"Genius"

blueandgreen

lucyburn: those people may well have given you joy but that was not the question posed by the OP. The discussion concerns genius

lucyburn

Keyzer wrote: »

You're joking right ???

You should be shot for this statement...

Why?
These are my favourite artists, so if you don't like that, its not my problem.

grumpytrousers

lucyburn wrote: »

Why?
These are my favourite artists, so if you don't like that, its not my problem.

yes yes yes, but the thread isn't called 'list your favourite artists' now is it?

Hey - i'll be the first in line to defend Girls Aloud as being one of the finest 'pop' groups around in terms of production values'n'stuff; i mean, it's not Radiohead, but in the vein of 'girl group' stuff they're rightfully mentioned in the same sentences as The Supremes, Bananrama or whatever.

But even themselves, i'd wager, would hesitate at calling them 'genius'. As for the others you listed...

Tzetze

Cornelius! (see sig)
Thom Yorke
Tom Waits
JS Bach
Sigur Rós
Roger Waters
Kraftwerk
Philip Glass
John Coltrane
Miles Davis
Lennon & McCartney
John Martyn
Jaco Pastorius
Vic Wooten
Henry Mancini

Edit: forgot to mention Captain Beefheart

Declan A Walsh

Ok, here is a list of people who I believe are musical geniuses, because of their songwriting or musical or performing abilities, or maybe a combination of all of these. This does not mean they are necessarily my favourite artistes, which in any event is an impossible task for me - there's so much stuff out there that I have liked over the years. On the other hand, some of my favourite artists I would admit lack the "genius" aspect. Some of the examples given below I would not habitually listen to at all or even like, but they qualify as "genius". In other words, I'm trying very hard to give an objective assessment.

Anyway here goes:
Bob Dylan,
The Beatles (as an entity),
John Lennon,
Paul McCartney,
George Harrison,
Prince,
Michael Jackson,
Peter Gabriel,
Ian Curtis,
New Order (as a group),
Elvis Presley,
Chuck Berry,
James Brown,
Marvin Gaye,
James Galway,
Mike Oldfield,
Roger Waters,
Pete Townsend,
Willie Nelson,
Johnny Cash,
John Williams (guitarist, e.g. composer of "Cavatina" from The Deerhunter -
not to be confused with film score composer John Williams),
Yehudi Menuhin (violinist),
10cc (under its original lineup of Stewart, Gouldman, Godley and Creme),
Glenn Tilbrook and Chris Difford (writers of vast majority of songs by Squeeze),
Muddy Waters,
The Band,
Mozart,
Beethoven,
Suzanne Vega,
Nancy Griffiths

... has to be more women geniuses surely.

lucyburn

blueandgreen wrote: »

lucyburn: those people may well have given you joy but that was not the question posed by the OP. The discussion concerns genius

So your trying to tell me that Madonna and Kylie are not geniuses, you obviously know very little about real music.

m83

I'm disappointed not to see Stevie Wonder in so many lists. Listen to his Best of and you'll be amazed. I've no doubt whatsoever that he is a true musical genius.

lordgoat

Ian Anderson, if no one has mentioned him

Bubs101

lucyburn wrote: »

So your trying to tell me that Madonna and Kylie are not geniuses, you obviously know very little about real music.

Kylie is most certainly not a genius but Madonna is Grade-A top tier genius. Up their with Dylan and McCartney

Declan A Walsh

Here's a few more geniuses in my opinion:
Brian Wilson of The Beachboys - the brains of the band in the '60s - creator of the album "Pet Sounds" amongst other things.
Jimi Hendrix - gifted guitarist and performer.

'Ol Jack Chance

lucyburn wrote: »

They might not be your cup of tea but those artists have given me so much joy over the years.

just curious what age are you? i remember when i was young rap music was the best the music world had to offer. grew out of it still like some old skool rap. i think everyone has there own definition of genius personally id advise listening to some of the musicians people have been mentioning. music is all about expanding your horizons imo

TelePaul

Warren Zevon
Joe Strummer
Springsteen
Tom Waits
Adam Durritz

Pj!

Brendan Kilkenny

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

síofra

joni mitchell, eva cassidy !!!!!

Declan A Walsh

Forky wrote: »

Brendan Kilkenny

That has to be tongue in cheek!

I saw Brendan Kilkenny peforming "live" at more than one social function for an adventure-oriented sports club I was in. Basically, he grabbed the mike at some stage of the evening and proceeded to do a medley of 70's pop, the likes of "Save All Your Kisses for Me" by The Brotherhood of Man! To say that he could not sing would be an insult to crows! Eventually, he would be ejected from the stage back to his table, where he had been quietly enjoying the night. Not that it was easy for him to blend into the background... what with his flowing blonde locks and his "Miami Vice" style of clothes! He turned up on some of the TV talent shows - I think "Pop Idol" was one of them. He featured amongst the funny and/or odd applicants at the beginning! Anyone remember his judo kick, which also was part of his stage act?! I think he was on "You're A Star" as well with the exact same routine.

Brendan Kilkenny also turned up on "The Late Late Show" in the audience, on an item about American ladies looking for Irishmen. He availed of the opportunity to plug one of his many network clubs he had on the go. He was to advertise one of his clubs on the newspaper by referring to his goodself "as seen on The Late Late Show"!!

Oh, yes! I nearly forgot... Brendan also dabbled in pirate radio in the late 90's - most notably Heartbeat FM and Choice FM (not the temporary-licenced station of recent years). Actually, that was a medium that seemed to suit him.

So, in summary, a genius for publicity, an eccentric : definitely!
But a musical genius.... come on!

Returning to topic: other geniuses (again in my opinion):
Jim Morrison,
Peter Green (former member of Fleetwood Mac),
Frank Sinatra (as a performer and interpreter of songs)

Bob in Belfast

Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Joe Strummer and Paul Simon.

almidonado

Can't believe that I forgot/nobody else mentioned Syd Barrett.

Piper at the Gates of Dawn is still mindblowing.

MagicMarker

Roger Waters
Dave Gilmore
Jeff Buckley
Jimmy Page
Robert Plant
John Paul Jones
John Bonham
Matt Bellamy
Eric Clapton
Freddie Mercury
Lennon & McCartney

MagicMarker

lucyburn wrote: »

Girls Aloud
Spice Girls
Take That
Shane Ward
Kylie
Madonna

The question is who would you consider to be a genius, not talentless.

No offence, but that is laughable. It's fair enough you like these 'artists', i like a few of them myself. But it's a joke to think that Shane Ward is up there with the likes of The Beatles, i mean come on! Surely you must see that?

grumpytrousers

TelePaul wrote: »

Warren Zevon

Oooh...forgot about Warren...for those of the parish who are going 'WHO?'...and i suspect there's plenty, you could do worse than chuck a few bob at his best of. although he never made it 'big' himself, his albums were always noteworthy by the calibre of guest artists backing him up 'cos they all reckoned he had 'it'...without resorting to sleevenotes, i know there was definitely all of R.E.M. (with whom he did an album under the monicker Hindu Love Gods') Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young and (wait for it) David Letterman...

As his best of is called Genius i think he fits the bill!

Doctor J

To everyone bitching about Lucyburn's selection, never forget that a lot of the more fashionably trendy artists that have been bandied out here mean nothing and hold no appeal to millions of people outside of Mojo subscribers. Is it even possible for something as deeply personal as musical taste to be quantified in such a way for the term genius to be applied? There are more people who don't know Tom Waits, for example, than those who know his work and even less who like him. Sure, Zappa put out a lot of music but how many people find it listenable? Is dischordant music genius or is the creation and manipulation of catchy melodies with mass popular appeal where the real genius lies? So Thom Yorke doesn't like writing the kind of songs which made his band rich anymore and afforded him the opportunity to make the music he currently makes, is that what makes him a genius? TBH, in an industry as ficcle as pop music, longevity the likes of Kylie and Madonna have enjoyed isn't a happy accident and both artists music has evolved and grown as time has gone on. That's no mean feat and it's just petty musical snobbery that doesn't allow people to see the merits of out and out pop, regardless of the marketing behind it. Is genius being clever at the expense of musicality or is it connecting with people? Is it 30 years of glorious obscurity or a one hit wonder which makes someone happy?

Genius, in my opinion, is music that connects with someone, that really means something to someone and it doesn't matter what genre or how many superstar producers were wheeled in to manipulate it, if it really means something positive to someone, then who here is in a position to question it? Kylie does very little for me outside of a visual medium but just because I don't get her music doesn't mean it can't mean heaven and earth to someone else. My own views of musical genius will, no doubt, conflict with others but who is anyone to tell me that someone whose music is a work of genius to me not a genius just because they haven't been featured by Mojo magazine or some other panel of industry know-it-alls looking to smugly outdo each other with the most obscue dead songwriter they found a crackly old LP of? There's genius in Morrissey for coming up with the line "It says nothing to me about my life"

Anyway, enough of the rant. To me, musical genius in my life =

Tony Iommi
Jimi Hendrix
Bernard Edwards & Nile Rodgers
Keith Moon
Old Dirty Bastard
Esbjorn Svensson
Weather Report
John McLoughlin
The Beatles
Brian Wilson
Tom G Fischer
Chuck Schuldiner
Sean Reinert
Jools Holland
Richie Edwards
That guy who wrote Whats-A-Matter You?
The bass player from Kool And The Gang
James Jamerson and the rest of the Funk Brothers

and so many more and if you disagree, you're wrong, this is my life and they're some of the musicians who've really enhanced it with their music so, yes, I feel it appropriate calling each one a genius

Rigsby

To DoctorJ :

Granted everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the "Spice Girls".......... geniuses !!

geuro

Charlie Lownoise and Mental Theo
Lisa Lashes
The Sound Crowd
Dogstar
Rolf Harris

Doctor J

Rigsby wrote: »

To DoctorJ :

Granted everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the "Spice Girls".......... geniuses !!

Yeah, I hear ya, but I don't think she should be shot for saying it

Da Bounca

geuro wrote: »

Rolf Harris

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s9vhhsZ4s8

Earthhorse

Doctor J wrote: »

To everyone bitching about Lucyburn's selection, never forget that a lot of the more fashionably trendy artists that have been bandied out here mean nothing and hold no appeal to millions of people outside of Mojo subscribers. Is it even possible for something as deeply personal as musical taste to be quantified in such a way for the term genius to be applied? There are more people who don't know Tom Waits, for example, than those who know his work and even less who like him. Sure, Zappa put out a lot of music but how many people find it listenable? Is dischordant music genius or is the creation and manipulation of catchy melodies with mass popular appeal where the real genius lies? So Thom Yorke doesn't like writing the kind of songs which made his band rich anymore and afforded him the opportunity to make the music he currently makes, is that what makes him a genius? TBH, in an industry as ficcle as pop music, longevity the likes of Kylie and Madonna have enjoyed isn't a happy accident and both artists music has evolved and grown as time has gone on. That's no mean feat and it's just petty musical snobbery that doesn't allow people to see the merits of out and out pop, regardless of the marketing behind it. Is genius being clever at the expense of musicality or is it connecting with people? Is it 30 years of glorious obscurity or a one hit wonder which makes someone happy?

Genius, in my opinion, is music that connects with someone, that really means something to someone and it doesn't matter what genre or how many superstar producers were wheeled in to manipulate it, if it really means something positive to someone, then who here is in a position to question it? Kylie does very little for me outside of a visual medium but just because I don't get her music doesn't mean it can't mean heaven and earth to someone else. My own views of musical genius will, no doubt, conflict with others but who is anyone to tell me that someone whose music is a work of genius to me not a genius just because they haven't been featured by Mojo magazine or some other panel of industry know-it-alls looking to smugly outdo each other with the most obscue dead songwriter they found a crackly old LP of? There's genius in Morrissey for coming up with the line "It says nothing to me about my life"

Anyway, enough of the rant. To me, musical genius in my life =

Tony Iommi
Jimi Hendrix
Bernard Edwards & Nile Rodgers
Keith Moon
Old Dirty Bastard
Esbjorn Svensson
Weather Report
John McLoughlin
The Beatles
Brian Wilson
Tom G Fischer
Chuck Schuldiner
Sean Reinert
Jools Holland
Richie Edwards
That guy who wrote Whats-A-Matter You?
The bass player from Kool And The Gang
James Jamerson and the rest of the Funk Brothers

and so many more and if you disagree, you're wrong, this is my life and they're some of the musicians who've really enhanced it with their music so, yes, I feel it appropriate calling each one a genius

WRONG!

Quality

Fleetwood Mac!!!

cornbb

Doctor J wrote: »

Genius, in my opinion, is music that connects with someone, that really means something to someone and it doesn't matter what genre or how many superstar producers were wheeled in to manipulate it, if it really means something positive to someone, then who here is in a position to question it? Kylie does very little for me outside of a visual medium but just because I don't get her music doesn't mean it can't mean heaven and earth to someone else. My own views of musical genius will, no doubt, conflict with others but who is anyone to tell me that someone whose music is a work of genius to me not a genius just because they haven't been featured by Mojo magazine or some other panel of industry know-it-alls looking to smugly outdo each other with the most obscue dead songwriter they found a crackly old LP of? There's genius in Morrissey for coming up with the line "It says nothing to me about my life"

A very well thought-out post and a valid opinion, but I disagree I don't think genius is subjective. For an artist to be considered a "genius" there should be a) a large amount of consensus and b) some very obvious signs of genius.

Firstly, there must be a distinction between talent/virtuosity and genius. Most people can learn virtuosity and become an amazing musician. But the skill there is mostly mechanical. I think genius is something that someone is born with. I could name hundreds of amazingly talented musicians/composers but can only think of a handful of composers that I would consider to be geniuses (genii??). I think Jimi Hendrix was an amazingly talented musician and I love his music but I don't think he was a genius. I think Frank Zappa and John Cage were geniuses even though I don't particularly like a lot of their music. Other geniuses: JS Bach, Mozart, Aphex Twin. Genius bands/collectives, if there is such a thing, might include Pink Floyd, the Velvet Underground, the Doors, Led Zeppelin and Radiohead. I don't think the Spice Girls could be considered genius under any stretch of the imagination.

Doctor J

And I would look at The Doors, Aphex Twin, Radiohead, Pink Floyd etc and marvel at what you see in them to justify genius status. Some good tunes in there, but genius? I don't see it. Don't get me wrong, I don't for a minute think the Spice Girls are collectively or individually anything above mediocre, what I'm getting at is the term of genius and where the justification in it lies. The girl participated in the discussion with her own opinion and she was attacked in a disgusting fashion here, but who among us has the definitive say on who or what constitutes musical genius? Surely staggering record sales and continually sold out public performances is a large public consensus? No? What is a sign of genius? Nobody has, as yet defined what constitutes a musical genius here. Can it even be defined in black and white terms?