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Slash foreign aid contribution
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Quite a lot actually. Over 1% of over 20's in this country are millionaires (not including property). Car ownership is increasing at a rate of 5% per annum. Income per capita is above that of the EU 15. In other words, Irish people have money to burn.How many in Ireland actually earn money when expenses are taken out, like food, bills, mortgage etc etc..
Unemployment has held relatively steady at 4.3% over the last few years. That's lower than the US, Austria, Australia, The Netherlands, Sweden, Canada and Germany, to name but a few.How many people work in Ieland?
Of course there are problems, but throwing money at them is going to solve them; case in point, the health service.There are serious problems here in Ireland and I'm sick to the teeth hearing about cutbacks everywhere.
If people want to make contributions to charities that is their business. What concern is it of yours how people spend their own money?Ireland is simply being suckered into all this foreign aid by the Bono's, Geldof's GOAL's, Concern's and Clinton's of this world.
Seriously, where are you getting this from? In 2006, Oxfam Ireland (for example) reported a LOSS of over €500,000.Its all big big business.
That is your opinion and nothing more.It's not IMO genuine and all it's doing is causing trouble in the third world.
Yes, there are homeless people in this country, but you are being very naive if you think they are all on the streets simply because they ran out of money. Besides, there are charities, such as Focus, doing excellent work to help genuine homeless people.There are fo starters hundreds of hmeless people on our island.
So, it's ok for South Africa and India to give money as aid, but it's wrong for Ireland to do so? Why is that?And why can't South Africa give some of its vast fortunes to eradicate poverty for its neighbors. Why can't India set aside some of its massive wealth to alleviating 'poverty' on its land etc etc0 -
Of course western politicians play a very cynical game on this. On the one hand they want to be popular with our farmers and subsidise them. On the other they give aid to the third world.
Ah the ould chestnut about free agricultural trade and no subsidies for western farmers will help all the poor African, South American subsistence farmers. More like help the rich massive ranchers and massive farmers in these regions. The great Free World Trade myth and the fact it really only benefits the rich who just move source of manufacturing/production.In Swaziland the king uses public money to build vast palaces. Yet there is no free press as there is in ireland to criticise him
I thought it was for his wives ?
Does he still get a new one every year?The problem here is that Irish people are not getting value for money. Aid must be an investment with returns. The increased spend mustn't be to continually plug the budgets of countries where there is no real reform of the political system.
Thought you were talking about our health service here for a minute :rolleyes:I am not allowed discuss …
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Ah the ould chestnut about free agricultural trade and no subsidies for western farmers will help all the poor African, South American subsistence farmers. More like help the rich massive ranchers and massive farmers in these regions. The great Free World Trade myth and the fact it really only benefits the rich who just move source of manufacturing/production.
Yes that old one that the ability to trade and make money helps people more then preventing them trading. Yes some rich people would get richer but so would a lot of poor people. If you have some evidence other then "Economists have shown for over 200 years that we should do it and no one has so obviously we should not" as to why free trade is a bad idea?0 -
Quite a lot actually. Over 1% of over 20's in this country are millionaires (not including property). Car ownership is increasing at a rate of 5% per annum. Income per capita is above that of the EU 15. In other words, Irish people have money to burn.
Unemployment has held relatively steady at 4.3% over the last few years. That's lower than the US, Austria, Australia, The Netherlands, Sweden, Canada and Germany, to name but a few.
Of course there are problems, but throwing money at them is going to solve them; case in point, the health service.
If people want to make contributions to charities that is their business. What concern is it of yours how people spend their own money?
Seriously, where are you getting this from? In 2006, Oxfam Ireland (for example) reported a LOSS of over €500,000.
That is your opinion and nothing more.
Yes, there are homeless people in this country, but you are being very naive if you think they are all on the streets simply because they ran out of money. Besides, there are charities, such as Focus, doing excellent work to help genuine homeless people.
So, it's ok for South Africa and India to give money as aid, but it's wrong for Ireland to do so? Why is that?
So tax the bloody rich then if that's the case. Why should those who are NOT making money have their hard earned few bob squandered to Africa.
Let the so called millionaires and Bono's give their tax money.
I couldn't care what people do wIth their own personal money. I do care however that my money, MINE, is being squandered for Africa. These people who are urging increased aid all time aren't the ones who have to suffer.
They are great at throwng around other peoples money, not their own...
Again, personal contributions to charity is up to the individual, but lecturing and
harassing governments to part with the money of those not earning much is what's wrong......0 -
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I do and that's not really a fair comparison is it.
How many in Ireland actually earn money when
expenses are taken out, like food, bills, mortgage etc etc..
How many people work in Ieland?
There are serious problems here in Ireland and I'm
sick to the teeth hearing about cutbacks everywhere.
Ireland is simply being suckered into all this
foreign aid by the Bono's, Geldof's GOAL's, Concern's
and Clinton's of this world. Its all big big business.
It's not IMO genuine and all it's doing is causing
trouble in the third world. Think how far 800+ million
cold go i this country. There are fo starters hundreds of
hmeless people on our island. Woud that money or even
part of it not be better spent elsewhere??
And why can't South Africa give some of its
vast fortunes to eradicate poverty for its neighbors.
Why can't India set aside some of its massive wealth
to alleviating 'poverty' on its land etc etc
:eek: I think the key there is IMO. Your opinion is obviously informed by your experiences, you probably see homeless people on the streets every day. Can I guess that you haven't lived in any place with a lot of poor people? (I'd exclude safari trips etc)
Have you any justification or facts to back up your contention that "Its all big big business". Fair enough, there are several shameful examples of unscrupulous money wasting/stealing, but do you have any kind of report, newspaper article or experience suggesting that the entire sector is as broken and useless as you suggest? I'm asking in an agressive way, cos I'm a little offended by your contention, so maybe back it up or take it back.
I'm not asking you to feel guilty just 'cos you're rich or anything (but if you're interested http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php )- just less of the sweeping accusations about charities 'suckering' people and 'causing trouble' in the third world. If you want to be taken seriously, do the research before you get in the ring.0 -
Yes that old one that the ability to trade and make money helps people more then preventing them trading. Yes some rich people would get richer but so would a lot of poor people. If you have some evidence other then "Economists have shown for over 200 years that we should do it and no one has so obviously we should not" as to why free trade is a bad idea?
And will you be the one on here complaining when more rainforest is being chopped down in Brazil to make way for beef ranches to meet the needs of the EU citizens who will have sold out their own farmers?
Trade is all well and good but have you ever wondered why the likes of George Soros is investing millions in Argentina land ?
Yes you will say Argentina is not third world but what is stop him from buying in some real third world nation given the right conditions?
Zimbabwe would be ideal if it didn't have it's current leader.
You could open all the world's markets up to Zimbabwian farmers in the morning, but I don't think that would help the countries farmers or people?
Oh wait the great government actually took the land off the farmers (yes they were mostly white) who did offer some employment and contributed to the country's economy/exports, and gave it to it's supporters who haven't a clue farming. It wasn't even given to those that had worked on the farms.
Now the land lies idle, badly used and the people are starving.
It's hard to farm when you are getting shot at, your land is full of mines or the corrupt government is stealing your land when they feel like it.
Sort out those messes before deciding to screw up productive argriculture in this part of the world.I am not allowed discuss …
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:eek: I think the key there is IMO. Your opinion is obviously informed by your experiences, you probably see homeless people on the streets every day. Can I guess that you haven't lived in any place with a lot of poor people? (I'd exclude safari trips etc)
Have you any justification or facts to back up your contention that "Its all big big business". Fair enough, there are several shameful examples of unscrupulous money wasting/stealing, but do you have any kind of report, newspaper article or experience suggesting that the entire sector is as broken and useless as you suggest? I'm asking in an agressive way, cos I'm a little offended by your contention, so maybe back it up or take it back.
I'm not asking you to feel guilty just 'cos you're rich or anything (but if you're interested http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php )- just less of the sweeping accusations about charities 'suckering' people and 'causing trouble' in the third world. If you want to be taken seriously, do the research before you get in the ring.
The whole world revolves around business. Crime is a business, poverty is big business, obesity is a business...this is not my opinion, it's fact.
Even the terrible things in this world are exploited by people.
It's what makes the world go around. Does anyone seriously believe
that these aid agencies are doing what they say the do purely
because they are angels of mercy? It's all business and egos.
Some are genuine like Mother Theresa, hope I spelt her name correct.
But I think it's a little ridiculous to hear all these so called
angels lecture us on Africa and they themselves are living very very
comfortable lives, earning plenty of money for their rantings.
All the CEO's of these agencies are being paid heavily to extract
money from the taxpayer. It's a ******* job to these people.
It's not that they are so brilliant or caring.
Did any of these CEO's do a thing in their own community?
I'd really like to hear about it, if so.....
Then you have the government ministers in charge of
writing blank cheques to the third world.
It doesn't bother him/her in the slightest as they will
earn massive money no matter how much of OTHER
peoples money they squander......
No doubt Africa needs help in certain parts. But to hear
the WEST continually lecture us about how bad off they are
is disgusting. Africa Is a massively powerful continet
that needs their people to sort out their problems.
Yes, help from the WEST is needed, but it's the arrogance
and power trippers of the WEST trying to take over and
dictate that's the problem.
You just have to look at the mass demonstrations in CHAD recently
which are calling for foreigners to F off, and still you have Dermot Ahern
pushing for Irish troops to deploy there..
The people of Chad don't want you, so piss off...
The funniest thing is that as poor and starving as these
people are, they still whip us when the Olympics come
around.......0 -
And will you be the one on here complaining when more rainforest is being chopped down in Brazil to make way for beef ranches to meet the needs of the EU citizens who will have sold out their own farmers?
Possibly I will be. Each hamburger should have a 2 euro health tax on it rather then the current subsidy they do have. Then you need to add a tax for the nitrus oxide and methane produced in making the burger. After that meats actual cost will be higher reducing the demand. What will happen to Europe's land if the farmers stop farming it? presumably it will become forested?
As I already said most of Africa's misery is caused by corruptionZimbabwe would be ideal if it didn't have it's current leader.0 -
Possibly I will be. Each hamburger should have a 2 euro health tax on it rather then the current subsidy they do have. Then you need to add a tax for the nitrus oxide and methane produced in making the burger. After that meats actual cost will be higher reducing the demand. What will happen to Europe's land if the farmers stop farming it? presumably it will become forested?
As I already said most of Africa's misery is caused by corruption
True Africa is a total mess and most of it because of corruption. I have said it in another thread that at this stage I think some countries are incapable of governing themselves. There is a combination of things responsible for this including tribal issues, ill conveived national boundaries, multinationals' greed and western world/superpower interference.
But saying all that the countries just replace one tin pot dictator with another an the cycle continues.
Giving aid or cancelling their debt is I think a non runner for lots of countries. There has to be some link between ellimination of corruption, full democracy and aid.
You cannot seriously give aid to Zimbabwe since it will end up in Mugabe's or his cronies pockets and then back to Swiss bank account.
But free trade often only benefits the people with the capital to invest not the poor who still do all the work. Another thing to be aware of is that some western chemical companies have offloaded banned pesticides, insecticdes into these markets and they are readily used to up productivity. The produce is sold back into the west and the people who pushed to have these substances banned in home markets end up ingesting them.
On local front, I think the most notable hypocrisy has to be Bono lecturing us how the country should contribute extra from national revenues to aid the third world, when he himself has benefitted from very low taxes as an artist and then moves some of his affairs to The Netherlands to avail of even more favourable tax regime.
Pay full tax like the rest of us and then he can lecture us all he wants, otherwise shut to **** up.I am not allowed discuss …
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This increase in aid, which will be about 300 million extra from what it is now has to come from somewhere, either taxes or else cutbacks so it is right to ask will we be getting value for money.
And it is our money after all not Bertie's money or Brian Cowens money or even Irish Aid's money but our money.
So I for one would like to see more transparancy and I would like to have a say where it goes and how it is spent. I may not be an expert on spending aid money, but i know that we should try to be bringing down regimes like the king of Swaziland and helping democracy and not paying for their healthcare while he builds himself a new palace. There is something fundamentally disgusting about people like the king of swaziland which we tolerate and turn a blind eye to.
Development has to be about mindsets as well as money and particularly the mindsets of third world leaders who come around with the begging bowl every so often but give us the two fingers when we tell them they should be more democratic and less corrupt.0 -
Did any of these CEO's do a thing in their own community?
I'd really like to hear about it, if so.....
Name one that isn't John O'Shea. Typically, these people aren't high-ego, they generally just get the job done quietly. And why do they have to do something in their own local community for you to respect them? Why are you giving out so much about someone that wants to do their own thing and not get in your way?
Even so, it's interesting that you'd like to hear about it. What media do you consume? Is it soundbite journalism? If so, you're unlikely to come across good news stories or even stories with no controversy. Like I said, this is the kind of information you have to seek out.Africa Is a massively powerful continet
that needs their people to sort out their problems.
Africa is the mother of all of us - there have been people living there for longer than anywhere else in the world. There's a strong culture there of community, arguable stronger than here and often a good understanding of the problems and the causes.
Everyone that's working in development would agree with you that it should be stakeholder led and not driven by opinions of people that live in ivory towers in the West. But that stereotype is just wrong. Irish Aid isn't distantly removed from the projects that they support, they send people to monitor and report - have you looked at their website? Have a read of this page - http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/about.asp
Give me some examplesYes, help from the WEST is needed, but it's the arrogance
and power trippers of the WEST trying to take over and
dictate that's the problem.
Irish Foreign Aid is very well respected throughout the world; it's untied for example, which means that it can be spent in the receiving country, thus boosting the target economy. For contrast, the biggest recipient of US Foreign Aid is Israel and it's tied, which means that most of it has to be spent on Defense.The funniest thing is that as poor and starving as these
people are, they still whip us when the Olympics come
around.......
Honestly mate, I don't think that's funny. I think that's a symbol of what people can achieve when the odds are stacked against them and the playing field is level. Unlike the current economic situation in the world.0 -
So tax the bloody rich then if that's the case. Why should those who are NOT making money have their hard earned few bob squandered to Africa.
Let the so called millionaires and Bono's give their tax money.
I couldn't care what people do wIth their own personal money. I do care however that my money, MINE, is being squandered for Africa. These people who are urging increased aid all time aren't the ones who have to suffer.
They are great at throwng around other peoples money, not their own...
Again, personal contributions to charity is up to the individual, but lecturing and
harassing governments to part with the money of those not earning much is what's wrong......
These people who are urging increased aid all the time aren't the ones who have to suffer, implying that you are? Honestly, if you don't earn too much, then you aren't getting taxed too much, and .7% of that? Doesn't sound like suffering to me, sounds like whinging.
I think if the government is completely squandering that 800 million and giving it straight to dictators then you have a right to complain, but from the facts so far it appears that the money is quite well handled in most cases, and does in fact reach the needy in Africa. You have every right to come on here and argue that Kim Il Yong is a great and benevolent leader and you have every right to moan about giving a few pennies to Africa, just don't expect not to get stick about it.0 -
Well does anyone agree that the aid is only keeping these people ticking over?
What needs to happen is fundamental root and branch change in sub-saharn Africa in terms of increased democracy before these people will really get out of poverty otherwise we will always be helping the victims of corrupt and unrepresentitive governments.
As it stands these countries seem to get poorer and poorer every year and more dependent on aid due to the corruption and mismanagment of those at the top.0 -
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As it stands these countries seem to get poorer and poorer every year and more dependent on aid due to the corruption and mismanagment of those at the top.
This is a persistent myth.
Here is one rebuttal, taken from hereOne measure of the quality of governance in over 150 countries is provided by Transparency International, an organization dedicated to strengthening civil society in the fight against government corruption. Transparency International produces an annual ranking of “corruption perceptions,” measuring the public’s view of the extent of corruption in a country.
In the 2005 rankings, Iceland scored as the least corrupt country, with the Scandinavian countries, New Zealand, and Singapore close behind. The US ranked seventeenth from the top, a not-so-glorious position for the world’s leading power. In general, the poorer the country, the lower the ranking: tied for last place are Chad and Bangladesh.
A bit of statistical analysis reveals further important patterns. First, Sub-Saharan African countries are less corrupt on average than countries at the same income level in other parts of the world. For example, Burkina Faso, Ghana, Mali, and Rwanda rank much higher than Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, and Vietnam. Yet the Asian countries’ economies have tended to grow much faster over the past generation. Corruption therefore cannot be the unique factor that holds Africa back. Africa’s problems have more to do with droughts, malaria, AIDS, and lack of infrastructure.
You can't just make a glib statement like 'poverty is due to corruption at the top' - the issue is deep. For example, it's probably easier for a corrupt regime to rule in a country where the citizens aren't connected to each other via the web and a free press. But that doesn't mean that the corruption caused the poverty.
But don't you trust Irish Aid, the topic of the thread, to have programmes in place to guard against the problem of corruption? Or would you criticise them if they spent more on administration to guarantee effectiveness?
You suggest "fundamental root and branch change in sub-saharan Africa in terms of increased democracy". How would that work? Have you thought it through?
Would you aim to improve the living standards, freedoms and educational opportunities of the ordinary African villager? Great idea, that's what plenty of charities are working on!!0 -
I agree they need to be very careful what they do with the money, but that a terrible excuse to reduce the amount of foreign aid we give
You think it's terrible to reduce the amount of money we give foreign dictators?
Multiply the amount we donate by the number of donor countries and by the number of years the donations have been going on. Obviously there will be variations in the amount donated by each country and over the years but the money donated to the Third World must now be in the trillions of dollars. And very little return to show for it.
I'm not in favour of abandoning starving Africans altogether. But I'd like my taxes spent more wisely.0 -
You think it's terrible to reduce the amount of money we give foreign dictators?
I'm not in favour of abandoning starving Africans altogether. But I'd like my taxes spent more wisely.
The breakdown for how it's spent is online. Any particular programmes you don't like?
The weird bastard child Vietnam aside, which of our partner countries are run by dictators, exactly?
Also, do you specifically suggest we give no aid (as distinct from money) to countries under dictatorship?0 -
An example of a basket case we give aid to...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/country_profiles/1069035.stm
Bad governance is at the root of much if not most under development in the third world. If we could get them or teach then to govern correctly then a lot of problems would be solved. Instead many of the governments are interested in staying in power and lining their pockets. If you don't put pressure on them to change, and lets be clear if the Soviet Union changed due to Western pressure then a small country in the developing world can also change, well then they will keep on the same track to nowhere.
The facts show that countries can be turned around through good governance and they can be brought down by bad ones, and we all know examples of that.0 -
You can't just make a glib statement like 'poverty is due to corruption at the top' - the issue is deep. For example, it's probably easier for a corrupt regime to rule in a country where the citizens aren't connected to each other via the web and a free press. But that doesn't mean that the corruption caused the poverty.
But don't you trust Irish Aid, the topic of the thread, to have programmes in place to guard against the problem of corruption? Or would you criticise them if they spent more on administration to guarantee effectiveness?
You suggest "fundamental root and branch change in sub-saharan Africa in terms of increased democracy". How would that work? Have you thought it through?
Would you aim to improve the living standards, freedoms and educational opportunities of the ordinary African villager? Great idea, that's what plenty of charities are working on!!
Yes I would of course...as shown in the link to the article above there is no free press in Swazliand. Would you like to live in a country where there is no free press and where our leaders could do what they want with our money. To put it another way it would be like Bertie Ahearn taking millions of tax payers money and building a palace for himself while people died due to poor healthcare systems. Can you not see the link here between the wealth and extravegance of the monarch and the grinding poverty of the people? It is so obvious that if you have an absolute monarch who doesnt give a toss about his people, then you will have a basket case of a country. It is exactly the same situation as pre-revolutionary France. Surely you agree the revolution was a good thing for the people and contributed to improved living standards for the majority, even if it took time?0 -
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The breakdown for how it's spent is online. Any particular programmes you don't like?
The weird bastard child Vietnam aside, which of our partner countries are run by dictators, exactly?
Also, do you specifically suggest we give no aid (as distinct from money) to countries under dictatorship?
Well, Uganda has had the same leader for the last 21 years...
Ethopia regurarly bombs its own people, shoots opposition protestors and has little press freedom..
Malawi is a basket case, just about democratic..
Swaziland has an absolute monarch...
Zimbabwe is a dictatorship..
who are the other partner countries?0 -
If we really do give a significant amount of aid to such a basket case, why isn't Swaziland on the list at http://www.irishaid.gov.ie/countries.asp ?
And yes good governance is important, of course.
For example, here's a snippet of the main Uganda page-Support to the PAF is conditional on the achievement of the prior actions and benchmarks which are jointly agreed between Government of Uganda and donors as part of the World Bank's Poverty Reduction Support Credit (PRSC), and can be withdrawn if the Government of Uganda does not meet its commitments. These actions and benchmarks cover the areas of economic management, financial accountability and governance as well as social sectors
I think that Irish Aid are good at what they do. And sadly, that's not a news story. If there's no controversy, no scandal, no embezzlement then it's not going to get coverage. If you want good news, you have to look for it, 'cause you won't find it in newspapers that often. Apparently it doesn't sell.
Overall, what's your position on the amount that Irish Aid have to spend and the way that they spend it? They should have more money, less, just the right amount?
They're reckless at spending it, mediocre or really rather good?0 -
Corruption is one of the problems. It's not the main problem. Asking Africans themselves, Afrobarometer even found that African people don't see it as the major problem, though it is one that cuts across more pressing issues.jmayo wrote:True Africa is a total mess and most of it because of corruption.
The main problem is exploitation within and by the global capitalist system. First it was the slave trade, then it was colonialism, now it's globalisation. Africa is the only continent that has gotten poorer. Why? Because rich countries have prised open their markets to exploitation by rich countries through bilateral strong-arming, the WTO, the EU, and through war. You say Africa's problem is the need to develop more liberal economies? Africa is the most liberalised continent in the world - all this has done is resulted in crashing commodity prices and the dumping of cheap rubbish we don't want which crowds out the development of indigenous business and industry. And what exports they do own and produce themselves are blocked out of rich country markets through insane import tariffs and hidden trade barriers like hygine EU standards. And all this is supposed to happen in a world where the IMF, World Bank and individual countries encourage developing countries to take on enormous debts to develop, yet the policies they are forced to adopt cause even further economic collapse and poverty among people. But jobs don't matter so much to those dying of AIDS, particularly women, who have no power in society - a major cause of AIDS transmission. Some of this is caused by internicine, regional and international conflicts, sometimes genocide, where rape is used as a military weapon by armies and militias with scant military supplies. So even if a generation of Africans forget the scars of the past, and the effects these have had on the social, political and cultural realities for African peoples, there are plenty more scars in the making. And how can a continent truly rescue itself without being able to hope?
I spend a year studing 'good governance' - good management by governments is needed. But 'good governance' is a neoliberal concept, in effect the extension of 'structural adjustment' policies which only deepened the continent's nightmare.
We're so concerned about where 'our money' goes, conveniently overlooking the fact that much if it is actually Africa's money, which those in rich countries (and their agents in Africa whom *they corrupted*) stole from them.
Don't believe me? The Swiss agreed that much of Sani Abacha's stolen billions should be *repatriated* to the people of Nigeria.
Africa is a rich continent. It's just that we're stealing the wealth.
And here's a little know story about anti-corruption efforts by a community in Uganda: one year it was discovered around 87% of government grants to primary schools were going missing - being siphoned off by local strongmen and politicians. The locals went to the Dept of Education, and told the local press. Together, they agreed to publish all money coming and going in the village hall and in all newspapers, naming and shaming corrupt individuals. The situation reversed: only 7% went missing. And in that environment, that's incredible.0 -
Democratically re-elected as recently as last year. That's not a dictatorship.Well, Uganda has had the same leader for the last 21 years...
That's not a dictatorship.Ethopia regurarly bombs its own people, shoots opposition protestors and has little press freedom..
And we don't give to them.Malawi is a basket case, just about democratic..
And we don't give to them.Swaziland has an absolute monarch...
And we don't give them... much.Zimbabwe is a dictatorship..
It might help for you to look up who they are before you list countries we don't give to.who are the other partner countries?0 -
The breakdown for how it's spent is online. Any particular programmes you don't like
The weird bastard child Vietnam aside, which of our partner countries are run by dictators, exactly?
Also, do you specifically suggest we give no aid (as distinct from money) to countries under dictatorship?
The site is a bit vague. One of the Project countries is one of the world's richest countries, South Africa. And Russia? Please. They can afford to restart the cold war, commit genocide in Chechnya and we are funding that. Not happy with supporting the regimes in Gaza and the West Bank, Zimbabwe and Ethiopia, who's "Peacekeeping" troops have been slaughtering the citizens of Mogadishu for the last week or so. And that's just at a quick glance.
Any aid given to a dictator can be easily appropriated and converted to cash.0 -
Democratically re-elected as recently as last year. That's not a dictatorship.
That's not a dictatorship.
And we don't give to them.
And we don't give to them.
And we don't give them... much.
It might help for you to look up who they are before you list countries we don't give to.
Yes you're being a little silly now so I think it's time for the grown-ups to leave.0 -
They're currently the 56th richest country in the world. 20% of them have HIV.The site is a bit vague. One of the Project countries is one of the world's richest countries, South Africa.
What makes you think we're giving them money? My next door neighbour is having his education and rent paid for him. He never sees the money. How would a similar move fund genocide?And Russia? Please. They can afford to restart the cold war, commit genocide in Chechnya and we are funding that.
Who says they're supporting the regimes?Not happy with supporting the regimes in Gaza and the West Bank, Zimbabwe and Ethiopia, who's "Peacekeeping" troops have been slaughtering the citizens of Mogadishu for the last week or so. And that's just at a quick glance.
How do you turn a cheque to a university in Ireland into cash?Any aid given to a dictator can be easily appropriated and converted to cash.0 -
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Corruption is one of the problems. It's not the main problem. Asking Africans themselves, Afrobarometer even found that African people don't see it as the major problem, though it is one that cuts across more pressing issues.
The main problem is exploitation within and by the global capitalist system. First it was the slave trade, then it was colonialism, now it's globalisation. Africa is the only continent that has gotten poorer. Why? Because rich countries have prised open their markets to exploitation by rich countries through bilateral strong-arming, the WTO, the EU, and through war. You say Africa's problem is the need to develop more liberal economies? Africa is the most liberalised continent in the world - all this has done is resulted in crashing commodity prices and the dumping of cheap rubbish we don't want which crowds out the development of indigenous business and industry. And what exports they do own and produce themselves are blocked out of rich country markets through insane import tariffs and hidden trade barriers like hygine EU standards. And all this is supposed to happen in a world where the IMF, World Bank and individual countries encourage developing countries to take on enormous debts to develop, yet the policies they are forced to adopt cause even further economic collapse and poverty among people. But jobs don't matter so much to those dying of AIDS, particularly women, who have no power in society - a major cause of AIDS transmission. Some of this is caused by internicine, regional and international conflicts, sometimes genocide, where rape is used as a military weapon by armies and militias with scant military supplies. So even if a generation of Africans forget the scars of the past, and the effects these have had on the social, political and cultural realities for African peoples, there are plenty more scars in the making. And how can a continent truly rescue itself without being able to hope?
I spend a year studing 'good governance' - good management by governments is needed. But 'good governance' is a neoliberal concept, in effect the extension of 'structural adjustment' policies which only deepened the continent's nightmare.
We're so concerned about where 'our money' goes, conveniently overlooking the fact that much if it is actually Africa's money, which those in rich countries (and their agents in Africa whom *they corrupted*) stole from them.
Don't believe me? The Swiss agreed that much of Sani Abacha's stolen billions should be *repatriated* to the people of Nigeria.
Africa is a rich continent. It's just that we're stealing the wealth.
And here's a little know story about anti-corruption efforts by a community in Uganda: one year it was discovered around 87% of government grants to primary schools were going missing - being siphoned off by local strongmen and politicians. The locals went to the Dept of Education, and told the local press. Together, they agreed to publish all money coming and going in the village hall and in all newspapers, naming and shaming corrupt individuals. The situation reversed: only 7% went missing. And in that environment, that's incredible.
Who exactly is WE?, when you refer to we're stealing the wealth.
Because I for one have never stolen a single poxy thing in my life and it wasn't all that long ago that Irish people had to emigrate in their droves to
make a better life for themselves.
Do you mean the British or French or Dutch or Americans etc etc.
If so, what has that got to do with us Irish?
We're are the people who are giving 800+ million in
foreign aid and being asked to simply accept it because we are
so very wealthy blah blah blah...
The majority in Ireland are NOT wealthy, yet they are the ones being asked
to continually increase their donations to Africa.
And who is increasing and signing the cheques?
Yes, the poxy rich people....
And don't get me bleedin started on South Africa
World Rugby champions, hosts of the 2010 world cup.
Diamond mines and serious wealth and power and we are
over there building townships???
Crazy crazy situation.
If that doesn't tell you something0 -
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Who exactly is WE?, when you refer to we're stealing the wealth.
Because I for one have never stolen a single poxy thing in my life and it wasn't all that long ago that Irish people had to emigrate in their droves to
make a better life for themselves.
Do you mean the British or French or Dutch or Americans etc etc.
If so, what has that got to do with us Irish?
We're are the people who are giving 800+ million in
foreign aid and being asked to simply accept it because we are
so very wealthy blah blah blah...
The majority in Ireland are NOT wealthy, yet they are the ones being asked
to continually increase their donations to Africa.
And who is increasing and signing the cheques?
Yes, the poxy rich people....
And don't get me bleedin started on South Africa
World Rugby champions, hosts of the 2010 world cup.
Diamond mines and serious wealth and power and we are
over there building townships???
Crazy crazy situation.
If that doesn't tell you something
We in Ireland are participating in a global system of exploitation. Have you ever given thought to whether corrupt transactions are laundered through the IFSC in Dublin? Or whether the food you buy in shops - coffee, sugar etc. - is produced by people paid a pittance, or by children. Do you drive? Perhaps you buy your petrol in Shell, or Exxon, companies which are known to abuse human rights. The list goes on.If so, what has that got to do with us Irish?
Majority of Irish people aren't wealthy? Not wealthy in relation to African people?
Average GDP per person in Ireland: $38,827
Average GDP per person in Botswana: $9,945
Average GDP per person in Sierra Leone: $561
I don't dispute that poverty is in part a relative phenomenon (1-in-5 people are at risk of poverty in Ireland). But to fully appreciate these figures, it's worth looking at the rates of inequality. In Ireland, the richest 10% owns 27% of the wealth; in Botswana (one of Africa's better performers), the richest 10% owns 57% of the wealth. So, compared to Ireland, most in Botswana are much, much poorer than the average in Ireland.
Globalisation means we are responsible for the effects of our choices thousands of miles away. We are therefore at risk from the effects of our choices thousands of miles away. But worst of all, our choices are affecting the world's most vulnerable people thousands of miles away.
Regardless of your comments, this is the moral argument for international development co-operation. It is we who also have to change.0
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