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Giving up rights to a child

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  • 18-11-2007 1:18am
    #1
    patrick2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭


    Hi everybody,

    I think this is the right place for this one so here goes,
    A friend was in a relationship with a woman who was married but told my friend she was leaving the husband, my friend and this woman had a child. While she was pregnant she told my friend she was going back to the husband and told my friend she had a miss carriage. My friend found out that there was infact a child and went after visitations etc which he was granted as a DNA test proved he was the dad. This woman made life hell for my friend as the baby was always asleep during these visits and the ignorance that her family showed was unbelievable to say the least. For that reason and a few others that I dont need to say anything about but are related my friend has decided to give up his rights to the child and she has also agreed to this. I would like to add that decision has not come easy for m,y friend.They are in court in January to get this all sorted out, I believe its called a discharge, if its called something else apoligies..
    My question is this, does a discharge include that the child will have no claim to any inheritance in the future? Or does my friend need to ask for this as a special condition?
    Any advise or even previous experience would be greatfull.

    P.


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    #2
    killwill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    Well giving up rights to your flesh and blood is just cold. He is taking the easy way out. I believe he should be doing everything possible to get on with the mother and her family for the of his child. Maybe I'm just old fashioned???


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    #3
    patrick2007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭patrick2007


    Without giving too much detail my friend has not taken this decision lightly at all. The mother of this child has made it quite clear by her and her families actions that they do not want my friend to have anything to do with the child. My friend and his family have put up with some of the most unbelieveable behaviour in this regard.
    Believe me when I say that my friend has jumped thru so many hoops to get visitation rights etc. that I dont know how he did it to be honest.
    Again I dont want to give too much away but you need to remember that this woman said she had a miscarriage in the hope that my friend would disappear... I suppose.
    It got to the stage where this situation was tearing his own family apart i.e. by constant court dates, solicitors letters, extremely difficult visitations, by this I mean the baby always being asleep, the baby being kept in the buggy with covers practially from head to toe, my friend did try to talk to the mother about why the baby was always asleep and was met by silence all the time.


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    #4
    silja
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭silja


    By giving up his parental rights, he severs all legal connection to the child, so will not be obligated to pay child support etc, and the child will not be entitled to a share of his estate later. Presumably the husband of the mother will then adopt the child legally, thus making him the legal father of the child.


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    #5
    Carrigart Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Carrigart Exile


    I would advise your friend to 'write a letter' to his child and keep it somewhere safe to produce 20 years from now when that child appears on his doorstep


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    #6
    TequilaMockingBird
    Registered Users Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭TequilaMockingBird


    Babies sleep. Alot. Should the child have been woken for these visitations?!

    Imo, if the father is willing to give up his child so completely then he should do so now, for the sake of the child, and please God, the child can have a decent male role model in their life.

    Sorry for going a little off topic.


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    #7
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    silja wrote: »
    the child will not be entitled to a share of his estate later.
    I would be very surprised if any decision made by the father affects the child's entitlements. Whatever about the father giving up his rights, who says that the child is choosing to give up his/her rights? Is there any legal basis for the child losing inheritance rights or other rights in this way?


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    #8
    Kildrought
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭Kildrought


    my friend has decided to give up his rights to the child
    I'm a bit confused here... the parents in question weren't married (to each other at any rate), so the only person who has legal guardianship is the mother (I'm assuming he has not applied for it).

    So what 'rights' does he believe he is 'giving up'?


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    #9
    Carrigart Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Carrigart Exile


    Kildrought wrote: »
    I'm a bit confused here... the parents in question weren't married (to each other at any rate), so the only person who has legal guardianship is the mother (I'm assuming he has not applied for it).

    So what 'rights' does he believe he is 'giving up'?

    well given teh fact he had a DNA test done it would sound like it has gone down a considerable road; its a terrible indictment on society that this mother can behave in such a way that effectively bars a father from his child yet no action is taken. If she kept her child from attending school she would eventually be jailed, but it appears she can act with impunity with regard to one of the child's key relationships.


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    #10
    Kildrought
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭Kildrought


    Carrigart Exile, interesting though that may be - it doesn't really answer the question - what 'rights' does this man believe he is 'giving up'?


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    #11
    Ph3n0m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ph3n0m


    Aye, speaking as a non-married, single father - you have no rights when it boils down it. Unless the parents are married to each other, then custody/guardianship/right to the child go to the mother automatically.

    The father would need to go to court to get rights/access to the child


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    #12
    *Page*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭*Page*


    I'm very confused...

    Why is he taking it out on his child?

    Why give up his only hope to have a say in his childs life!!!

    the mother is probably very bitter but the fact your friend gets to be in the same room as the child is great lots of fathers dont get this far.

    Baby's do sleep alot and the mother might be putting the baby down intentinaly but soon enough that baby will be a toddler then a child then a teenager...

    Give your friend a slap for me and tell him to grow a set and be a part of the childs life.

    I also think that if you give up your rights your child is still intiltled to in heritance and also i think if he's doing it to get out of paying up i think he may still have to. but then again i am no solicitor or judge so dont take my ideas on maintanince and rights to heart!


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    #13
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Is the mother still married to her husband? If so the husband has full paternal rights and responsibilities to the child. How can your friend give up rights unless he was granted them in the first place by the mother?

    Babies sleep alot. Complaining that the baby is asleep when he visits is pure selfishness.

    Your story sounds fishy.


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    #14
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    killwill wrote: »
    Well giving up rights to your flesh and blood is just cold. He is taking the easy way out. I believe he should be doing everything possible to get on with the mother and her family for the of his child. Maybe I'm just old fashioned???
    I assume you would say the same of mothers who have abortions or give up their children for adoption, or are you saying this only of fathers?

    As to the original question, some countries do have an option to vacate paternity, but as far as I know this is not technically possible in Ireland. A discharge can only take place once the child has reached 18 (23 if in full time education and never if handicapped) and any private agreement for same would not be recognized in Irish law. It's the same situation as with prenups in Ireland.

    However, if one was signed it would be considered in any future maintenance, inheritance, guardianship, access or custody disputes as a mitigating factor.

    I can empathize the father's situation however. Some fathers simply don't want to be fathers and had they been women would have taken a flight to the UK. And some fathers even if they are willing to try can have their lives made a living Hell by the mothers to the point of fearing for their own health.


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    #15
    themadchef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    People mature, babies grow up...quickly! My adivce would be to seek legal guardianship. Surely as D.N.A proves he's the father he must have some part to play in the babies future?

    Fight, fight, fight, if it's truly what your friend wants.


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    #16
    Ph3n0m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ph3n0m


    themadchef wrote: »
    Surely as D.N.A proves he's the father he must have some part to play in the babies future?

    Do you mean from a legal standpoint - then the answer is still no. However if he wants to be part of the baby's life, he has to fight for it - legal or joint gaurdianship, visitation rights, maintenance, etc

    All of this can be doing by contacting the people in my sig


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    #17
    Quality
    Registered Users Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    That poor child, Imagining growing up knowing that your biological father did not want anything to do with you. That your father made a concious decision to cut himself out of your life.

    In this day and age there is no excuse. He should be ashamed of himself.

    Going ahead with this is a life time decision. In 5, 10, 15 years time is he going to feel like he has made the biggest mistake of his life?


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    #18
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Again I'd have to ask people like Quality or killwill, whether they would say the same of mothers who choose to have abortions or put their children up for adoption or if men need to follow a higher moral standard than women.

    People are not salmon. There is ultimately no obligation for people to literally destroy their lives because they have become pregnant or had a child. That's why we have the "woman's right to choose" after all (including adoption). The man discussed in this thread is in a situation whereby his life is being made a misery and will continue to be made one - one could hardly damn him if he did finally give up the ghost.

    However, this is Ireland and he can't actually discharge himself, even if he has the mother's consent. Were he and she to sign anything, all it would mean is that it would mitigate in terms of awarding access, maintenance and the like - it would not prevent any of those things. It is also advisable that he speak with a solicitor on this as it is also possible that he would essentially give up his rights but still be liable. Finally inheritance would probably not be affected as the child will not have signed anything and could sue on that basis.


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    #19
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    There's sleeping, and then there's "sleeping", the latter being that the child is awake, but the father is denied access, with the "sleeping" an excuse to bar the father the chance to see his child.
    patrick2007 wrote:
    constant court dates, solicitors letters, extremely difficult visitations
    For the people who thinks that the father is giving up without a fight: the father cannot get access, or the baby is "asleep" when he comes over. Under current law, he'd have to pay the mother money, but after a long fight, he's come to realize he'll get nothing out of it.

    And for the "rights" he is giving up, it's the right to be the babys' father.


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    #20
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    The Corinthian wrote: »

    People are not salmon. There is ultimately no obligation for people to literally destroy their lives because they have become pregnant or had a child. That's why we have the "woman's right to choose" after all (including adoption). The man discussed in this thread is in a situation whereby his life is being made a misery and will continue to be made one - one could hardly damn him if he did finally give up the ghost.

    .

    I had never considered suicide as an option for walking, and one open to mothers and fathers.


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    #21
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Sometimes the relationship/interaction between the parents of a child be come so antagonistic and stressful that one of them decides to cut the other out of their life due to the mental and emotional stress involved.

    In this case the loser is everyone, both parents and the child suffer, which make it truly unfortunate when parents are unrealistic and unreasonable about co parenting and access.


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    #22
    Quality
    Registered Users Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    This is not an argument on abortion or adoption, this is an argument based on a child.

    This man is considering cutting all ties from his flesh and blood. HELLO PEOPLE!!! Where are the family values gone in this country, I am sick to death of men not taking there responsibility when it comes to their children.

    What sort of MAN gives up the right to his child? We are living in the Naughtys, Life isnt meant to be easy!!! You have to fight for everything you get.


    Maybe this child is better off without this sort of father.


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    #23
    Ph3n0m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭Ph3n0m


    sick to death of "some" men, I hope - not all of us ride off into the sunset


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    #24
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Honestly it sounds more like in this case that the mother and her husband and thier families are squeezing him out of the picture so that they can play happy families and pretend that the break in the relationship never happened never mind that her husband is not the father of her child.


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    #25
    Quality
    Registered Users Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    Ph3n0m wrote: »
    sick to death of "some" men, I hope - not all of us ride off into the sunset


    My apologies.


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    #26
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Quality wrote: »
    This man is considering cutting all ties from his flesh and blood. HELLO PEOPLE!!! Where are the family values gone in this country, I am sick to death of men not taking there responsibility when it comes to their children.
    And what of women "not taking there responsibility when it comes to their children" because they put them up for adoption or abort them? It that an OK form of rejection?

    You don't think you might be applying a couple of double standards there?


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    #27
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    Quality wrote: »
    I am sick to death of men not taking there responsibility when it comes to their children.

    Should he take on board the "responsibility" of paying maintenance but never being allowed to see his own child? Should he really pay for the upkeep of a child who will be a stranger to him? The mother of this child in this instance is bang out of order.

    Frankly, I'm sick to death of unmarried mothers* who treat their children's fathers like this.





    *I'm an unmarried mother myself, just before I get accused of having a problem with single mothers.


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    #28
    Quality
    Registered Users Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭Quality


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    And what of women "not taking there responsibility when it comes to their children" because they put them up for adoption or abort them? It that an OK form of rejection?

    You don't think you might be applying a couple of double standards there?


    As I said in my earlier comment which you edited. "this is not a discussion on abortion or adoption." This is about this thread which in fact is about a young child. The fact that a father feels compelled to give up the right to his child.



    If you would like my comments on abortion and adoption please make new post, I would be more than happy to contribute my personal feelings on the matter....


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    #29
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Quality wrote: »
    As I said in my earlier comment which you edited. "this is not a discussion on abortion or adoption." This is about this thread which in fact is about a young child. The fact that a father feels compelled to give up the right to his child.
    To which I asked you whether you would say the same of a mother who did the same (i.e. adoption / abortion).

    After all, you made a pretty strong accusation of the father in question, so it's only fair that your reasoning is tested.

    So would you like to respond, or am I to take it that you come from the "do as I say, don't do as I do" school of child rights?


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    #30
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    embee wrote: »
    Should he take on board the "responsibility" of paying maintenance but never being allowed to see his own child? Should he really pay for the upkeep of a child who will be a stranger to him? The mother of this child in this instance is bang out of order.

    problem with single mothers.

    Can you love and provide in absence or is it conditional upon your time allotments? What - would you suggest an hourly rate?


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    #31
    *Page*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭*Page*


    embee wrote: »
    Should he take on board the "responsibility" of paying maintenance but never being allowed to see his own child? Should he really pay for the upkeep of a child who will be a stranger to him? The mother of this child in this instance is bang out of order.

    Frankly, I'm sick to death of unmarried mothers* who treat their children's fathers like this.





    *I'm an unmarried mother myself, just before I get accused of having a problem with single mothers.



    i totally agree with you

    I'm an unmarried mother myself and the things i have to do so i dont get tarred with that brush it so frustrating...

    I have a huge issue with a certain breed of single parents(both fathers and mothers), i really wish people would one their eyes and see the child in the middle...


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