Rodents in attic

dade

`Guys I have a top floor apartment and was disgusted to find some rodent droppings in my attic. What prompted me to look was i heard some scratching noises in the walls near my fireplace. i had a look and called my management company who said they'd have someone out in a day or so. This was not acceptable on my part so i got someone out.

the chap had a look and noticed that roughly in the area where i heard the little buggers there is a gap in the attic floor. basically there is what looks like a shaft down behind my fireplace into the apartment below me. This isn't a chimney or flu of any kind coz it's a timber frame structure and we use Gas fires only (pre plumbed in by the builder) and if it was a flu it should obviously expel into my attic space.

So anyway I sent the receipt to the management company (they guy wanted paying which is fair enough) and they have said its not their responsibility.

Now my argument is this, I don't keep mice as pets so they must have come in from outside, as we have a communal entrance and management are responsible for this communal space they are responsible for the issue. secondly as they where in the attic and possibly walls (there is no evidence they where in my living) again they must have come from outside and into the apartment through a hole in the outside walls and up through that gap i mentioned or else might mouse moved in and he flew in a window.

Anyone any thoughts, other than ya filthy b@stard clean your place and ya wont have mice??

patrickolee

Mice are in your flat. Your responsibility to get rid of them, how they got in doesn't matter.

Borzoi

dade wrote: »

`the chap had a look and noticed that roughly in the area where i heard the little buggers there is a gap in the attic floor. basically there is what looks like a shaft down behind my fireplace into the apartment below me. This isn't a chimney or flu of any kind coz it's a timber frame structure and we use Gas fires only (pre plumbed in by the builder) and if it was a flu it should obviously expel into my attic space.

Anyone any thoughts, other than ya filthy b@stard clean your place and ya wont have mice??

Inside your apartment = your responsibility. You might have some claim if there was no rodent traps in the common ares/grounds, but I doubt it.

I'd block that shaft with a can of expanding foam though, and leave poison up in the attic

dade

patrickolee wrote: »

Mice are in your flat. Your responsibility to get rid of them, how they got in doesn't matter.

even if they come in through a hole in the wall that management are responsible for maintaining? even if these holes had been pointed out to management 12 months ago. Because I'm top floor how can i be responsible for them getting in? they have to have come in through some exterior access point which management are responsible for maintaining.

Borzoi wrote: »

Inside your apartment = your responsibility. You might have some claim if there was no rodent traps in the common ares/grounds, but I doubt it.

there's none in the electrical cabinet in the hall that i can see, and i have never seen any around the sides of the buildings (like ya see outside office blocks.)

Borzoi wrote: »

I'd block that shaft with a can of expanding foam though, and leave poison up in the attic

it's a fairly big hole at least a foot wide and a foot or two long. its like the developer left it open for running the gas pipes up From the street and never closed it off. Gonna sort out the hole this weekend, and the pest guy dropped a bucket load of posion down it.

patrickolee

so basically what u are looking for is for someone to say you are right and its not your problem at all, its all the nasty management companies fault. Or maybe it's the corpos fault for not cleaning some rubbish outside and attracting the vermin. Or maybe it's the gubberment for allowing widespread mouse population to grow over successive years, through their reckless policies.... or maybe you should just buy a trap and stop looking for someone else to blame!

dubtom

So anyway I sent the receipt to the management company (they guy wanted paying which is fair enough) and they have said its not their responsibility.

I agree with managment company,they agreed to get the problem sorted,at their expense.How can they possibly be responsible for your bill. You simply had to wait a day or so and get the job done for nothing. Infact, you could have insured that the whole building was treated at their expense if you had just waited,problem solved for good,now you've probably got a fight on your hands just to get them to send someone out.

dade

patrickolee wrote: »

so basically what u are looking for is for someone to say you are right and its not your problem at all, its all the nasty management companies fault. Or maybe it's the corpos fault for not cleaning some rubbish outside and attracting the vermin. Or maybe it's the gubberment for allowing widespread mouse population to grow over successive years, through their reckless policies.... or maybe you should just buy a trap and stop looking for someone else to blame!

the management company allegedly have pest control out every 2 weeks, if that is true the should there not be bait in the communal areas? Should there not be bait in for example the bin sheds etc? non of this exist.

Now i didn't raise these little buggers as pets, and chances are they don't have wings so they didn't originate in my apartment. Seconded to the fact that if they cam in through the roof into my attic then the roof is under managements responsibility. if they came up through a hole in an outside wall into a communal area and then up the inside of the walls I'm gonna guess that it may be managements responsibility as they are responsible for the external walls. Add to this that this is the second time in 12 months that rodents have been seen out their droppings seen in our block then yeah I'd say management are responsible for footing the bill. I sure as hell wouldn';t blame the government as you suggest there's more than enough rodents in their department. Also being a top floor apartment I'd have to be one scruff sod to attract rodents up that high, through the walls etc wouldn't you think? now i know they can get any place and climb drains etc but still for a top floor unit to have them is a little extreme unless they're in all units.

dubtom wrote: »

I agree with managment company,they agreed to get the problem sorted,at their expense.How can they possibly be responsible for your bill. You simply had to wait a day or so and get the job done for nothing. Infact, you could have insured that the whole building was treated at their expense if you had just waited,problem solved for good,now you've probably got a fight on your hands just to get them to send someone out.

would you wait a minimum of 48 hours to just have someone come out when you had sat in your living room and heard them scratching at the walls? personally i wouldn't hence why I got someone else out as the management company said it would be at least 48 hours before they could have someone out.

dubtom

Well, yes I would. As much as a rat in the walls would freak me out, their in the walls, not running around the kitchen. I understand that you felt you needed to take action, but in this case I would put it down to experience. From my experience where exterminators are concerned, it's not just a pop in job and solve the problem, if done correctly it could take weeks. Firstly they should find out where the rats are coming from, they do this by baiting their runs and seeing what area's have been disturbed (rats will follow the same path) and will exit the building to get water if they need it, then they would try to trap them (laying poison for the rat to die behind your wall is not a good idea) Finally sealing all outside area's when it has been defiantly determined where the rats have come from and are gone from the property. It can be a lengthy and expensive job, chances are you wasted whatever money you paid that guy unless he has committed to come back and insure that the problem is solved, and in an apartment block that won't be cheap. Throwing poison down a hole will not fix it. So if anything, I would chase up that guy you paid and either get a refund or a guarantee that he's done the job right.

dame

Agree with dubtom. I hope the poison isn't going to mean you now have dead rodents rotting behind walls and in your attic.

patrickolee

Hang on, is it rats or mice? dub_tom was the first mentioner of rats. OP which is it, or do you know? If it's rats you're probably better off getting professionals in. The poison they give them, makes them thirsty, so they go outside to get water and die outside, rather than in the walls (hopefully).

dade

patrickolee wrote: »

Hang on, is it rats or mice? dub_tom was the first mentioner of rats. OP which is it, or do you know? .

from what i was told the first time they came in over a year ago it was mice, comparing the dropping i recall the last time to what i saw this time it again looks like mice. I was told the droppings are bigger for rats.

in relation to the poison my understanding is that it makes them feck off some place else to die. how i don't know but your explanation seems plausible.

obviously my no 1 concern is that they are getting into the walls some place and as my apt is timber framed it is highly possible for them to get into the living space though possible gaps in plasterboard under the floors etc. during my discussion with the management company they (like most management companies) tried to pass the blame onto me. they said they have pest control out every 2 weeks, that the mice can come in through down pipes and holes in the walls etc. i see no evidence of pest control, no boxes of poison in the common areas of the block like the electrical cabinet, no boxes of poison (metal ones) outside the block. Also i mentioned to them a year ago that under the balcony of one of the other units had a lot of old wrappers and rubbish in a huge hole. (the balcony is metal just resting over this hole). what did they do? filled in the edges of the hole, no sign of the rubbish being removed and the hole filled in completly.


hope teh f it's not rats i know they're a lot harder than mice to get rid of.

How Strange

The management company should have bait boxes (rectangular steel boxes) placed at all entrances to the building. This is the extent of their remit but if they haven't placed the boxes down yet they should do so immediately. There would be no poison laid down as this would be a health and safety hazard.

If there are holes in your walls then get a few cans of expanding foam and fill them in.

dade

How Strange wrote: »

If there are holes in your walls then get a few cans of expanding foam and fill them in.

yeah doing that around my apt on Friday night, checking behind kitchen presses, hot press etc for gaps. But there's still that damn big shaft at the fireplace between units gonna need a lot of expanding foam for that one LOL.

yeah those bait boxes are the yokes I'm on about i didn't see any around the block at all and don't recall there being one in the bin sheds either (we have communal bin sheds one for each block. )

patrickolee

dade wrote: »

from what i was told the first time they came in over a year ago it was mice, comparing the dropping i recall the last time to what i saw this time it again looks like mice. I was told the droppings are bigger for rats.

in relation to the poison my understanding is that it makes them feck off some place else to die. how i don't know but your explanation seems plausible.

My parents had rats in their attic a couple of years back. That's what the Rentakill guys told them anyway. And sure enough, the found all the bodies in places that indicated they were indeed trying to get a drink. Poor things.

If the holes are largish, you should crush some glass and put that into the foam/filler mix. It cuts them when they try to remake the hole.

dade

the hole in my attic is pretty much above the fireplace, I'd say it's a shaft that was used to run the gas pipes up to each floor from the ground and run cable aswell. gonna pick up plasterboard sheets and have a go this weekend at closing at least the top part so if any more swines get in they wont get into the attic that way.

in the mean time i guess I'll just have to keep ignoring the letters from the management company looking for that remaining money id deducted from my fee.

antoinolachtnai

If you are closing up small gaps, use steel wool as part of the mix. They don't like to chew on it. Broken glass is good too as mentioned, but may be less convenient.

It sounds like there are a few gaps in your construction. Perhaps I am being overly cautious, andyou would need to consult an expert on this if you have a concern, but gaps are a problem from a fire safety point of view. These gaps could allow smoke to enter during a fire below, and could also provide a bridge for the fire to enter your property.

This is a very technical issue, so it is hard to say without getting an expert involved.

I would block up holes with something other than expanding foam if I could, maybe plywood. You and your neighbours might need that shaft at some stage in the future (to install computer cables or something.

dade

jaysus don't mention the F word around our estate. very big rumour back at Christmas last year about the place and a little spark and who was responsible and negligent etc. but yeah gaps like that can cause a hazard from that point of view in that as fire would take the path of least Resistance and low and behold at the top it meets some nice flammable insulation.

anyway climbed up last night with my thrust hammer and saw and blocked up what i could reach with plasterboard. basically i can only walk on the beams in the attic and the point is near the front of the building so there are a lot of joists and i can only twist myself about so much.

so hopefully that and the poison dropped down the hole will keep them out of the attic, though not out of the walls.

and of course a week later no response from management about the issue other than the original feck off we're not paying.