Swords-Dublin Express Bus Service

Wishbone Ash

A new all-day, two-way express private bus service from Swords to Dublin city centre is scheduled to come into operation tomorrow (Monday 19th November).

The service will become one of the first public transport service operated by a private company to use the Dublin Port Tunnel.

The operators say this will mean it will take just 35 minutes to get commuters from Swords to the city centre. A one-way fare will cost €3.

The Swords Express will offer a total of 56 services per day, with peak time services operating every 15-minutes in both directions.

It will operate without the benefit of State subsidies.


Swords to City Centre

Pavilions Shopping Centre (Dublin Street, outside Penney’s),
Dublin Road (opposite Statoil Garage),
Pinnock Hill (South of roundabout),
Swords Bypass (opposite Texaco Garage),
National Show Centre,
Sean O’Casey Bridge (53X stop, opposite Jury’s Inn),
George’s Quay (outside Tara St. Station, 90 stop),

Monday to Friday

Departing Pavilions Shopping Centre (outside Penney’s)

06.34 07.06 07.37 07.53 08.09 08.24 08.56

09.12 09.43 09.59 10.30 11.33 12.05 12.52

13.39 14.11 14.58 15.30 16.33 16.48 17.04

17.20 17.51 18.07 18.23 18.39 19.10 19.42

Saturday, Sunday & Bank Holidays

Departing Pavilions Shopping Centre (outside Penney’s)

08.00 09.00 10.00 11.00 12.00 13.00 14.0015.00 16.00 17.00 18.00

City Centre to Swords

Eden Quay (outside The Laughter Lounge),
IFSC (outside IFSC House),
North Wall Quay (beside PWC car park),
Point Depot, East Wall Road, Airport Roundabout,
Swords Bypass (near Texaco Garage),
Pinnock Hill Roundabout (north of roundabout),
Malahide Roundabout,
Pavilions Shopping Centre (Malahide Road),

Monday to Friday

Departing Eden Quay

07.10 07.42 08.12 08.29 08.44 09.00 09.32

09.48 10.20 10.35 11.06 12.09 12.41 13.28

14.15 14.47 15.24 16.06 17.09 17.26 17.40

17.56 18.27 18.43 18.59 19.15 19.46 20.18

Saturday, Sunday & Bank Holidays

Departing Eden Quay

08.36 09.36 10.36 11.36 12.36 13.36 14.36

15.36 16.36 17.36 18.36

http://www.swordsexpress.com/

MrVostro

So now you need a bus and rail commuter ticket AND another €3 each way.
I dont think this will work unless its integrated with current commuter tickets and they extend the range to swords manor, applewood etc.
Sure you can already get the 142 from near the pavillions. No bus after 20:18 either.

Wishbone Ash

MrVostro wrote: »

So now you need a bus and rail commuter ticket AND another €3 each way

Are you being forced to travel on this new service?

MrVostro wrote:

Sure you can already get the 142 from near the pavillions

Not at the moment!

MrVostro wrote:

No bus after 20:18 either.

Presumably it's is a private profit making venture - not a community service. Running buses after 20.18 may not be profitable.

(PS - I've no connection with this new service. I don't know who is operating it. I posted the thread for informative purposes)

trellheim

It will operate without the benefit of State subsidies.

Not allowing other companies to operate on the route is a "subsidy" IMHO

MiniD

This is the route which prevented the 41X buses traveling through the port tunnel, and blocked the introduction of new all day, high frequency, low floor Dublin Bus route 141, from Swords to Rathmines.

While I welcome the introduction of this express service, it shouldn't be at the expense of passengers in Swords, Santry, Whitehall, Drumcondra and Rathmines, by depriving them of a frequent, affordable bus service.

The fare of €3 seems a bit steep. The Dart fare to Malahide doesn't cost that much.

Heart

If you take the 41X (not thru the tunnel) its 2.30, so 3euro probably isn't too steep for a direct route.

I still don't understand how this route can block the 141, crazy!

H

mickoneill30

MrVostro wrote: »

So now you need a bus and rail commuter ticket AND another €3 each way.
I dont think this will work unless its integrated with current commuter tickets and they extend the range to swords manor, applewood etc.
Sure you can already get the 142 from near the pavillions. No bus after 20:18 either.

As somebody who frequently spends 1hr and more on the bus on the way home from work I'll be happy to pay them the extra €1 if they can get me home in about half an hour. Most peoples time is worth more than €1 per 30 mins.

The current 41Xs from Rivervalley have been full to the brim after 3 or 4 stops for the last 6 months. I'm in Boroimhe and I can never get on that bus in Boroimhe or Rivervalley. It's normally full before C&Ts. I've ended up walking down to CBS every day (which means it takes me about 30 mins from leaving my house before the I pass the stop that is meant to be served by the 41X. If it means I can just go out to the stop at the Texaco and get on that'll save me half an hour in bed.

mickoneill30

MiniD wrote: »

This is the route which prevented the 41X buses traveling through the port tunnel, and blocked the introduction of new all day, high frequency, low floor Dublin Bus route 141, from Swords to Rathmines.

It wasn't the bus company fault. It was the idiots at the DOT. They can't do two things at one time (they might have to go out on strike if they did). Well at least the minister got a pay rise (I think) as he's doing such a good job.

MiniD wrote: »

The fare of €3 seems a bit steep. The Dart fare to Malahide doesn't cost that much.

Which is great if you live in Malahide. Not so great if you live in Swords.

markf909

It makes no sense that an express coach service can hold up a DB route?

That sounds like the 16A and the 41's that serve the airport should be stopped because of Aircoach

John R

markf909 wrote: »

It makes no sense that an express coach service can hold up a DB route?

That sounds like the 16A and the 41's that serve the airport should be stopped because of Aircoach

They probably would have been if they hadn't been running before Aircoach.

Same goes for the Airlink service, if it hadn't already been running for 20 years+ before Aircoach there is no way the DOT would have given DB permission to run it and Aircoach would have free reign to charge what they like and run as crap a service as they like off peak. Just look at the rubbish service they provide between 12am-6am where they have successfully stopped any competition from DB and anyone else.

John R

Heart wrote: »

If you take the 41X (not thru the tunnel) its 2.30, so 3euro probably isn't too steep for a direct route.

€1.70 will suffice for a single trip on the 41X as long as you don't insist on paying cash.


I have no doubt that €3 is a reasonable fare for Swordsexpress to make a profit and if you happen to be someone who is close enough at both ends of the route for it alone to be convenient then €30 for a weeks commute will be acceptable if it cuts your travelling time in half.

Unfortunately for the majority of people that travel Swords-City daily that start from farther afield this is not the case and to avail of this express service they will need to shell out another €30 as well as their current commuting fares.


To put the €30 per week into context, if Dublin Bus were operating this service by using the annual bus only taxsaver the weekly commute could be as little as €7.90 and that would include any extra bus travel around the city including Nitelink or just regular bus services in the evenings after Swordsexpress are finished.

The simple truth is that the expansion of more unconnected and unregulated bus operations gives a bad deal and worse service for the overwhwelming majority of public transport users in Dublin.

We need a governing authority with the power to enforce service levels, fare parity, universal acceptance of commuter and leisure tickets, standards of bus equipment and information provision.

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

Just look at the rubbish service they provide between 12am-6am

There are 21 departures to the city centre between 12 midnight and 6am (between the Ballsbridge and Leopardstown routes) - hardly what could be called 'rubbish'.

John R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There are 21 departures to the city centre between 12 midnight and 6am (between the Ballsbridge and Leopardstown routes) - hardly what could be called 'rubbish'.

Fine then midnight to 4am. :rolleyes:

The POINT is that after 11.45 when the last DB service has gone there can be hundreds of people at the Airport from late arrivals all trying to cram on one 45 seat Aircoach bus every 1/2 hour. On busy nights most end up having to get taxis or wait for multiple Aircoach services to come.

Mind you at that time of night 4 people in a taxi would be much cheaper than Aircoach anyway.

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

The POINT is that after 11.45 when the last DB service has gone there can be hundreds of people at the Airport from late arrivals all trying to cram on one 45 seat Aircoach bus every 1/2 hour. On busy nights most end up having to get taxis or wait for multiple Aircoach services to come.

That may happen occasionally but demand is usually minimal in the early hours.

John R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That may happen occasionally but demand is usually minimal in the early hours.

From 2am to 6am yes but there are always a bunch of arriving flights (scheduled and late arrivals) 23.00-00.30 that are too late for the last DB departures for the city and this is when there is always a mad scramble for the inadequate Aircoach offering.

I have been at the airport past midnight dozens of times over the last few years and this is a regular occourence.

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

I have been at the airport past midnight dozens of times over the last few years and this is a regular occourence.

And so have I!

John R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

And so have I!

If you are one of the people I have knocked over running down that endless bloody portakabin over the last year or so then I do apologise profusely.

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

If you are one of the people I have knocked over running down that endless bloody portakabin over the last year or so then I do apologise profusely.

No - PM sent!

RadioCity

I see RTE News gave the website for this service a plug, but no mention of the websites of Dublin Bus or Aer Lingus in their transport news section and not a dickiebird about the 24 hour Belfast-Dublin service Bus Eireann starting.

Am I just being a bit cynical?:)

Wishbone Ash

RadioCity wrote: »

I see RTE News gave the website for this service a plug, but no mention of the websites of Dublin Bus or Aer Lingus in their transport news section and not a dickiebird about the 24 hour Belfast-Dublin service Bus Eireann starting.

Am I just being a bit cynical?:)

Presumably BE PR department didn't send a press release to RTE.

OTK

Best of luck to Antoin with this service.

Rashers72

So did anyone get this service this morning? Through no fault of their own, I'd say they will have done well to make it into town in 35 mins. Traffic sounded mental at M1/M50/port Tunnel. The trains were just as bad!
Best of luck to them!

wayne2107

Buses were making good time in to the city. The coaches can remain in the outside along the M1 right in to the tunnell itself so not much of a delay. 35-40 mins were trip times today. For anyone intrested swordsexpress are using white vanhool coaches with the swordsexpress logo on them. I think these are the same coaches that were sitting in eirbuses yard in ballycoolin the last few months...

Wishbone Ash

wayne2107 wrote: »

The coaches can remain in the outside along the M1 right in to the tunnell itself

Not legally!

Legally, a bus may not be driven on the rightmost lane of a motorway.

The bus must legally remain on the left lane of the M1. Near the approach to the Port Tunnel, the left lane becomes the centre lane and then the centre-right lane which becomes the left lane again at the tunnel entrance.

The Port Tunnel is a motorway and the bus must remain on the left while in it.

antoinolachtnai

Thanks for the review wayne2107. It certainly did go to 40 minutes at one stage but most of the day we were less than that (and sometimes a good bit less). The return to Swords takes less time than the leg towards the city. Thanks for wishing me luck OTK!

The Swordsman

Antoin.

Why do these buses only go as far as Tara Street Dart Station?

It seems to me that you would get more customers if you went further southside.

This route is not really of much benefit to people working in the Stephens Green area or the Mount Street and Baggot Street areas never mind further afield.

maxheadroom

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Not legally!

Legally, a bus may not be driven on the rightmost lane of a motorway.

The bus must legally remain on the left lane of the M1. Near the approach to the Port Tunnel, the left lane becomes the centre lane and then the centre-right lane which becomes the left lane again at the tunnel entrance.

The Port Tunnel is a motorway and the bus must remain on the left while in it.

Not according to the rules of the road (page 122 of the pdf):

ROTR wrote:

You must not use the lane nearest the central median (lane 2 or lane 3, depending on the motorway width) if you are driving:

• a goods vehicle with a design gross vehicle weight of more than 3,500 kilograms,
• a passenger vehicle with seating for more than 8 passengers (aside from the driver), or
• a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan.

You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of a blockage ahead. You may also use it if you are at a location on a motorway where a speed limit of 80km/h or less applies.

Victor

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

MrVostro wrote: »

Sure you can already get the 142 from near the pavillions.

Not at the moment!

You can if the driver gets lost! Again.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The bus must legally remain on the left lane of the M1. Near the approach to the Port Tunnel, the left lane becomes the centre lane and then the centre-right lane which becomes the left lane again at the tunnel entrance.

trellheim

Rules of the Road overridden by the Tunnel Byelaws.

http://www.dublinporttunnel.ie/hauliers/bye_laws.pdf [ s17 1 & 2 ]

jahalpin

John R wrote: »

We need a governing authority with the power to enforce service levels, fare parity, universal acceptance of commuter and leisure tickets, standards of bus equipment and information provision.

In order for that to work all the money from sales of tickets would have to go straight to the new governing authority and the money would have to be split equitably between the different providers. If the private operators were forced to accept the thousands of free travel passes issued by the state they would have be adequately compensated for this as well

John R

jahalpin wrote: »

In order for that to work all the money from sales of tickets would have to go straight to the new governing authority and the money would have to be split equitably between the different providers.

Yes and no.

It would be no doubt be the best situation for there to be a single farebox and a single identity for all bus services so that intending passengers need only concern themselves with which service is most convenient and not what name is printed on the side.

Chances of that happening under the current administration is non-existent though. Before it disappeared into the mire the DTA bill had been stripped of all powers to control non-cie bus operations so their intent not to regulate the bus market for the benefit of the user was clear as day.



It would also be possible for the operators to keep their single/return fare takings and have integrated tickets that are valid on all operators with each recieving a proportional share. This is done in many cities in the UK with each operator setting their own fares (single/return and multiple) and also participating in multi-operator and multi-mode tickets usually provided by the local authorities.

Under our CURRENT laws the government could force a single fare structure on all operators without the need for a central farebox. The next logical step would be to work out an equitable formula for distributing integrated fares and then make it a condition of operation that all bus operators accept a range of bus, bus-rail-tram tickets.

jahalpin wrote: »

If the private operators were forced to accept the thousands of free travel passes issued by the state they would have be adequately compensated for this as well

They already can get payments for accepting free travel passes and many operators do. I am sure that they also get much better and more accurate compensation than CIE do. Under the current scheme CIE get a lump sum that has no relation to the actual fare revenue lost by accepting the passes. I doubt many private operators would have signed up unless they could have gotten a fair recompense for hauling around all the OAPs, disabled, dole scroungers, junkies and various others who have fake, stolen or fraudulently obtained passes.

Not for one second would I criticise any operator for making sure they had fair recompense for accepting these passes, if senior CIE management were not puppets of goverment and the civil service they would have done the same years ago.

Maybe Antoin can enlighten us on what exactly is offered for accepting these passes?

AlekSmart

Indeed,jahalpin rather directly puts a finger on a rather nicely simmering little brew.

The current SE bumph appears not to mention the DSFA Free Travel Scheme but one can assume that in the fullness of time it will be accpeted by them.

However,unlike the CIE group companies the Private Operators really do need to ponder awhile over what terms are on offer from the Dept and compare it to what the potential useage of their services will actually be.

I`m guessing here but I rather suspect that the DSFA will be somewhat reluctant to shell out the Full €3 per journey tarriff to SA.
Eventually they will prob compromise on a figure based upon "Projections" of usage and it is these projections which need to be carefully considered.

The DSFA Free Travel scheme has always been one of the areas where the Republic has led the way in public transport but in the present Cowenesque era it may not last much longer simply because it remains one of the most shockingly unsupervised and fraud friendly pieces of work ever designed !

John R

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Not at the moment!

Was that a reference to the strike or has the 142 been re-routed again?

If not then the 142 does indeed pick-up/set-down on the old N1 at the stop just south of the Malahide Road roundabout.

Victor

AFAIK, the social welfare scheme offers a fixed annual fee only.

John R

AlekSmart wrote: »

The DSFA Free Travel scheme has always been one of the areas where the Republic has led the way in public transport but in the present Cowenesque era it may not last much longer

You mean they might do away with the legacy of Saint Charlie? :eek:

Wishbone Ash

John R wrote: »

Was that a reference to the strike or has the 142 been re-routed again?

If not then the 142 does indeed pick-up/set-down on the old N1 at the stop just south of the Malahide Road roundabout.

It was in relation to the strike.

maxheadroom wrote:

You may also use it if you are at a location on a motorway where a speed limit of 80km/h or less applies.

Thanks for that - I wasn't aware of that little nugget of info!

antoinolachtnai

Social welfare passes - basically, they pay two-thirds, on the basis of a survey done now and again.

We're accepting the pass at the moment even though we haven't all the forms back with SW. Accepting the pass isn't really about the money, it's about integrating with and serving the community. (I had to explain this to the Social Welfare man, I don't think he believed me.)

There is a bit of bureaucracy involved, but it's not unreasonable.

Please all try out the new service! We can arrange a bit of a tour on Saturday at 11am, starting in the city centre if anybody is interested.

John R

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Please all try out the new service!

How about a discount for boards.ie members.

antoinolachtnai

Discounts! Ah stop. What does this look like?

Seriously though, the problem with discounts is the administration. Managing vouchers and loads of different sorts of tickets is a real burden on drivers and bookkeepers. It's actually quite expensive to do when you work it all out.

My priority is to do some sort of affiliation deal with Swords based businesses and community groups.

Anyone who wants to meet at Eden Quay on Saturday at 11.30am for a spot of transport tourism can travel for free though. But you will probably have to pay for your own lunch!

Best,

Antoin.

antoinolachtnai

The Swords Express Day Out, tomorrow, Saturday, if anybody is interested.

http://www.eire.com/2007/11/22/swords-express-day-out/

Victor

So a few of us went along today and met Antoin and travelled to Swords - he even bought lunch (your loss!), so I suppose I have to give him a write up.

Reasonably prompt service out and back. A tiny bit of congestion on North Wall Quay and in Swords Village, but the journey out was 30-something minutes and only 27 minutes on the way back into town. It was quiet on the way out, but reasonable numbers on the way back into town, with more boarding at Eden Quay when I got back to town.

Everything was fairly straightforward - although having the cash machine on the right hand side as I entered the bus was novel. One passenger that boarded obviously hadn't used the service before, as she was handing hte money to the driver, but had the correct change and didn't need to ask questions, so the leafleting and other marketing seems to be getting through.

Customer seemed genuinely happy with the new service

Wishbone Ash

Antoin - Good luck with the new service.

Just wondering - how many buses are required to fufill the timetable requirements?

Victor wrote: »

So a few of us went along today and met Antoin and travelled to Swords

I must do my own little undercover travel during the week!

Metrobest

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Antoin - Good luck with the new service.

Just wondering - how many buses are required to fufill the timetable requirements?


I must do my own little undercover travel during the week!

Best of luck with this new service! I really hope you can prove to the public that private buses can do a better job than the Dublin Bus monopoly.

Victor

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just wondering - how many buses are required to fufill the timetable requirements?

Two at the weekend and I think he said 4 during the week.

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote: »

Two at the weekend and I think he said 4 during the week.

Thanks Victor.

D'Peoples Voice

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A new all-day, two-way express private bus service from Swords to Dublin city centre is scheduled to come into operation tomorrow (Monday 19th November).

Does anyone know if they were granted a licence under Section 7 of the Road Transport Act 1932 and if they will be selling annual tickets as a result?

http://www.revenue.ie/pdf/finbil2004p.pdf

Subsection (1) shall not apply[tax relief is applicable] to expense incurred by the body corporate in or in connection with the provision for a director or employee of a monthly or annual bus or railway pass issued by or on behalf of one or more approved transport providers for travel on either or both bus and railway.
(b) In this subsection- ‘approved transport provider’ means—

(a) Coras Iompair Eireann or any of its subsidiaries

(b) a holder of a passenger licence granted under section 7 of the
Road Transport Act 1932

(c) a person who provides a passenger transport service under an arrangement entered into with Coras Iompair Eireann in accordance with section 13(1) of the Transport Act 1950,

(d) the Railway Procurement Agency or any of its subsidiaries,

(e) a person who has entered into an arrangement with the Railway Procurement Agency, in accordance with section 43(6) of the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act 2001 to operate a railway;

John R

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Does anyone know if they were granted a licence under Section 7 of the Road Transport Act 1932

Yes.

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

and if they will be selling annual tickets as a result?

Offering annual (or monthly) tickets is one thing, offering them through a scheme to company employees in order to qualify for the tax relief is something else.

No private operator so far has offered tickets under the tax refund scheme, presumably because of the extra time and expense that setting it up and administering it costs.

It just highlights the stupidity of having multiple operators without any central system for ensuring the best service and value for passengers.

It also highlights the stupidity of having needlessly complex tax rebate arrangements. If they really wanted to give people the benefit then they could easily just refund the operators directly for all annual tickets sold, it's not as if anyone bar PAYE workers would be buying annual commuter tickets anyway.

antoinolachtnai

It is not correct to say that no private operator so far has offered tickets under the tax refund scheme.

I agree with the rest of your comments though.

Wishbone Ash

antoin - was this thread part of your research prior to establishing the service?

John R

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It is not correct to say that no private operator so far has offered tickets under the tax refund scheme.

Go on then... I do love to be proved wrong.

antoinolachtnai

Mortons and Matthews I believe, according to telephone conversations I had last week with reliable sources.