New Audi A4

Donie75

Anyone seen one in the flesh yet? Looks like a really nice machine with lots of new engines and seems to have a slightly better standard spec than the previous model.
Channel 4 Motering give it a good review... http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/audi/a4/2642/2

What do ye boarders think of it?

C_Breeze

My god they arent making cars very futuristic or modern looking are they? Its almost 2008 and im sure our good poverty spec ones will have crappy bumpers, 1 exhaust exit and crappy 16" steelies.

Very early 2000 looking car.

Front lights are nice tho other than thatboooooring , the back looks like a current model Passat!

E92

Base engine is a 1.8 TFSI here, don't know how "basic" they can make that.

mike65

Quite a subtle evolution of the existing chassis. No harm, the model is a big seller.

Mike.

Táck

i think its lovely...i am a bit of an audi fan though

C_Breeze

"Lovely"? ... thats what i'd expect to hear from an old dear admiring her brand new '08 1L yaris! :rolleyes:

JoeA3

its a fairly subtle evolution... perhaps a bit too subtle. But I'm sure it'll still look a handsome enough car in the flesh... but not with the poverty spec wheels, etc you often see on Irish models.
I've seen some new A5's for up sale on carzone for serious money with some sad looking alloys, which look lost under its bulky body.

mike65

C_Breeze would you ever drop the "attitude" not all of us are stroppy teenagers.

Mike.

C_Breeze

Mike65, stroppy teenager - no (im 22) . Bored in work - yes!

Sorry for being a little light hearted, didnt mean to cause offence

mike65

22?

Pesky kids!

Mike.

Longrangedriver

Is there a release date yet, I have already gone to view some current models of the advant, but still unsure about buying an Audi for close to €50,000 with no rear electric windows:eek:.

Probably better of waiting for the new model I suppose.

Gegerty

Very nice but I'm guessing those images are with sporty body that doesn't come standard. I think the subtle evolution is a good tactic with the A4. It's a car you will hang on to and they respect that by not changing the looks too drastically. Older models won't look too dated. Now all I need is approx 42K :-p

for those who don't have a spare 42K the Saab 93 biopower works out at about 36K after the VRT rebate. The "cheap" mans A4 :-)

Gegerty

Longrangedriver wrote: »

Is there a release date yet, I have already gone to view some current models of the advant, but still unsure about buying an Audi for close to €50,000 with no rear electric windows:eek:.

Probably better of waiting for the new model I suppose.

Early 2008, don't think an actual date is set yet.

Meister

Sine, VW/AUDI have taken on the distribution themselves, do you think we will now get the Uk spec, as happened when BMW tokk it on direct?

f22

Looks pretty sweet to me, although take away the s-line body kit and the RS wheels and you'll have rather blander version that most Irish drivers will get.

Audi work much like BMW used to, standard car and then spec it up and watch the price of the car go up by 10,000. In the UK you buy standard, SE or sport (s-line), and then simply add a few additional options.

Here we get ridden for everything bar the steering wheel.

JJJJNR

Most important part of the new A4......

Backbone of the A4 range will be the new common-rail 2.0-litre range of diesels that are new not only to Audi, but are the future diesel powerplants for the rest of the VW Group. Bulk sellers will be the 141bhp and 170bhp versions, and a low-emissions version with an expected 120bhp that follows later next year.

E92

JJJJNR wrote: »

Backbone of the A4 range will be the new common-rail 2.0-litre range of diesels that are new not only to Audi, but are the future diesel powerplants for the rest of the VW Group. Bulk sellers will be the 141bhp and 170bhp versions, and a low-emissions version with an expected 120bhp that follows later next year.

Not in this country they won't. The oil burners will be hamstrung with 30% VRT, unlike the entry petrol's which will be in the 25% VRT band. That will make them very expensive compared to the petrols.

A 1.4 TFSI(the one VW calls a TSI) with 125 bhp is meant to be on the cards too, and thats in the 22.5% band, so it will be several thousand euro cheaper than the entry diesel.

peasant

Apart from the grille it looks like what the 3 series should have looked like ...and that's no compliment to either marque,

copacetic

f22 wrote: »

Looks pretty sweet to me, although take away the s-line body kit and the RS wheels and you'll have rather blander version that most Irish drivers will get.

Audi work much like BMW used to, standard car and then spec it up and watch the price of the car go up by 10,000. In the UK you buy standard, SE or sport (s-line), and then simply add a few additional options.

Here we get ridden for everything bar the steering wheel.

thats not true at all, we get basically the same options as europe/UK but they are called attraction (standard), ambition (sport) and ambiente (SE). The s-line is a set of options that can be added to any of they above. There are of course options on top of this but the ambition spec say, with metallic paint will be a decent spec.

They will likely start out like with the A5, with no base spec available, just an SE version. There won't be a 1.4TFSI or a 1.6 in the new A4 (never mind the TSI:rolleyes: which won't appear in the current range of audis at all)

The base engine long term will be the 130bhp version of the 1.8TFSI, coming later next year. There will also be a 211bhp 2.0T.

E92

More info about the new A4 can be found on VAG Drivers, where they incidentally think that the 1.8TFSI won't go below 160 bhp(considering that VAG could squeeze 125 bhp from an NA 1.8 with no direct injection a good few years ago its highly plausible thought). But it's all speculation yet, nobody knows for sure bar Audi.

colm_mcm

the rear is very 3 series coupe looking

copacetic

just a follow on about the specs available here, for instance the 2.0TDI manual will be 45k in std spec. SE spec adds 2,400 and sport adds 3200.

As mentioned above the 1.8T will be a much better bet imo, it is 4k cheaper that the 2.0TDI and a fair bit quicker. It would take me around 4 years of driving before I would make back the extra cash in savings on fuel.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

As mentioned above the 1.8T will be a much better bet imo, it is 4k cheaper that the 2.0TDI and a fair bit quicker.

That would be to ignore all the extra torque of the diesel, which is thing that makes a car overtake. The stats show that the petrol is faster around the track yes no question, but it won't be faster in the real world. Mind you with 184 lb ft of torque for the petrol and 160 bhp, it won't be found wanting in the overtaking department either. And with the VRT rejig, it should reduce the purchase price of the paraffin stove(though not until next June). And diesel will have better resale values too than the petrol(though it will cost more to tax, but hopefully when Minister Gormly gets his act together and changes the annual car tax structure to CO2 as opposed to what hes going to do soon, it will work to the diesel's advantage too). So it won't quite be a 4k premium in reality. You pay more now but get back more later too.

copacetic

personally I prefer the smoother power delivery of the 1.8T, around town it it a much better engine imo. Even when overtaking I prefer the smoother feel, not the smack in the back of the tdis. Besides the TFSI still has 250Nm, not exactly low torque. The 2.0TDI is a '4k premium in reality' though, not sure how you can argue with that. They charge you 4k extra of real yo-yos to buy it!You will get some of that back if you sell on but that doesn't save you anything up front. Who knows what the vrt rejig will do, personally I doubt it will make much difference to prices.

Interesting take on the 1.8T in latest top gear mag too:

top gear Audi A4 review wrote:

The indomitable Audi juggernaut rolls on, and there will be no stopping it. Here's the new version of the biggest-selling and most important money-making model in the range, and Audi isn't leaving things to chance - it's bigger, more efficient, more refined, with a range of superb engines and aggressive styling, including an optional R8-esque strip of LED driving lights to tell lesser road users to get the hell out of the way.

This car is the very essence of Audi - we can expect the new A4 to be good, then, riding as it does on a completely new chassis. Twelve million miles of testing in all conditions on every continent on earth won't have hurt, either.

If this brand isn't a phenomenon in the motoring world already, it is fast approaching it. Look at this year's sales growth - up 5.7 per cent in Europe over 2006, while Mercedes-Benz has dropped 1.2 per cent and BMW has grown only by 0.2 per cent. Jaguar has dropped a startling 20.6 per cent in the same period. Poor old Jaguar. In the UK, it's a similar story: Audi is up by 20 per cent year-on-year, while its premium rivals have struggled, and overall UK market share is up to 4.3 per cent, hot on the heels of BMW (4.58 per cent).

If things keep going the way they are, Audi will soon reduce its rivals to rubble. Even BMW has every right to be genuinely worried in the face of this onslaught. The guys that brought you 'Vorsprung durch Technik' have got the image right, the styling right and the package right - no wonder people are queuing up to buy the cars.

The blue A4 you see on these pages is a 2.0-litre TDI SE turbo-diesel six-speed manual, the car that will make up the bulk of A4 sales in the UK, where about 70 per cent will go to company car users. I can guarantee that any exec would be thrilled to receive one of these, and will immediately be aware of the improvements over the outgoing model. While it looks a little bit heavy from the rear three-quarter view, especially on this standard 17in wheel, the overall effect is purposeful and thrusting. And big. Seriously big.

Bigger is better and the A4 is now comfortably bigger than its rivals from Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Let's compare it to the new Mercedes-Benz C-Class, the current class benchmark: the Audi is 17cm longer, 10cm wider, with a 10cm longer wheelbase than the Merc, yet is the same height.

It has 25 litres more boot capacity, 2.5cm more rear headroom and 7cm more rear leg room. All of these are significant, but the figures can only partially convey the impressive size of this car when you see it in the metal - it is closer in dimension to the original A6 than it is to the outgoing A4.

The proportions are different too - as in the A5 coupe (which uses the same chassis), the front differential is mounted ahead of the front axle, allowing the latter to be moved forward 154mm compared to the old car. That growth has been used to create more space in a longer cabin - and it's something you can feel.

The engine is excellent, as you'd expect of any VW Group diesel. It revs cleanly and quickly, doesn't throw too much noise into the cabin - though it is not as hushed as the equivalent BMW or Merc - and returns very decent fuel economy. It develops 143bhp and 236lb ft of torque, which isn't bad, but that crucial torque figure trails the Mercedes C220 CDI's 295lb ft and the BMW 320D's 251.

Audi argues that at £23,940 for the base 2.0 TDI SE, it beats its rivals on value for money, and it's hard to argue: the Merc's base price of £26,302 seems inflated, as does the 320D's £25,285. But that's before you add any goodies, all of which soon add up. A £40K A4 is a surprisingly easy car to build.

You don't have to look around the interior for long to understand that the A4, as ever, is the class- leader: the design is slightly more fussy than Audis of the past, more 'styled', with its sweeping multi-layered, multi-textured, multi-contoured dash, but that's not a criticism. Audi leads the world for interior design, fit and finish, and this car moves it further ahead.

Equipment levels, even for the standard SE, are pretty impressive: three-zone climate control, 10-speaker sound system with 6.5in colour screen, automatic headlights and wipers and rear parking sensors are all standard.

You have to pay more for the snazzy LED day driving lights, sadly - they come as a package with xenon headlamps and cost £775 - and there are plenty of other expensive options to choose from, including a superb Bang and Olufsen audio system, ventilated seats (a first for this class of car) and a swish, large-screen satnav controlled by Audi's MMI system (a rotary knob surrounded by switches - similar in concept to BMW's iDrive, but vastly superior and more intuitive).

This is a spacious car. There is plenty of shoulder, hip and head room front and back, and the whole effect is open and airy. The rear seat backrest is almost as body-hugging as the front buckets, with a very deeply sculpted shape. Seems like the idea of moving that front axle forward has paid off - this car feels roomier than its German competitors. A big advantage.

Punt it along a challenging road, and the A4 is nimble and neat, doing nothing spectacularly well but not letting its driver down either. The steering has enough directness and feel to make driving the car quickly quite good fun, and although it changes direction swiftly, with minimal body roll, push harder and the inevitable understeer kicks in. Still, it's agile and interesting enough to worry any BMW or Mercedes, if not quite match them - and a quick run in bigger-engined models confirmed the basic quality of the chassis.

With quattro four-wheel-drive punching 60 per cent of drive to the rear wheels, the car has great traction out of corners.The A4's handling is by no means great, merely competent and certainly effective enough for its customers - that extends to the ride, too, which felt borderline choppy over the few bumpy roads we encountered on the launch roads in Sardinia. We await a decent drive in the UK for the final verdict on the ride quality: there's a fair chance the worst roads in Britain will show this car up.

Of the other versions we sampled briefly, the big 3.0 TDI probably suited the car best, while the 2.7 diesel felt a bit tardy, especially mated to the CVT auto - for overall ability, the 160bhp 1.8 TFSI petrol ran the 3.0 TDI close, and I'd choose the petrol engine over the 2.0-litre diesel. The little turbo 1.8 develops plenty of torque (251lb ft), gets from 0-62mph in 8.6secs and still returns 39.7mpg on the combined cycle.

It's a shame we only had a day with the new A4. More time would lead to a greater appreciation of its strengths. Some of the other wizened hacks felt the same - like the car didn't quite live up to its billing, as if all of this technical prowess was achieved at the expense of an identifiable, likeable character. An A6 or an A8 has a tangible, solid, technocratic nature: this car is merely capable.

Other criticisms? The climate switch system is fiddly and over-complex: it forces you to press a button and then twirl a knob to change the fan speed or the way the air is distributed - two actions, which doesn't make it easy when you're fumbling around in the dark. You probably get used to it over time, but why not a single switch for the fan and other functions?

And I found the MMI rotary system a little too complex, certainly more so than the equivalent Mercedes COMAND set-up, which puts the equivalent of Audi's switches onto the screen, making it easier to use. Still, if you've ever ventured into the cryptic world of BMW's iDrive, MMI is a blessed relief.

But these are minor niggles. It was the overall appeal of the car that I couldn't quite get a handle on, given the short time on board. Where the 3.0 TDI Audi A5 absolutely did it for me - blew me away, in fact - the A4 left me feeling a little cold. A full back-to-back group test with its main rivals will definitely be an interesting occasion.

Still, even if I hated the new A4, it wouldn't make any difference to its sales future, which no doubt will be exceptionally strong and keep that Audi juggernaut on track. Fundamentally, this car is superb, a machine that will keep its owners happy and, just as importantly, keep them loyal to the brand. Amazing to think that this is now an old project to the engineers at Audi: they'll already be well advanced on the next, surely even bigger and better, A4.

When I saw the stark sales graph Audi helpfully provided, with Jaguar's plummeting figures taking its bar right into the depths, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the British marque. And those sad figures got me thinking...

Imagine this for a moment: a B-segment Jaguar to take on this Audi - warm, cosseting, luxurious, quiet, with all the dynamic abilities and ride refinement of the XK and XF but in a compact package. It would have grace and pace and a brand image to die for, and it would make you feel special driving it. Moreover, it would have in spades what this new A4 lacks: genuine charm.


Top Gear | Audi A4 Car Review | 9 November 2007

E92

copacetic wrote: »

The 2.0TDI is a '4k premium in reality' though, not sure how you can argue with that. They charge you 4k extra of real yo-yos to buy it!You will get some of that back if you sell on but that doesn't save you anything up front.

I know you actually do pay 4k more now, and I omitted it when I quoted you the first time, but you said it would take you 4 years worth of driving to get back the cost of buying a diesel.

The stuff I said about better resale values means that you will get some of the extra cash back when you trade in, as you said yourself. The biggest cost of owning a car is depreciation. The only point I'm trying to make is that saying the oil burner will cost €4k more overall isn't true, it sure does costs 4k more now, but it will pay back when you sell on, so the net cost of a diesel is somewhat less than 4 grand. And I posted details in a few of those threads about whats meant to be happening next year about the VRT rejig, and if they turn out to be true, the oil-burner will cost(based on 25% VRT) around €41,250, so that would only be a premium of €1,300 over the petrol, assuming Audi don't pocket the difference of course!

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

I know you actually do pay 4k more now, and I omitted it when I quoted you the first time, but you said it would take you 4 years worth of driving to get back the cost of buying a diesel.

The stuff I said about better resale values means that you will get some of the extra cash back when you trade in, as you said yourself. The biggest cost of owning a car is depreciation. The only point I'm trying to make is that saying the oil burner will cost €4k more overall isn't true, it sure does costs 4k more now, but it will pay back when you sell on, so the net cost of a diesel is somewhat less than 4 grand. And I posted details in a few of those threads about whats meant to be happening next year about the VRT rejig, and if they turn out to be true, the oil-burner will cost(based on 25% VRT) around €41,250, so that would only be a premium of €1,300 over the petrol, assuming Audi don't pocket the difference of course!

The 4 years was assuming you held on to it alright.

the 1.8T is 41.1k (delivery included) while the 2.0TDI is 45k flat. so if the tdi comes down to 41250 it would be the same basically which would make it a much harder decision alright. would prob stick with petrol myself though!
although is the 1.3k diff you are guessing at based on the 1.8 comimg down in price too?

E92

copacetic wrote: »

although is the 1.3k diff you are guessing at based on the 1.8 comimg down in price too?

Nope, its *meant* to be an emissions tax. So it would benefit the diesel, since the petrol pollutes more CO2. But what I think is *actually* going to happen is a bit of both, i.e. same as before, but a lower rate for cars under a certain CO2 threshold, and more than the present for cars that exceed a certain other threshold.

So a 1.4 that has the same emissions asa 1.8 will still have a lower VRT rate, but a 2.0 with CO2 emissions a good deal lower than the same 1.8 would both have the same VRT rate. Its all just speculation at the moment, until the Budget day comes, its hard to know what will really happen. All prices quoted by me are ex-works(which is the way they all quote them), so add another grand onto the diesel for the prices you're using.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Nope, its *meant* to be an emissions tax. So it would benefit the diesel, since the petrol pollutes more CO2. But what I think is *actually* going to happen is a bit of both, i.e. same as before, but a lower rate for cars under a certain CO2 threshold, and more than the present for cars that exceed a certain other threshold.

So a 1.4 that has the same emissions asa 1.8 will still have a lower VRT rate, but a 2.0 with CO2 emissions a good deal lower than the same 1.8 would both have the same VRT rate. Its all just speculation at the moment, until the Budget day comes, its hard to know what will really happen. All prices quoted by me are ex-works(which is the way they all quote them), so add another grand onto the diesel for the prices you're using.

the prices I have are all delivery included, it is what the dealers are quoting. So 45k is delivery included on a 2.0TDI.

Incidently a lower bhp 1.8 and 2.0TDI aren't speculation, they were confirmed a long while ago by audi no matter what the guys on vag drivers say!

It is either 120bhp for both, or 120 for the TDI and 130 for the 1.8 and it may not be a TFSI, prob just an FSI. They are due next June along with the 180 and 210 versions of the 2.0T.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

the prices I have are all delivery included, it is what the dealers are quoting. So 45k is delivery included on a 2.0TDI.

Incidently a lower bhp 1.8 and 2.0TDI aren't speculation, they were confirmed a long while ago by audi no matter what the guys on vag drivers say!

It is either 120bhp for both, or 120 for the TDI and 130 for the 1.8 and it may not be a TFSI, prob just an FSI. They are due next June along with the 180 and 210 versions of the 2.0T.

Yeah I know thats what you're quoting. Sorry I put it rather clumsily in my previous post. What I'm quoting is the ex-works price, so when I said add another grand on the 2.0 TDI, I meant my hypothetical price of €41,350 should be increased by around a grand to give the prices you're using.

Maybe the 1.8 will be just an FSI. I know they are planning a 2.0 TDI will less power than 143 bhp version(they have to because the old 1.9 wioth 115 bhp is being discontinued for the entire VAG range), but VAG are starting to move away from NA petrol engines,they're planning over the next few years to make most if not all their petrols turboed AFAIK. Of course, thats not to say you're wrong, I've no crystal ball!

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Yeah I know thats what you're quoting. Sorry I put it rather clumsily in my previous post. What I'm quoting is the ex-works price, so when I said add another grand on the 2.0 TDI, I meant my hypothetical price of €41,350 should be increased by around a grand to give the prices you're using.

Maybe the 1.8 will be just an FSI. I know they are planning a 2.0 TDI will less power than 143 bhp version(they have to because the old 1.9 wioth 115 bhp is being discontinued for the entire VAG range), but VAG are starting to move away from NA petrol engines,they're planning over the next few years to make most if not all their petrols turboed AFAIK. Of course, thats not to say you're wrong, I've no crystal ball!

ah, i get you now, apologies.

see this months cbg newcar mag for a amazingly glowing review and mention of the 120bhp 1.8 and 2.0TDI. Also the listing of engines here:

http://www.germancarzone.com/a4-s4-rs4/20311-new-engines-a4.html

is directly out of press information packs that all the magazines and papers are working off. Pasted below. Basically Audi are using their TFSI and TDI technology to allow them to offer an engine at every possible bhp by the looks of it.

January:

A4 1.8 16v FSI 120ps Man 6
A4 1.8 TFSI 160ps Multitronic
A4 3.2 V6 265ps QUATTRO Tiptronic 6
A4 2.0 TDI 143ps Multitronic
A4 2.7 V6 TDI 190ps Man 6

(In April will start the production of A4 Avant version )

June:
A4 2.0 TFSI 180ps
A4 2.0 TFSI 210ps

A4 2.0 TDI 121ps
A4 2.0 TDI 170ps
!!!A4 2.0 TDI 209ps QUATTRO MANUAL 6!!! (The most powerful diesel on the market for Ps/liter)

A4 3.0 TDI 240ps