Dug, recovered or relic items.

SpitfireIV

Thought I'd share a few 'relic' pieces I have seen as there was a couple of relic helmets shown in the helmet thread the idea just came to mind.

I guess its a somewhat controversial area, I personally have no problem with single pieces once they are in no way connected with someone who died, ie personal belongings, or parts that you know came from a person (ie uniform parts etc).

The first item is a German bayonet for the Kar98, I was informed by the seller that this was recovered in Croatia (if I remember correctly). I'd imagine this bayonet was found in its scabbard (although it didnt come with one) but the blade has survived a lot better than the hilt/pommel which is badly pitted and still has some good blueing, the release catch still works with no touble at all! Its maker marked 'MUNDLOS' and serious number '6070a', the spine of the blade is marked '38' so I assume thats for 1938, just need a K98 to put it on now








The next item is a No1 MkII wire cutter from c.1917 which was fitted to the end of an SMLE and used to cut barbed wire. The device was spring loaded, the two curved arms guided the barbed wire into the jaws, the soldier then rotated his rifle upwards thereby closing the jaws, pinching the wire, and cutting it.

These items are extremely rare, those that werent lost on the battlefield were either discarded as they proved ineffective against German wire, or ordered destroyed after the war as they werent of much use anymore. Only a few fully functioning examples exist.

SpitfireIV

The final item is a No5 MkI 'Mills Bomb' (this has been 'drilled' to render it useless), this one, along with others were recovered from a dug out. The filler screw, spoon and pin would appear to be replacements. The base screw is marked with the 'Mills Patent' and manufacture date of August 1916 and manufactured in Birmingham.

Dr Strange

Nice CB1798. The bayonet is a standard issue with bakelite grip-plates. As you said the hilt is quite corroded. I would not try to put that on a K98 rifle Rather spend a bit more money on a bayonet in better condition and fix that to the rifle!

I think it is okay to post items like these as long as they do not come from soldier's graves etc. I am a member of the German War Graves Commission and also a member of an organisation in Germany that is actively involved in the location, excavation, identification and proper burial of WWII graves.

Even a bayonet like this can count as a personal item as it may have been found with a soldier's remains. However, that cannot be assumed for the majority of these items as most of them come from collectors or dealers in good conditions etc.

I would draw the line at dog-tags though unless they are from your own family member or yourself. There is a huge business for German dog-tags in Russia these last couple of years were they dig out known German mass graves or battle fields and remove items from the remains without even notifying anyone. These remains have forever lost their chance of being identified properly. So people buying these dog tags on Ebay should be aware that they are actually feeding the business of robbing military graves and removing soldiers' identity.

If Hagar is ok with it I will put dog tags on the restricted items list for this forum unless they are family-related or the owner is still living.

As for the grenade. Nice one! As long as it is made clear that ityems like these are completely and legally deactivated.

SpitfireIV

Preusse, I dont know whether you keep watch of the 'relic' items on e-bay, but I seen one that I thought was particularly disturbing a couple of weeks back. The seller was offering a 'number' or 'collection' of relic items, these relics were layed out in human form, ie, helmet at the top, next were the remains of leather shoulder straps, then buttons, buckles, ammunition pouches, canteen, mess tin, rifle, bayonet and boot heels........it was quite obvious that all of these items has come from one person! :eek: it was a German soldier too

As you say, I'd never touch personal items like dug dog tags, watches, rings, combs etc, I think thats taking it too far.

Dr Strange

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Preusse, I dont know whether you keep watch of the 'relic' items on e-bay, but I seen one that I thought was particularly disturbing a couple of weeks back. The seller was offering a 'number' or 'collection' of relic items, these relics were layed out in human form, ie, helmet at the top, next were the remains of leather shoulder straps, then buttons, buckles, ammunition pouches, canteen, mess tin, rifle, bayonet and boot heels........it was quite obvious that all of these items has come from one person! :eek: it was a German soldier too

As you say, I'd never touch personal items like dug dog tags, watches, rings, combs etc, I think thats taking it too far.

Yes, I do watch Ebay for these items from tiem to time and Iknow there are dedicated people from some of the War Grave organisations doing the same. Unfortunately, it can be quite difficult to convince ebay that some items are dodgy. It is quite sad, really.

Mick86

Preusse wrote: »

....There is a huge business for German dog-tags in Russia these last couple of years were they dig out known German mass graves or battle fields and remove items from the remains without even notifying anyone. These remains have forever lost their chance of being identified properly. So people buying these dog tags on Ebay should be aware that they are actually feeding the business of robbing military graves and removing soldiers' identity....

Sorry for straying off-topic but have there been attempts to create German War Cemeteries in Russia or repatriate the soldiers. If so what progress has been made?