves of doom can be seen from a mile away, that coupled with the RAPADOOO marine gimmick meant a quick turn on Cena, his matches for what they were worth have always been solid.

Fozzy wrote: »

Punk has been awesome on the mic plenty of times in the past but he obviously hasn't been given much of a chance to do anything like that in WWE yet. I'd say that there's other guys who are good but who just don't get a chance, like Jamie Noble and Trevor Murdoch. If anyone's seen the videos Murdoch did on WWE.com a year ago or so you'd know what I mean

It all comes down to Vince not feeling that mic skills are that important anymore. There's still great talkers outside of WWE, with Larry Sweeney up there at number one

I agree with this post in so many ways, Murdoch is hilarious when given the chance and a great worker to boot, he also has the classic 'old school' feel and looks like a guy who will viciously beat the **** out of you in a bar at the drop of a hat.

Larry Sweeney is awesome as well but most of the ind guys today are, Jimmy Jacobs is another and possibly the best guy out there at the moment but the kings of wrestling as a whole are four of the best in the current indy scene.

ec18 wrote: »

Plus Marella's promos are written for him.....not the superstars of 99-00

Wrestling was VERY scripted back in 99, except they were given more leeway than those of today, Jericho/Foley/Rock are the only three of the top of my head that could go off in a random direction and cut a 5/5 promo back in the attitude days hell before that even in ECW/WCW (Jericho/Foley) and hell even SMW for Foley. "Candido, Candido... I'll make you bleedo", a ricockulous promo but delivered by Foley it's one of the all time greats.

grames_bond wrote: »

this thread is the exact reason why i think when hbk and hhh came back from injury they should have picked up wer they left off with dx, they brought back some of that fun factor

Who wants to see a bunch of forty year old men making cock jokes that were old ten years ago when they started them in the first place? DX breaking up was a god send and we got Michaels back to full form as a result pushing himself in an excellent feud with Cena where at Wrestlemania you legitimately thought that Michaels going to go over.

That said although mic work is sucking at the moment that's all going to change once a certain Classic Colt Cabana gets promoted from OVW :cool:

Brimmy

Muff_Daddy wrote: »

Morrisson is the worst mic worker in the WWE, bar Khali.

This deserves its own reply...

Are you serious? Have you even seen ANY of ECW when he transformed (literally transformed, there's no other word for it) from a ****ty bland everyday WWE heel to the most charismatic dastardly asshole on the roster (next to Edge).

Literally you went from a guy who 2 weeks previous on Raw who couldn't say his own name ("My name is.... Jo..Jo...Johnny... Ni-tro?") to the "guru of greatness", "the shaman of sexy", a guy who is "a portal to the infinite" to those who are "an average footnote in a fleeting reality".

Morrison next to Jericho/Edge is probably the BEST mic worker the WWE has had in the last 5 years.

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

Movie? Are you talking about his film reviews that I mentioned or the possibility of him being in a movie? He'd be awesome if WWE ever made a comedy film!

I still hold out hope for him getting a getting a good shot in WWE. He was trained by Harley Race and WWE are big fans of Harley's. I think Murdoch is still the head trainer at Harley's school, he might not look fit but you can bet that he is if he can do the warm ups that Harley puts his students through!

I've always liked Murdoch and found him athrowback to the days when wrestlers of any shape were pushed if they have talent. They obviously see something in him to have given him a chance when his physique is everything they don't normally like.

There was a tease of a storyline a few weeks ago on RAW between him and Mickie James, (whose new finisher with the kiss thrown in is the greatest thing ever BTW)but then they promptly forgot about it.